EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[Timbo]

Well....except that the 6 Nations aren’t coming up though. They’re over 2 months away. IF it is a fracture, it would have to be a particularly complicated one to keep him out for even part of the 6 Nations.

Well sure, it's also just pure speculation. We are certainly due our yearly pre 6N injury crisis though.

...which we deserve for overplaying our players- hardly a coincidence

I guess my point would be that these ‘injury crises’ are often greatly exaggerated. I do find it annoying in the build up to international windows when every single minor injury, to anyone vaguely English, is reported as a crushing blow.

Last 6 Nations, from memory, we lost Kruis and Robshaw for the duration, Haskell missed a game and Mako and Billy a couple? each. That’s about it. Yet I distinctly remember talk of a crises last year.

[Raggs]

Billy missed most the games, and was started in the Ireland game when perhaps he shouldn't have been.

[fivepointer]

I suppose one could say we've had an injury crisis during the Autumn, being without a number of players, but that really is pretty much routine nowadays. It becomes a crisis when you lose players in the same position and have to dip into your 3rd/4th choice.

[Banquo]

Well sure, it's also just pure speculation. We are certainly due our yearly pre 6N injury crisis though.

...which we deserve for overplaying our players- hardly a coincidence

And over training and having too long a season

yep

[Banquo]

I suppose one could say we've had an injury crisis during the Autumn, being without a number of players, but that really is pretty much routine nowadays. It becomes a crisis when you lose players in the same position and have to dip into your 3rd/4th choice.

True its a normal state, and to be expected, as said above, given workloads.

[Digby]

...which we deserve for overplaying our players- hardly a coincidence

And over training and having too long a season

yep

BOD a few weeks back on the oddity that is contact work in training at English clubs. Worth noting again Muager got kicked out at Leicester in part as he wanted to move them away from contact to a more skills based approach, so it's still part of who we are to run into brick walls and have the more enlightened folk wonder what's wrong with us

[Oakboy]

It always fascinates me that so many talk of 'carriers'. What does that mean? Is a skilful player who runs round a tackler and makes 20 yards a carrier? Or, does it have to be a gym bunny who smashes straight ahead and makes 5 yards? The oft-quoted praise for the latter is that it draws in defenders which bewilders me because the former often commits more. Certainly, IMO, mobility and exploitation of gaps causes more confusion for defenders.

[Timbo]

And over training and having too long a season

yep

BOD a few weeks back on the oddity that is contact work in training at English clubs. Worth noting again Muager got kicked out at Leicester in part as he wanted to move them away from contact to a more skills based approach, so it's still part of who we are to run into brick walls and have the more enlightened folk wonder what's wrong with us

There’s some good insight into how Worcester and Leinster train re contact. Beyond that?

[Puja]

It always fascinates me that so many talk of 'carriers'. What does that mean? Is a skilful player who runs round a tackler and makes 20 yards a carrier? Or, does it have to be a gym bunny who smashes straight ahead and makes 5 yards? The oft-quoted praise for the latter is that it draws in defenders which bewilders me because the former often commits more. Certainly, IMO, mobility and exploitation of gaps causes more confusion for defenders.

The issue is that many a skilful player is only effective when there's space to go around (cf. Wade). Which makes them devastating when the game is broken up, but not much use when the defence is suffocating.

To my mind, a carrier can make ground even when there's bugger all space and they're basically being given the ball and being told, "Go make your own attacking opportunity".

Doesn't necessarily have to be a gym bunny - Simmonds makes ground with most carries through technique and it's something more than a few gym bunnies can't do because they've grown up being able to Hulk smash through people (cf. ZMercer at present). But being big helps a fair bit - there's gaps Simmonds sees that BillyV might not, but there's half-gaps that Billy goes through that Simmonds takes only a couple of metres from.

Puja

[Digby]

Carriers to my way of thinking win contact/collisions. And from that stems a defence just having to edge back and pause before being get off the line, and allows attack and easier option to come around the corner and draw in more defenders. It's not the only way to play, but if don't have carriers you're more reliant on decision making and skill, and we don't do those last two awfully well - the ideal of course is to have it all, but there's normally a tradeoff

[Puja]

Apropos of nothing, is anyone else really pleased that Daly's started playing 11 for Wasps? I've been converted to him being a winger for England by sheer weight of performances, but I'm coming to the conclusion that it's not so much putting a square peg in a round hole as it is that centre was the round hole and wing the square one. He's never looked 100% convincing to me at 13, but watching him on the wing against Leicester he looked every bit the top international returning to grace the lesser stage. Bloody annoying, in fact, and I wish he could've done that against someone else instead.

Hopefully he'll get a good long run there and be even better for playing the position week-in-week-out.

Puja

[Digby]

I'd prefer to see Daly at 15 for Wasps

[Oakboy]

Apropos of nothing, is anyone else really pleased that Daly's started playing 11 for Wasps? I've been converted to him being a winger for England by sheer weight of performances, but I'm coming to the conclusion that it's not so much putting a square peg in a round hole as it is that centre was the round hole and wing the square one. He's never looked 100% convincing to me at 13, but watching him on the wing against Leicester he looked every bit the top international returning to grace the lesser stage. Bloody annoying, in fact, and I wish he could've done that against someone else instead.

Hopefully he'll get a good long run there and be even better for playing the position week-in-week-out.

Puja

I was one who advocated him for the wing role. Initially, I saw him as having real gas, a boot worthy of any top FB and a rugby brain. The last attribute put him way ahead of Roko and Wade, IMO. Now, he is taking his game up a notch with his roaming off the wing. He's not just wandering, he is arriving where it counts in attack and defence. The way that he's adapting and improving indicates to me that there is a lot more to come. I think he's a genuine international quality winger now and I think he'll be top class given another 10/12 games as his self-belief grows.

[Puja]

Apropos of nothing, is anyone else really pleased that Daly's started playing 11 for Wasps? I've been converted to him being a winger for England by sheer weight of performances, but I'm coming to the conclusion that it's not so much putting a square peg in a round hole as it is that centre was the round hole and wing the square one. He's never looked 100% convincing to me at 13, but watching him on the wing against Leicester he looked every bit the top international returning to grace the lesser stage. Bloody annoying, in fact, and I wish he could've done that against someone else instead.

Hopefully he'll get a good long run there and be even better for playing the position week-in-week-out.

Puja

I was one who advocated him for the wing role. Initially, I saw him as having real gas, a boot worthy of any top FB and a rugby brain. The last attribute put him way ahead of Roko and Wade, IMO. Now, he is taking his game up a notch with his roaming off the wing. He's not just wandering, he is arriving where it counts in attack and defence. The way that he's adapting and improving indicates to me that there is a lot more to come. I think he's a genuine international quality winger now and I think he'll be top class given another 10/12 games as his self-belief grows.

You were right and I was completely wrong on him at wing and I'm happy to say it. He does look like he might be able to go all the way to world class if he keeps this up, doesn't he?

I'd prefer to see Daly at 15 for Wasps

For god's sake at least let him play for England there for a bit before we trust him at Was... wait, I think I've got confused.

Puja

[Oakboy]

You were right and I was completely wrong on him at wing and I'm happy to say it.

It's a rarity - more often, the other way round!

[Digby]

For god's sake at least let him play for England there for a bit before we trust him at Was... wait, I think I've got confused.

Puja

I'd like him to get some time there to aid his role at wing in the first instance. If over the next few months I then wanted to put him at 15 and Watson back on the wing then that might happen but it wouldn't be initially be a must or even should happen.

PujaPuja

[twitchy]

Broken jaw and will probably miss the italy game.


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... aw-england

[Which Tyler]

Fractures typically take 6 weeks - though jaws can be tricky buggers as they hang there without taking any impact to stimulating bone growth. You're still looking at 6 weeks for most people - though I guess rugby players are more prone to taking additional trauma there, so you'd want to allow a good 9-10 weeks before returning - though there's still an element that depends on the location of the fracture.

Mind you - if any player is going to exercise his jaw enough to promote healing, it's Itoje - the man just cannot shut up!


As for Daly - he really does look to the wing born doesn't he - just needs game-time to get the positioning and more intinctive aspects of playing there nailed down. If Wasps shift him out one from here on in, he's a chance at becoming "World Class" by the RWC.

[Banquo]

Fractures typically take 6 weeks - though jaws can be tricky buggers as they hang there without taking any impact to stimulating bone growth. You're still looking at 6 weeks for most people - though I guess rugby players are more prone to taking additional trauma there, so you'd want to allow a good 9-10 weeks before returning - though there's still an element that depends on the location of the fracture.

Mind you - if any player is going to exercise his jaw enough to promote healing, it's Itoje - the man just cannot shut up!


As for Daly - he really does look to the wing born doesn't he - just needs game-time to get the positioning and more intinctive aspects of playing there nailed down. If Wasps shift him out one from here on in, he's a chance at becoming "World Class" by the RWC.

8 weeks for me, and you lose a ton of weight if jaw is wired up.

[Which Tyler]

8 weeks for me, and you lose a ton of weight if jaw is wired up.

I'm probably doing you a huge disservice here by even asking this question.
But.
Did you have the motivation of your place in the England rugby team being under threat being dangled before you?

[Mikey Brown]

At least he gets a rest. And we perhaps stop fucking around quite as much with locks at 6?

[Banquo]

8 weeks for me, and you lose a ton of weight if jaw is wired up.

I'm probably doing you a huge disservice here by even asking this question.
But.
Did you have the motivation of your place in the England rugby team being under threat being dangled before you?

no, but my jaw was wired for at least 6 weeks, and they recommended no contact for at least 2 more. As you said, accelerating the healing is nigh impossible, so nothing to do with motivation really. Probably also depends on location of break and severity- I didn't help myself by playing on for an hour til the end of the game, it was so cold the pain didn't really kick in.

[Banquo]

8 weeks for me, and you lose a ton of weight if jaw is wired up.

I'm probably doing you a huge disservice here by even asking this question.
But.
Did you have the motivation of your place in the England rugby team being under threat being dangled before you?

no, but my jaw was wired for at least 6 weeks, and they recommended no contact for at least 2 more. As you said, accelerating the healing is nigh impossible, so nothing to do with motivation really. Probably also depends on location of break and severity- I didn't help myself by playing on for an hour til the end of the game, it was so cold the pain didn't really kick in.

ps...you did also say 9-10 weeks afore playing....so perhaps my motivation was even higher!

[Oakboy]

8 weeks for me, and you lose a ton of weight if jaw is wired up.

I'm probably doing you a huge disservice here by even asking this question.
But.
Did you have the motivation of your place in the England rugby team being under threat being dangled before you?

no, but my jaw was wired for at least 6 weeks, and they recommended no contact for at least 2 more. As you said, accelerating the healing is nigh impossible, so nothing to do with motivation really. Probably also depends on location of break and severity- I didn't help myself by playing on for an hour til the end of the game, it was so cold the pain didn't really kick in.

Wow, did you have to go 2 months without talking?

[Banquo]

I'm probably doing you a huge disservice here by even asking this question.
But.
Did you have the motivation of your place in the England rugby team being under threat being dangled before you?

no, but my jaw was wired for at least 6 weeks, and they recommended no contact for at least 2 more. As you said, accelerating the healing is nigh impossible, so nothing to do with motivation really. Probably also depends on location of break and severity- I didn't help myself by playing on for an hour til the end of the game, it was so cold the pain didn't really kick in.

Wow, did you have to go 2 months without talking?

Lol....but pretty much, yes, and without solids.