EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[Digby]

Tom Wood was highly effective until his foot injury. You can even at the highest levels base a game on work rate almost above all else, but it's just very unusual to be able to maintain that and that sees opportunities arise for the other side when the intensity drops, and for a while Wood could work at a level with a consistency that's seldom seen

[Mellsblue]

Some interesting thoughts on this week’s Times rugby podcast. That Stephen Jones isn’t on it this week is probably only a coincidence...

The thoughts are that Farrell and Ford are the defacto backs/attack coaches. Will Fraser is on saying that Jones will send both away to analyse opppsition defences because they see more than he does. One of the hacks then pipes up that whenever they have open training sessions F&F seem to run most of the backs training.

a) It’s good see the players empowered
b) It’s another reason Jones is so wedded to them both being on the pitch.
c) It would still be good to have a proper backs coach

[Mellsblue]

Tom Wood was highly effective until his foot injury. You can even at the highest levels base a game on work rate almost above all else, but it's just very unusual to be able to maintain that and that sees opportunities arise for the other side when the intensity drops, and for a while Wood could work at a level with a consistency that's seldom seen

It’s funny how subjective these things can be. Supporters of both Robshaw and Wood praise them for almost identical qualities - workrate, reading the game, leadership, number of interventions - yet you can’t bring yourself to like the test match qualities of Robshaw and I correctly wished Wood had never worn an England shirt. Yet we both want the world class Kvesic to get a run in the team.

[Digby]

Tom Wood was highly effective until his foot injury. You can even at the highest levels base a game on work rate almost above all else, but it's just very unusual to be able to maintain that and that sees opportunities arise for the other side when the intensity drops, and for a while Wood could work at a level with a consistency that's seldom seen

It’s funny how subjective these things can be. Supporters of both Robshaw and Wood praise them for almost identical qualities - workrate, reading the game, leadership, number of interventions - yet you can’t bring yourself to like the test match qualities of Robshaw and I correctly wished Wood had never worn an England shirt. Yet we both want the world class Kvesic to get a run in the team.

Again I do like a lot of what Robshaw offers, and I like that still more at 6. I just don't think Robshaw is able to maintain an insane work rate that Wood did have going back six or seven years, and like many of our options Robshaw isn't the most skillful at the breakdown. Some games that matters less when although Robshaw is better the less the ball goes to floor, and the lower he has to work to the more he can be exposed, we're actually able to generate more ball coming off the back of mauls and whatnot and that brings the game more toward Robshaw. Given how many caps Robshaw now has he's also almost worth selection by default, I'd have likely started off differently in where to see that experience getting bestowed, but it is now what it is and he's an admirable player so it's hardly a great evil we're basically forced to select him

[Oakboy]

Some interesting thoughts on this week’s Times rugby podcast. That Stephen Jones isn’t on it this week is probably only a coincidence...

The thoughts are that Farrell and Ford are the defacto backs/attack coaches. Will Fraser is on saying that Jones will send both away to analyse opppsition defences because they see more than he does. One of the hacks then pipes up that whenever they have open training sessions F&F seem to run most of the backs training.

a) It’s good see the players empowered
b) It’s another reason Jones is so wedded to them both being on the pitch.
c) It would still be good to have a proper backs coach

Maybe Eddie should ask whether F & F' s analysis merits continuing with the policy. There are obvious snags with this sort of influence e.g. nobody is in a position to come up with something better, selection is permanently compromised.

I suppose, though, that it explains something about Eddie's stance on Cipriani i.e. that he would only pick him as the starting FH (in other words, if both Fs were absent). Could the camp survive Cips pointing out that the Fs were talking bollix for example?

Your (c) is an absolute requirement, IMO.

[francoisfou]

Tom who?

Tom Wood. Don’t worry if you can’t temember. It’s common for the brain to lock away traumatic experiences from your past.

[Banquo]

Tom who?

Tom Wood. Don’t worry if you can’t temember. It’s common for the brain to lock away traumatic experiences from your past.

This will traumatise you more, and is from Digby's private 'rugby player as castaway' collection

[Which Tyler]

Some interesting thoughts on this week’s Times rugby podcast. That Stephen Jones isn’t on it this week is probably only a coincidence...

The thoughts are that Farrell and Ford are the defacto backs/attack coaches. Will Fraser is on saying that Jones will send both away to analyse opppsition defences because they see more than he does. One of the hacks then pipes up that whenever they have open training sessions F&F seem to run most of the backs training.

a) It’s good see the players empowered
b) It’s another reason Jones is so wedded to them both being on the pitch.
c) It would still be good to have a proper backs coach

Is now the time to bring back Brian Ashton? Do we finally have the players to respond to his training, just a decade too late!

[Mellsblue]

Some interesting thoughts on this week’s Times rugby podcast. That Stephen Jones isn’t on it this week is probably only a coincidence...

The thoughts are that Farrell and Ford are the defacto backs/attack coaches. Will Fraser is on saying that Jones will send both away to analyse opppsition defences because they see more than he does. One of the hacks then pipes up that whenever they have open training sessions F&F seem to run most of the backs training.

a) It’s good see the players empowered
b) It’s another reason Jones is so wedded to them both being on the pitch.
c) It would still be good to have a proper backs coach

Is now the time to bring back Brian Ashton? Do we finally have the players to respond to his training, just a decade too late!

If only. Top top coach.

[Which Tyler]

Some interesting thoughts on this week’s Times rugby podcast. That Stephen Jones isn’t on it this week is probably only a coincidence...

The thoughts are that Farrell and Ford are the defacto backs/attack coaches. Will Fraser is on saying that Jones will send both away to analyse opppsition defences because they see more than he does. One of the hacks then pipes up that whenever they have open training sessions F&F seem to run most of the backs training.

a) It’s good see the players empowered
b) It’s another reason Jones is so wedded to them both being on the pitch.
c) It would still be good to have a proper backs coach

Is now the time to bring back Brian Ashton? Do we finally have the players to respond to his training, just a decade too late!

If only. Top top coach.

Great coach, average manager. Although he also had a coaching style that's the antithesis to the vast majority of modern coaches.

Players don't want to be asked to make their own decisions, to play heads-up, to come up with their own plays. They've been conditioned to want plans and play-books, to know exactly what is expected in any given situation, and phases planned for the first 20 or so.

[Digby]

Tom Wood. Don’t worry if you can’t temember. It’s common for the brain to lock away traumatic experiences from your past.

This will traumatise you more, and is from Digby's private 'rugby player as castaway' collection

I'm more a desert island discs sort. all the same he was a very decent player back around 2011, not George Smith or McCaw level, but any claim he was that good would be laughable

[Digby]

Is now the time to bring back Brian Ashton? Do we finally have the players to respond to his training, just a decade too late!

If only. Top top coach.

Great coach, average manager. Although he also had a coaching style that's the antithesis to the vast majority of modern coaches.

Players don't want to be asked to make their own decisions, to play heads-up, to come up with their own plays. They've been conditioned to want plans and play-books, to know exactly what is expected in any given situation, and phases planned for the first 20 or so.

Great coach if he's got players willing to work with the platform he'll enable

[Banquo]

This will traumatise you more, and is from Digby's private 'rugby player as castaway' collection

I'm more a desert island discs sort. all the same he was a very decent player back around 2011, not George Smith or McCaw level, but any claim he was that good would be laughable

outside his workrate, he was ordinary, especially as a decision maker. One can't cast the work rate aside lightly, I agree, nor his line out work, thinking about it.

[Digby]

outside his workrate, he was ordinary, especially as a decision maker. One can't cast the work rate aside lightly, I agree, nor his line out work, thinking about it.

The extra work rate he showed is also more useful if anyone were ever going to contest a ruck. Now there's even more players sealing off in attack and fanning out in defence it reduces the opportunity to make the extra work count for something, not makes it worth nothing, just shifts the gains/losses some small amount

[fivepointer]

Bath Rugby prop Henry Thomas will join England’s training camp in Portugal to replace Harlequins' Kyle Sinckler who will return to his club.

The Quins prop arrived in Vilamoura yesterday afternoon (Monday) with a possible hamstring strain and is not fit to train.

He will undergo further assessment and treatment with his club this week.

[Timbo]

Some interesting thoughts on this week’s Times rugby podcast. That Stephen Jones isn’t on it this week is probably only a coincidence...

The thoughts are that Farrell and Ford are the defacto backs/attack coaches. Will Fraser is on saying that Jones will send both away to analyse opppsition defences because they see more than he does. One of the hacks then pipes up that whenever they have open training sessions F&F seem to run most of the backs training.

a) It’s good see the players empowered
b) It’s another reason Jones is so wedded to them both being on the pitch.
c) It would still be good to have a proper backs coach

Is now the time to bring back Brian Ashton? Do we finally have the players to respond to his training, just a decade too late!

If only. Top top coach.

Eddie has invited him into camp on a few occasions I believe.

[Puja]

Is now the time to bring back Brian Ashton? Do we finally have the players to respond to his training, just a decade too late!

If only. Top top coach.

Eddie has invited him into camp on a few occasions I believe.

I didn't think Ashton wanted anything more to do with the national team nowadays?

Puja

[Timbo]

Some interesting thoughts on this week’s Times rugby podcast. That Stephen Jones isn’t on it this week is probably only a coincidence...

The thoughts are that Farrell and Ford are the defacto backs/attack coaches. Will Fraser is on saying that Jones will send both away to analyse opppsition defences because they see more than he does. One of the hacks then pipes up that whenever they have open training sessions F&F seem to run most of the backs training.

a) It’s good see the players empowered
b) It’s another reason Jones is so wedded to them both being on the pitch.
c) It would still be good to have a proper backs coach

Interesting. I think good game plans and the discipline of rigidly executing our tactical approach has been one of the hallmarks of the team under Eddie. Conversely, we’ve too often been unable to change things on the field without the intervention of the coaches (a sub or halftime etc.)

[Spiffy]

This will traumatise you more, and is from Digby's private 'rugby player as castaway' collection

I'm more a desert island discs sort. all the same he was a very decent player back around 2011, not George Smith or McCaw level, but any claim he was that good would be laughable

outside his workrate, he was ordinary, especially as a decision maker. One can't cast the work rate aside lightly, I agree, nor his line out work, thinking about it.

Agree with that. But (though I will probably get lynched here) I would say the same about Robshaw. A very solid flanker who consistently plays well at 6, never has a bad day, yet never dominates a game, lights it up with moments of brilliance and lacks the pace of a top backrower.

[Scrumhead]

Sinckler has pulled out of the camp in Portugal with a calf strain.

Williams is a capable enough deputy, but given Kyle’s post-ban form, I was hoping to see him against Italy.

[Scrumhead]

Some interesting thoughts on this week’s Times rugby podcast. That Stephen Jones isn’t on it this week is probably only a coincidence...

The thoughts are that Farrell and Ford are the defacto backs/attack coaches. Will Fraser is on saying that Jones will send both away to analyse opppsition defences because they see more than he does. One of the hacks then pipes up that whenever they have open training sessions F&F seem to run most of the backs training.

a) It’s good see the players empowered
b) It’s another reason Jones is so wedded to them both being on the pitch.
c) It would still be good to have a proper backs coach

Interesting. I think good game plans and the discipline of rigidly executing our tactical approach has been one of the hallmarks of the team under Eddie. Conversely, we’ve too often been unable to change things on the field without the intervention of the coaches (a sub or halftime etc.)

It also occurs to me that we were better in attack when Glen Ella was with the team.

As Mells said, it’s good that the players are empowered, but at the same time, recent evidence suggests we’d be better with a coach to focus on the backs.

[Digby]

It also occurs to me that we were better in attack when Glen Ella was with the team.

As Mells said, it’s good that the players are empowered, but at the same time, recent evidence suggests we’d be better with a coach to focus on the backs.

I'd say team rather backs, and even more than coaching we need to resolve some selection issues

[Timbo]

Eddie says Slade our for 4 weeks, Robshaw and Brown touch and go for Italy and Nowell back for Scotland at best, will know more about Sinckler today but almost certainly out of Italy game. Te’o however, is flying in training.

Definitely the worst Eddie has had in terms of injuries and suspensions.

[Mikey Brown]

I really hope this isn’t a reason to play Solomona, but I guess it will be.

[Timbo]

My guess, from what John Kingston has said, is that Brown and Robshaw will be fit to play by in time for the Italy game.