Jackson & Olding

[hugh_woatmeigh]

And FTR if Ulster rugby were a bastion of sound moral values, transparency and honesty then they probably wouldn't have deliberately released this tidbit of news on a slow traffic Saturday morning after their match once all the journalists had buggered off.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

For the record? For what fecking record? Do you, perhaps, keep a personal record of outrageously sensible decisions that somehow fail to live down to your precious black and white world view?

Ulster Rugby is a business. The IRFU is a business. The decision to sever the contracts of these men was a business decision and so was the timing of the public announcement of that decision.

[BBD]

is it "you always hurt the ones you love?" by the Mills Brothers?

[SerjeantWildgoose]

I'd say that Two Little Boys by Rolf Harris strikes a closer harmony with the Ladism and sexual impropriety of this sorry incident, Cheggers.

[francoisfou]

Jackson could be moving to Clermont Ferrand.

https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-14/2 ... tory.shtml

[SerjeantWildgoose]

So the scenario where PJ returns to Ravenhill wearing the blue and yellow of ASM in next season's Challenge Cup isn't out of the question?

[francoisfou]

So the scenario where PJ returns to Ravenhill wearing the blue and yellow of ASM in next season's Challenge Cup isn't out of the question?

Are you saying, Serj, that Ulster won't qualify for the Champions' Cup?
It must be the first time that Clermont haven't qualified.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

How do the Ulster fanbase feel about this? Appreciate it is not representative of the real population but I have seen very few on social media supporting the decision to sack the lads - including the Ulster fan forum. Which has been offline for a couple of days now. Coincidence?

[Numbers]

Glad they're gone, we don't need this sort of behaviour in society.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

There is talk of protests in support of J & O at the Glasgow game on Saturday. There was, with the exception of one wee girl and her t-shirt, no visible protest in support of them at the Ospreys game on Friday, though there was a vocal picket of local feminists outside the stadium.

One or two former Ulster players have made public statements of support, but these have been more than balanced by other Irish veterans and the majority of our respected rugby journalists who have taken the view that the IRFU had little option but to take the action it did and that this is a reasonable response to the circumstances.

[BBD]

Clermont aren't having a great season, languishing in the lower half of the table, but they have fanatical home support and if PJ manages to perform there they will adore him and ignore his past transgressions.

Theres a full spectrum of views across a variety of different groups.
Ulster fans, Irish rugby fans, general public who are interested, groups campaigning for political and or social change
so its impossible to pin a nice convenient label and say "Ulster fans think this" As soon as I put it down there'd be someone correcting it and pointing out the variation or disagreement.

This whole process has been a massive point of debate, that for legal reasons had a big lid on prior to the court case, since the verdict its all gone a bit mental tbh but it will calm eventually. Both players will find new employers and the IRFU have been careful to not close the door entirely, whether thats because of a negative backlash if they did or theres a genuine chance they could return at some point remains to be seen

[SerjeantWildgoose]

So the scenario where PJ returns to Ravenhill wearing the blue and yellow of ASM in next season's Challenge Cup isn't out of the question?

Are you saying, Serj, that Ulster won't qualify for the Champions' Cup?
It must be the first time that Clermont haven't qualified.

I think there is a chance that Ulster won’t make it into the Chamions Cup. It’s between them and Cardiff for the 7th spot I think and while Ulster have 2 points and a game in hand, they have a couple of tough games to round off the regular season. Even without all of this distraction, they wouldn’t be confident of getting much out of Glasgow and a trip to Thomond Park.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

I think that ASM’s problems this season stem from Lopez’ injury in October and the lack of a fly half able to get their prodigiously talented backs moving. PJ would offer them a superb alternative but in the work up to a World Cup and the national side struggling to find a reliable and consistent out half will PJ simply be a bench-warmer for Cammy? Is this a judicial move by ASM to keep him out of another T14 squad?

[BBD]

Ive just been reading that Ulster supporters club are balloting their membership to find out if there is sufficient anger at the decision for a protest at the next game vs Glasgow, boycotts and a late arrival are two of teh suggestions

Mind you the late arrival could be achieved if they simply offered two for one on curry chip, the queues would be enormous!

[Numbers]

Ive just been reading that Ulster supporters club are balloting their membership to find out if there is sufficient anger at the decision for a protest at the next game vs Glasgow, boycotts and a late arrival are two of teh suggestions

Mind you the late arrival could be achieved if they simply offered two for one on curry chip, the queues would be enormous!

What the fuck are they complaining about? Do they think that the behaviour shown by these players is in anyway acceptable?

This is a reflection on the attitude of some rugby supporters, and not a good one.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Calm down Numbers! Between you and Hughie we could end up with this place looking like the Syria thread.

I think, in answer to your question, its just that these Ulster folk like to say 'No!" given any opportunity.

[Numbers]

Calm down Numbers! Between you and Hughie we could end up with this place looking like the Syria thread.

I think, in answer to your question, its just that these Ulster folk like to say 'No!" given any opportunity.

Serge, I'm severely affronted by the sheer temerity of these people to protest that Jackson and Olding should be re-instated, as any decent human being would be.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

There is talk of protests in support of J & O at the Glasgow game on Saturday. There was, with the exception of one wee girl and her t-shirt, no visible protest in support of them at the Ospreys game on Friday, though there was a vocal picket of local feminists outside the stadium.

One or two former Ulster players have made public statements of support, but these have been more than balanced by other Irish veterans and the majority of our respected rugby journalists who have taken the view that the IRFU had little option but to take the action it did and that this is a reasonable response to the circumstances.

Not ticket holders then? That's a surprise.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

You and me alike, Big Fella, but they won't be reinstated so no need to get too angry about it. And to be honest, Ulster fans are such a bunch of anti-social ballixes anyway; what difference would this make?

[SerjeantWildgoose]

There is talk of protests in support of J & O at the Glasgow game on Saturday. There was, with the exception of one wee girl and her t-shirt, no visible protest in support of them at the Ospreys game on Friday, though there was a vocal picket of local feminists outside the stadium.

One or two former Ulster players have made public statements of support, but these have been more than balanced by other Irish veterans and the majority of our respected rugby journalists who have taken the view that the IRFU had little option but to take the action it did and that this is a reasonable response to the circumstances.

Not ticket holders then? That's a surprise.

No, not ticket holders. Likely that none of them had ever set foot in a rugby stadium or club in their lives. But that does not invalidate their view. This wasn't ever about behaviour inside a rugby stadium, was it?

[Numbers]

You and me alike, Big Fella, but they won't be reinstated so no need to get too angry about it. And to be honest, Ulster fans are such a bunch of anti-social ballixes anyway; what difference would this make?

Fair enough.

[BBD]

I'll answer, but remember, Im reporting the views of others as I see them, I dont necessarily agree with their views, so I'd appreciate it if you could tone it down as Im liable to over react and call you a digit or something

Several angles to their complaint, from different sources so they dont necessarily all make joined up sense

1) The jury found them not guilty and the presumption of innocence therefore stands
2) That leaves their conduct on the night and the texts
3) They were in their own time not on company business/time
4) Consensual group sex is not a crime and in a country that is easing itself away at increasing speed from the yoke of catholic grip upon morality/education/healthcare/sex etc what goes on in the privacy of someones home between consenting adults is nobodies business
5) That leaves the texts which firstly was a private circle of people and only became public knowledge because of the trial - circle back to point 1)
6) secondly PJ only made one derogatory comment that was that there was a lot of spit roast last night, Stuart Olding made a few, and generally worse comments on the WhatsApp group, whilst Craig Gilroy who wasn't there on the night also made some derogatory comments and so far hasn't been mentioned as facing any kind of discipline.
7) theres other bits of pedantry about the terms "spit roast" - its a descriptive term of the act in question, and "sluts" - the victim herself said in a text to her friend the morning after that the other girls there were acting "slutty" so why is ok for her to use the term and not PJ/SO/CG
8) The power of sponsors, especially the Bank of Ireland preaching morality is also a sticking point for many given their history - But this one is teh one thats hardest to gain traction on because Ulsters accounts show they made 12-16 million euros from sponsorship last year and only 3million euros on gate receipts
9) Theres also some who are still pissed off at losing Ruan Pienaar and the increase in price of a curry chip


The whole thing is a minefield

[Digby]

in a country that is easing itself away at increasing speed from the yoke of catholic grip upon morality/education/healthcare/sex etc what goes on in the privacy of someones home between consenting adults is nobodies business

We know some demand the right to be under a protestant moralising grip, catholics be damned!

[SerjeantWildgoose]

... whilst Craig Gilroy who wasn't there on the night also made some derogatory comments and so far hasn't been mentioned as facing any kind of discipline.

... increase in price of a curry chip


The whole thing is a minefield

Gilroy has been suspended until April the 26th - effectively allowing him to complete his suspension and still get a run out before the end of the season.

We are waiting for the findings of the RHI inquiry but it is expected that the increase in the price of a curry chip will be put down to Arlene who was Minster for Curry Chip and The Ulster-Scots Fry way back in the early days of there being no Assembly at Stormont.

And I don't care if it is your fecking field, its my traditional route and I'm marching over it.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

in a country that is easing itself away at increasing speed from the yoke of catholic grip upon morality/education/healthcare/sex etc what goes on in the privacy of someones home between consenting adults is nobodies business

We know some demand the right to be under a protestant moralising grip, catholics be damned!

I have been practicing my waist-down Catholic moralising grip throughout my entire adulthood. I am quite determined that there shall be no hard border restricting my freedom to do so post-BREXIT, though I would be happy if such a barrier were put somewhere down the Irish Sea as I have found Cumbrian women to be a substantial impediment to my gripping activities.