Newcastle v Sale Fri 7.45

[Digby]

He had a great game, but I'm a bit conflicted about a guy who sent another player for a HIA, by punching him in the back of the head, twice, whilst he was on the floor, getting MoTM.

In Graham's defence, it wasn't like Curry was just lying there not doing anything. He was clinging onto Graham's leg for dear life to stop him from getting back into the line. While I don't condone it, I can certainly understand why Graham gave him a couple of cuffs to the back of the head.

Puja

I really do struggle to understand this response or the suggested leniency in it Vs say your response to the allegations made against Solomona. For me this would be much worse

[Puja]

He had a great game, but I'm a bit conflicted about a guy who sent another player for a HIA, by punching him in the back of the head, twice, whilst he was on the floor, getting MoTM.

In Graham's defence, it wasn't like Curry was just lying there not doing anything. He was clinging onto Graham's leg for dear life to stop him from getting back into the line. While I don't condone it, I can certainly understand why Graham gave him a couple of cuffs to the back of the head.

Puja

I really do struggle to understand this response or the suggested leniency in it Vs say your response to the allegations made against Solomona. For me this would be much worse

At the risk of opening the can of worms again, use of a bigoted slur against a societally discriminated minority by someone in the socially privileged majority is bad because it's the powerful picking on the weak (regardless of Shillcock's sexuality - cause it was public and said by a public figure, use of the slur goes beyond the immediate target). Graham slapping at a grown man who is holding his leg and then upgrading that to a punch when his leg still isn't released - well, it's not good, but you also can't say it was the powerful attacking the weak. Curry could have not held onto his leg, could've let go of the leg after the first slap, etc.

In short, while Graham was literally punching down, at least he wasn't figuratively punching down*.

I'd also take a moment to note that I'm not suggesting Graham's action is okay in the slightest - just that there was provocation and it's not the same as if he'd just punched a prone player out of nowhere who had no reason to expect imminent violence. Still should get a ban though, which might rule him out of South Africa. Newcastle have three games left and four if they win the Euro semi-final, so a four week ban will be touch and go.

Puja


*Yes, I did construct that answer specifically so that I could make that pun.

[Digby]

In Graham's defence, it wasn't like Curry was just lying there not doing anything. He was clinging onto Graham's leg for dear life to stop him from getting back into the line. While I don't condone it, I can certainly understand why Graham gave him a couple of cuffs to the back of the head.

Puja

I really do struggle to understand this response or the suggested leniency in it Vs say your response to the allegations made against Solomona. For me this would be much worse

At the risk of opening the can of worms again, use of a bigoted slur against a societally discriminated minority by someone in the socially privileged majority is bad because it's the powerful picking on the weak (regardless of Shillcock's sexuality - cause it was public and said by a public figure, use of the slur goes beyond the immediate target). Graham slapping at a grown man who is holding his leg and then upgrading that to a punch when his leg still isn't released - well, it's not good, but you also can't say it was the powerful attacking the weak. Curry could have not held onto his leg, could've let go of the leg after the first slap, etc.

In short, while Graham was literally punching down, at least he wasn't figuratively punching down*.

I'd also take a moment to note that I'm not suggesting Graham's action is okay in the slightest - just that there was provocation and it's not the same as if he'd just punched a prone player out of nowhere who had no reason to expect imminent violence. Still should get a ban though, which might rule him out of South Africa. Newcastle have three games left and four if they win the Euro semi-final, so a four week ban will be touch and go.

Puja


*Yes, I did construct that answer specifically so that I could make that pun.

He should be out of SA, punches like that can kill. Which to me is worse than any insult and I'd expect a long ban. Yes he was held, yes I'd like to see them take action on such, but you can't escalate to striking the back of the head

[Puja]

I really do struggle to understand this response or the suggested leniency in it Vs say your response to the allegations made against Solomona. For me this would be much worse

At the risk of opening the can of worms again, use of a bigoted slur against a societally discriminated minority by someone in the socially privileged majority is bad because it's the powerful picking on the weak (regardless of Shillcock's sexuality - cause it was public and said by a public figure, use of the slur goes beyond the immediate target). Graham slapping at a grown man who is holding his leg and then upgrading that to a punch when his leg still isn't released - well, it's not good, but you also can't say it was the powerful attacking the weak. Curry could have not held onto his leg, could've let go of the leg after the first slap, etc.

In short, while Graham was literally punching down, at least he wasn't figuratively punching down*.

I'd also take a moment to note that I'm not suggesting Graham's action is okay in the slightest - just that there was provocation and it's not the same as if he'd just punched a prone player out of nowhere who had no reason to expect imminent violence. Still should get a ban though, which might rule him out of South Africa. Newcastle have three games left and four if they win the Euro semi-final, so a four week ban will be touch and go.

Puja


*Yes, I did construct that answer specifically so that I could make that pun.

He should be out of SA, punches like that can kill. Which to me is worse than any insult and I'd expect a long ban. Yes he was held, yes I'd like to see them take action on such, but you can't escalate to striking the back of the head

A one off violent incident vs participating in and perpetuating a culture of discrimination and hatred that can also kill. Both bad and hard to compare the two - probably best not to even try.

Has anyone got video of the incident? I only saw it when the replay was shown during the game and can't seem to find it anywhere on the interwebs. Didn't seem that bad to me on initial look, but given it's clearly got people here riled up I suspect I may have not seen it properly.

Puja

[Digby]

It's not that bad as punches go, but it only takes a punch hitting in an unlucky fashion for it to be enough. And I've never known words kill.

[Puja]

It's not that bad as punches go, but it only takes a punch hitting in an unlucky fashion for it to be enough. And I've never known words kill.

Words themselves are physically unlikely to kill (unless they are Muad'Dib). The attitudes they instill and perpetuate often do.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

It's not that bad as punches go, but it only takes a punch hitting in an unlucky fashion for it to be enough. And I've never known words kill.

Words themselves are physically unlikely to kill (unless they are Muad'Dib). The attitudes they instill and perpetuate often do.

Puja

Yep. It’s one of the theories behind the spike in gang killings in London. Not that I expect a spike in gay hate crime in Salford!!

[Puja]

It's not that bad as punches go, but it only takes a punch hitting in an unlucky fashion for it to be enough. And I've never known words kill.

Words themselves are physically unlikely to kill (unless they are Muad'Dib). The attitudes they instill and perpetuate often do.

Puja

Yep. It’s one of the theories behind the spike in gang killings in London. Not that I expect a spike in gay hate crime in Salford!!

Sadly, I think it's high enough right now that Solomona's (alleged) contribution wouldn't do anything to push it up. It's more a case of being a detriment to pushing it down.

Anyway, we have discussed this to death on many threads, so let's leave Drunkie Dennie's antics to one side for a bit and talk about the game. It was a hell of an atmosphere from the crowd. Their average attendance this year (excluding St James's Park and Philadelphia) is 7,700, but that felt like a full house and a very noisy one at that. Hopefully that's some of the SJP supporters coming back, given that was pretty much the perfect game to lure them to return on a regular basis.

Puja

[Digby]

It's not that bad as punches go, but it only takes a punch hitting in an unlucky fashion for it to be enough. And I've never known words kill.

Words themselves are physically unlikely to kill (unless they are Muad'Dib). The attitudes they instill and perpetuate often do.

Puja

If words can perpetuate violence then violence can perpetuate violence too, decide for yourself if that's unequal or leaves them pari passu. I'd suggest (whilst having no issue if action is taken in the case or words) that the words in the instance on the pitch are not as threatening.

[Oakboy]

Cracking game. I did not expect that degree of excitement. That was the first time I'd seen Graham play. I can see why Eddie likes him. Basically, he's Armand with an extra few yards of pace.

Is it just me, or was his defence a little suspect?

I did not see evidence of that but you may be right. He did get well stuck in with some last ditch tackles near his own line. That indicated excellent commitment physically. Were you referring more to technique or positioning?

[Stom]

Cracking game. I did not expect that degree of excitement. That was the first time I'd seen Graham play. I can see why Eddie likes him. Basically, he's Armand with an extra few yards of pace.

Is it just me, or was his defence a little suspect?

I did not see evidence of that but you may be right. He did get well stuck in with some last ditch tackles near his own line. That indicated excellent commitment physically. Were you referring more to technique or positioning?

It seemed worse at the time, but he missed 3 tackles. I thought it was more. I remember him falling off an important one on...McGinty I think.

As a flanker, those are the kind of tackles he needs to be nailing.

[Digby]

Can I assume at this point Gary Graham is simply being excused a punch from behind? If so then as James Stanndard and Phillip Hughes would attest such actions aren't to be worried about.

[Raggs]

Can I assume at this point Gary Graham is simply being excused a punch from behind? If so then as James Stanndard and Phillip Hughes would attest such actions aren't to be worried about.

Seems like it. Ridiculous really. Two strikes to the back of the head, replayed clearly during the programming, ignored. Imagine if that had been Ashton or Hartley, either of those would have got 10+ weeks.

[Digby]

Can I assume at this point Gary Graham is simply being excused a punch from behind? If so then as James Stanndard and Phillip Hughes would attest such actions aren't to be worried about.

Seems like it. Ridiculous really. Two strikes to the back of the head, replayed clearly during the programming, ignored. Imagine if that had been Ashton or Hartley, either of those would have got 10+ weeks.

At least they remain comically inconsistent, and we don't know they don't want to be an object of ridicule