EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[Mellsblue]

England will attempt to replicate World Cup travel schedule for autumn Tests

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45335415

[Mikey Brown]

I hope we practice receiving our medals and lifting the trophy if we win all our games.

[Mellsblue]

Yeh. You’d think we really should just be practising winning.

[Mellsblue]

Part of me hopes that Jones believes that after the first two years of his reign we had the basic goods to be world champions and he’d therefore spend the next 18 months working on fitness and RWC preparedness - over training, working within a ring fenced squad, flying into venues at the last minute (inc SA tour) - to the detriment and that it’s all a plan forged in genius. Most of me thinks that’s bullsh1t.

[Oakboy]

Part of me hopes that Jones believes that after the first two years of his reign we had the basic goods to be world champions and he’d therefore spend the next 18 months working on fitness and RWC preparedness - over training, working within a ring fenced squad, flying into venues at the last minute (inc SA tour) - to the detriment and that it’s all a plan forged in genius. Most of me thinks that’s bullsh1t.

I agree with 'most of me'. Jones is struggling, IMO. He's trying to come across as the wise old owl but he's plummeting into eccentricity.

Clutching at straws, maybe Mitchell will bring a dose of reality.

I know they say 'form is temporary, class is permanent'. The more enlightened view might be to analyse in depth the running average of, say, the last 5 matches and the last 10 matches at any point. How well did 9, 10, 12 run the game for 80 minutes as they should? How well did the back-row compete at the breakdown? How well did the front five dominate the opposition at set-piece? etc. etc. It might suggest that Jones's selection needs a fresh view perhaps.

[Mellsblue]

Anthony Watson: England back required second Achilles operation after new tear http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45347239

[Beasties]

I'm so confused with Watson's achilles injuries. Did we not know this one a few weeks ago? Seems like he's torn it five or six times now........

[Digby]

Times has Eddie as losing yet more staff, without picking the paper up again this time in conditioning and psychology.

I can't possibly comment on how good the psychologist was but our fitness looks poor, albeit that's not all on the S&C team

[Mellsblue]

I'm so confused with Watson's achilles injuries. Did we not know this one a few weeks ago? Seems like he's torn it five or six times now........

Iirc, there was some confusion as to whether he was in for a routine and planned second op or whether he’d re-injured it. It seems it was the second theory.

[Which Tyler]

I'm so confused with Watson's achilles injuries. Did we not know this one a few weeks ago? Seems like he's torn it five or six times now........

Iirc, there was some confusion as to whether he was in for a routine and planned second op or whether he’d re-injured it. It seems it was the second theory.

The second surgery confusion was JJ, not AW.
We knew he re-tore it a couple of weeks ago; with some confusion as to whether it was the 2nd or 3rd tear, as there had been rumours about 6 weeks ago about a 2nd tear; but those rumours look to have been caused by a fan seeing him in a surgical boot and thinking that meant a re-injury.
Sonja is late to the party realising that he has re-injured it now; but is the first (that I've seen) to go public with the injury mechanism this 2nd time around.


IMO they should repair it, and give him all the time he needs; not heap on expectation of timeframes or RWCs; absolutley should not be looking to rush him back undercooked. Quite apart from which, he's looking at 18-24 months before making a full recovery; even if he's playing again in 9-12.

[Mellsblue]

I'm so confused with Watson's achilles injuries. Did we not know this one a few weeks ago? Seems like he's torn it five or six times now........

Iirc, there was some confusion as to whether he was in for a routine and planned second op or whether he’d re-injured it. It seems it was the second theory.

The second surgery confusion was JJ, not AW.
We knew he re-tore it a couple of weeks ago; with some confusion as to whether it was the 2nd or 3rd tear, as there had been rumours about 6 weeks ago about a 2nd tear; but those rumours look to have been caused by a fan seeing him in a surgical boot and thinking that meant a re-injury.
Sonja is late to the party realising that he has re-injured it now; but is the first (that I've seen) to go public with the injury mechanism this 2nd time around.


IMO they should repair it, and give him all the time he needs; not heap on expectation of timeframes or RWCs; absolutley should not be looking to rush him back undercooked. Quite apart from which, he's looking at 18-24 months before making a full recovery; even if he's playing again in 9-12.

Confusion abounds!!

[Which Tyler]

Sorry - the rumoured 2nd rupture wasn't the result of being seen in a surgical boot; it was after he tweeted a picture of himself leaving the pitch injured - still a false re-injury rumour though.

[Mellsblue]

Confusion further abounds.

[Beasties]

I feel better now thanks.

[twitchy]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... erees-head


"Jones met Tony Spreadbury earlier this month to request the way the breakdown is refereed in the Premiership is brought closer into line with the international game."

[Digby]

Worth noting Spreaders didn’t leap at the chance to say the refs would seek to help England, and came much closer to saying we know the laws. I've some sympathy the AP is closer to the laws than many other interpretations, but that's of little use to Eddie

[Puja]

Worth noting Spreaders didn’t leap at the chance to say the refs would seek to help England, and came much closer to saying we know the laws. I've some sympathy the AP is closer to the laws than many other interpretations, but that's of little use to Eddie

I'd agree with that. World Rugby brought out all these directives about how the breakdown was supposed to be reffed and then we were the only buggers stupid enough to actually abide by them in our domestic comp, so when we went to Europe or internationals, we were totally unprepared.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Yup, not just Eddie, but our clubs suffer in Europe too.
But then, it's always been this way to a degree

[Raggs]

Worth noting Spreaders didn’t leap at the chance to say the refs would seek to help England, and came much closer to saying we know the laws. I've some sympathy the AP is closer to the laws than many other interpretations, but that's of little use to Eddie

I'd agree with that. World Rugby brought out all these directives about how the breakdown was supposed to be reffed and then we were the only buggers stupid enough to actually abide by them in our domestic comp, so when we went to Europe or internationals, we were totally unprepared.

Puja

Remember when they said anything around the eyes was to be clamped down on? 10 weeks for Ashton putting his hand across a guys face, no malice, red cards for a few other players, lock wraps his hands right into someones eyes in a maul in the rugby championship and no one blinks.

[Digby]

Yup, not just Eddie, but our clubs suffer in Europe too.
But then, it's always been this way to a degree

It's on the clubs tbh, if they wanted change it'd happen. Clearly they favour things as they are, at least a majority does

[Digby]

Remember when they said anything around the eyes was to be clamped down on? 10 weeks for Ashton putting his hand across a guys face, no malice, red cards for a few other players, lock wraps his hands right into someones eyes in a maul in the rugby championship and no one blinks.

Easier to ignore such pronouncements for two or even three months and then see if anyone is still paying even the slightest bit of attention. Or I suppose we might get something similar to scrum feeds with one random player being pinged so the ref's assessor can tick a box on the review sheet

[twitchy]

Yup, not just Eddie, but our clubs suffer in Europe too.
But then, it's always been this way to a degree

It's on the clubs tbh, if they wanted change it'd happen. Clearly they favour things as they are, at least a majority does

Why do you think that is?

[Digby]

Yup, not just Eddie, but our clubs suffer in Europe too.
But then, it's always been this way to a degree

It's on the clubs tbh, if they wanted change it'd happen. Clearly they favour things as they are, at least a majority does

Why do you think that is?

It's their league, they decide how they want the game coached and officiated, that they're perhaps wrong is immatet

[Mikey Brown]

Any of you scumbags able to read this?

[Puja]

Sam Underhill’s defensive breakdown skills have been a subject of fascination for English punters since his move to Bath from the Ospreys last summer.

As one of a few players vying to establish himself as Eddie Jones’ first-choice openside for Rugby World Cup 2019 – and thus cure all of England’s ills, obviously – he has been followed and evaluated closely.

Jones knows that his players must develop their scavenging at the tackle area. But his most famous in-game meltdown with England was encouraged by Underhill’s clumsy attempt to steal possession against Argentina last autumn.

Having missed the summer tour to South Africa, Underhill will have wanted to begin this current campaign strongly. However, a couple of penalties during Bath’s defeat to Bristol hinted at over-eagerness.

Here, in the first half, he adopted a decent position but was cleared out by Ed Holmes. Underhill swung a boot around the melee and kicked the ball out of the hands of Nic Stirzaker. He was lucky not to see yellow:
Underhill

In the second period, Underhill tackled Steven Luatua and bounced back to his feet. Then, with Jordan Crane engaging Zach Mercer to create the ruck, he dived back towards the ball without quite supporting his bodyweight:

Referee JP Doyle explains the infringement:

“You’re not back on your feet when you played it, Sam.”

Bristol kicked three points from both of these penalties. Despite some flashes of effective attacking link play, Underhill was replaced by Francois Louw in the 59th minute. He would have felt frustrated.

With Jones watching on at The Rec on Saturday, the 22 year-old carried well once more. But the breakdown disruption that helped haul Bath back into the game really caught the eye.
Valuable slowing without stealing

This piece looks at three of Underhill’s interventions, all of them important ones that arrived in the final quarter of a chaotic game. That speaks to his endurance, but also to sharpening opportunism.

The first comes from a scrum as Gloucester launch a typical first-phase move. Centre Mark Atikinson, flanked by Billy Twelvetrees, takes at first-receiver with Danny Cipriani fading in behind inside roaming wing Matt Banahan.

Atkinson spies a gap between Bath scrum-half Max Green and fly-half Rhys Priestland:
Underhill

He dummies and pierces the gain-line despite Green’s tackle. Then Underhill swoops around. He might see that Twlevetrees’ support line has been delayed by an off-the-ball scrag from Priestland (black circle).

Even if he does not, the carrier is isolated enough to prompt him to commit to the breakdown:
Underhill

On the back of a clever running line that sees him arrive promptly, Underhill pounces and absorbs the clear-out attempt of opposite number Lewis Ludlow:
Underhill

He is very close to pilfering possession...
Underhill

…but referee Luke Pearce says “never on the ball” and allows Gloucester to recycle. Even so, the ruck has lasted between four and five seconds. That delay justifies Underhill’s decision.

Although the visitors make more metres, Bath force a turnover three phases later. Green kicked down-field, Semesa Rokoduguni collected and the hosts scored to level the game.
Post-tackle intelligence

The next passage demonstrates a big strength of Underhill’s game. He may not be as natural a jackaller as someone like Tom Curry, but he can still cause havoc as opposing teams attempt to recycle after a tackle.

At his best, Australia captain Michael Hooper is a menace when firing into rapid counter-rucks and taking the space immediately behind rival carriers as they go to the ground.

Underhill has the attributes – tackle technique, explosive power, a low centre of gravity – to make this a trademark. Here, Gloucester lose impetus 10 phases into an attacking set.

Twelvetrees steps up a first-receiver, takes a pass from scrum-half Callum Braley and sends up Ed Slater. Jake Polledri carves from out to in on a support line and Cipriani is lurking in behind. Look at Underhill’s line of sight. Alongside Elliott Stooke in Bath’s defensive line, he has already identified the carrier:
Underhill

Sure enough, when Slater holds on and takes contact, Underhill and Stooke are able to propel him backwards in robust, two-man tackle:
Underhill

Polledri is in front of the ball, so Twelvetrees must resource the breakdown. Stooke is able to counter-ruck, though. Meanwhile, Underhill peels himself off Slater.

Now, he cannot compete for the ball with his hands at this point, because a ruck has formed over Slater:
Underhill

Instead, he keeps his discipline and waits until the ball comes loose –perhaps rolled back by Slater towards his teammates. Then, Underhill scampers through:
Underhill

He snaffles possession and helps his side escape from a tight spot, with Pearce awarding a scrum in Bath’s favour. Turnovers like these, inside the ‘red zone’, can swing matches because if their emotional weight – sapping the attacking team and inspiring the defence.
Sizing up the strike

The final passage comes during a kick-chase – a pivotal transition situation in modern rugby. Look at Underhill’s starting position as Priestland clears:
Underhill

Jason Woodward leads Gloucester’s counter and tries to pick out a mismatch, stepping towards the hole between Bath prop Jacques van Rooyen and back-rower Tom Ellis.

Underhill is sizing up the play…
Underhill

…and – as Bath’s replacements connect well, close the gap and fell Woodward – he arrives on the scene, adopts a strong position to attack the ball:
Underhill

Gloucester loosehead prop Josh Hohneck cannot shift him…
Underhill

…and Pearce awards the penalty to Bath:
underhill

Priestland’s touch-finder sailed to within five metres of the line and the hosts went ahead.

Gloucester only lost three of their 109 rucks in this game, so Underhill’s influence seems more impressive.

Added to that, referee Pearce has officiating Test matches this summer and will, as such, be up to speed with how World Rugby bosses want the breakdown to be deliberated – seemingly by permitting a fiercer contest on the floor.

All of that, as well as the fact that he did not concede a single penalty, bodes well for Underhill’s England prospects.

Puja