Beasties wrote:Christ this has spoiled my day. I was blissfully unaware that a training squad was to be announced til now. Sometimes it's better to keep away from RR.
Yeah well get a load of this from Guscott;
"Farrell has been one of the best midfield backs in the international game for the past four seasons. What is required now is for the rest of the England backs to match Farrell’s consistency."
I mean - just f*ck off. Really, they're watching a different player to me.
He's obviously good behind the scenes as everyone takes every opportunity they can to put him on the back, but what I see is a good kicker, who understands the game well and is solid defensively. But who has a very limited running game and no flair whatsoever.
Thank you; that's much clearer.
Let's see - swap Schonert for Cole, Rhodes for Underhill, Hughes for Simmonds, Shields for Kvesic, Te'o for Marchant, Earle for Cipriani and bring in LCD, and I'd be a lot happier.
Puja
Beasties wrote:Christ this has spoiled my day. I was blissfully unaware that a training squad was to be announced til now. Sometimes it's better to keep away from RR.
Yeah well get a load of this from Guscott;
"Farrell has been one of the best midfield backs in the international game for the past four seasons. What is required now is for the rest of the England backs to match Farrell’s consistency."
I mean - just f*ck off. Really, they're watching a different player to me.
He's obviously good behind the scenes as everyone takes every opportunity they can to put him on the back, but what I see is a good kicker, who understands the game well and is solid defensively. But who has a very limited running game and no flair whatsoever.
The funny thing is I wouldn’t entirely agree with the specifics of his game you’ve mentioned there, which is at least a nod to his lack of consistency. That’s the one that gets me, even more than any of the test-match-animal stuff.
He is by far the most erratic of the 3 contenders at fly-half.
Gloskarlos wrote:
Tuilagi has a lot to prove after being out so long and only played 3 games. He's there on reputation in my book, a good rep but not there on merit as of now.
This again?
Either he's only played 3 matches in the same way that everyone has only played 3 matces; or you have to admit that he's played 13 matches since Christmas.
He's also been in good form for the 3 matches he's played this season; along with Slade and Marchant, he's probably 3rd choice on form at OC from the Premiership.
As for the squad itself - I'm just hoping that it's Eddie doing his "training squad" thing, meaning fairly little about who will be selected for the AIs - he does have form for this.
Thank you; that's much clearer.
Let's see - swap Schonert for Cole, Rhodes for Underhill, Hughes for Simmonds, Shields for Kvesic, Te'o for Marchant, Earle for Cipriani and bring in LCD, and I'd be a lot happier.
Puja
Thankyou Fellas.
Who are Earle and Schonert..?.
Nathan Earle is the young guy who was getting occasional games for Saracens last year and is now starting regularly at Quins. Made the EPS in the first place because he'd had a successful season playing NPC for Canterbury and is still hanging around, despite not being anything other than average.
Schonert is the SA-born Worcester tighthead. He's a good scrummager, but doesn't bring much else and it's a sad inditement of our tighthead resources that we're looking at him.
Neither should trouble the XXIII without lots of injuries.
Which Tyler wrote:
As for the squad itself - I'm just hoping that it's Eddie doing his "training squad" thing, meaning fairly little about who will be selected for the AIs - he does have form for this.
I’d take cover. There is some mortar fire coming your way.
Which Tyler wrote:
As for the squad itself - I'm just hoping that it's Eddie doing his "training squad" thing, meaning fairly little about who will be selected for the AIs - he does have form for this.
I’d take cover. There is some mortar fire coming your way.
It's alright - I'm already hiding behind the sofa on seeing the squad; whilst grasping at (singleuse plastic) straws to try and keep my blood pressure in check anway.
That line was in lieu of a rather lengthy rant I'd half-typed.
In a straight choice of best FH, I'd have 1. Cipriani, 2. Farrell, 3. Ford, taking current form and last 12 months into account. How Jones inverts that is beyond logic.
Oakboy wrote:In a straight choice of best FH, I'd have 1. Cipriani, 2. Farrell, 3. Ford, taking current form and last 12 months into account. How Jones inverts that is beyond logic.
I am continuously amazed at your failure to rate Ford.
He was superb against Wasps. And he does that regularly. His passing and the timing of his passing is so far ahead of the competition it's not funny.
Gloskarlos wrote:
Tuilagi has a lot to prove after being out so long and only played 3 games. He's there on reputation in my book, a good rep but not there on merit as of now.
This again?
Either he's only played 3 matches in the same way that everyone has only played 3 matces; or you have to admit that he's played 13 matches since Christmas.
He's also been in good form for the 3 matches he's played this season; along with Slade and Marchant, he's probably 3rd choice on form at OC from the Premiership.
As for the squad itself - I'm just hoping that it's Eddie doing his "training squad" thing, meaning fairly little about who will be selected for the AIs - he does have form for this.
When you say 'this again', you imply that it has been mentioned before - not by me. He has been plagued by injury the last 3 seasons, more than any other high profile player I can recall.
That said, now I look at the stats - he has played more than I thought, feels like he has been out for a long time and almost all of last season, which isn't quite true.
He has actually played 12 times in 2018 in total this year which surprises me. And a further 10 times since the end of the 15/16 season.
Oakboy wrote:In a straight choice of best FH, I'd have 1. Cipriani, 2. Farrell, 3. Ford, taking current form and last 12 months into account. How Jones inverts that is beyond logic.
I am continuously amazed at your failure to rate Ford.
He was superb against Wasps. And he does that regularly. His passing and the timing of his passing is so far ahead of the competition it's not funny.
Aye. I could maybe understand that at point in the last couple of seasons, but Ford has looked fantastic so far. Has Farrell been playing well? As impressive as they are as a unit, I just sort of glaze over when watching Saracens.
Oakboy wrote:In a straight choice of best FH, I'd have 1. Cipriani, 2. Farrell, 3. Ford, taking current form and last 12 months into account. How Jones inverts that is beyond logic.
I am continuously amazed at your failure to rate Ford.
He was superb against Wasps. And he does that regularly. His passing and the timing of his passing is so far ahead of the competition it's not funny.
Tend to agree with Stom', but I've seen nothing of this season and almost nothing of Earle.
Oakboy wrote:In a straight choice of best FH, I'd have 1. Cipriani, 2. Farrell, 3. Ford, taking current form and last 12 months into account. How Jones inverts that is beyond logic.
I am continuously amazed at your failure to rate Ford.
He was superb against Wasps. And he does that regularly. His passing and the timing of his passing is so far ahead of the competition it's not funny.
Superb? I must have watched a different game. 'Good', I'd accept.
Conversely, I can't understand how he has hardly received any criticism for being our game manager for one of our worst ever run of results. Central to that, in my unchanged opinion, is that he fails to run the show when Farrell is at 12 and Youngs at 9. Potentially, Ford is as good as you claim. I was advocating him loudly back in the days of his first spell at Leicester when Banquo and others suggested Burns had more to offer.
Cipriani is just the best. Farrell is always going to be in the XV and I think he's a more effective game manager at 10 than Ford has been for the last year or so. He's not as gifted a player as Ford by a long way but there it is.
Oakboy wrote:In a straight choice of best FH, I'd have 1. Cipriani, 2. Farrell, 3. Ford, taking current form and last 12 months into account. How Jones inverts that is beyond logic.
I am continuously amazed at your failure to rate Ford.
He was superb against Wasps. And he does that regularly. His passing and the timing of his passing is so far ahead of the competition it's not funny.
Superb? I must have watched a different game. 'Good', I'd accept.
Conversely, I can't understand how he has hardly received any criticism for being our game manager for one of our worst ever run of results. Central to that, in my unchanged opinion, is that he fails to run the show when Farrell is at 12 and Youngs at 9. Potentially, Ford is as good as you claim. I was advocating him loudly back in the days of his first spell at Leicester when Banquo and others suggested Burns had more to offer.
Cipriani is just the best. Farrell is always going to be in the XV and I think he's a more effective game manager at 10 than Ford has been for the last year or so. He's not as gifted a player as Ford by a long way but there it is.
If you really want to know if Farrell is a better game manager than Ford, judge Farrell on his performance at 10 v Ireland* dealing with crap Ford has to deal with, and with the advantage of having a real 12 outside him. Don’t judge him on the armchair ride he gets at Saracens.
Stom wrote:
I am continuously amazed at your failure to rate Ford.
He was superb against Wasps. And he does that regularly. His passing and the timing of his passing is so far ahead of the competition it's not funny.
Superb? I must have watched a different game. 'Good', I'd accept.
Conversely, I can't understand how he has hardly received any criticism for being our game manager for one of our worst ever run of results. Central to that, in my unchanged opinion, is that he fails to run the show when Farrell is at 12 and Youngs at 9. Potentially, Ford is as good as you claim. I was advocating him loudly back in the days of his first spell at Leicester when Banquo and others suggested Burns had more to offer.
Cipriani is just the best. Farrell is always going to be in the XV and I think he's a more effective game manager at 10 than Ford has been for the last year or so. He's not as gifted a player as Ford by a long way but there it is.
If you really want to know if Farrell is a better game manager than Ford, judge Farrell on his performance at 10 v Ireland* dealing with crap Ford has to deal with, and with the advantage of having a real 12 outside him. Don’t judge him on the armchair ride he gets at Saracens.
He was rubbish.
Valid point that I accept. I'd cheerfully drop Farrell completely and allow Ford and Cipriani to battle over the shirt. You and I both know Jones will never leave Farrell out of the XV. My comments allow for that.
Oakboy wrote:
Superb? I must have watched a different game. 'Good', I'd accept.
Conversely, I can't understand how he has hardly received any criticism for being our game manager for one of our worst ever run of results. Central to that, in my unchanged opinion, is that he fails to run the show when Farrell is at 12 and Youngs at 9. Potentially, Ford is as good as you claim. I was advocating him loudly back in the days of his first spell at Leicester when Banquo and others suggested Burns had more to offer.
Cipriani is just the best. Farrell is always going to be in the XV and I think he's a more effective game manager at 10 than Ford has been for the last year or so. He's not as gifted a player as Ford by a long way but there it is.
If you really want to know if Farrell is a better game manager than Ford, judge Farrell on his performance at 10 v Ireland* dealing with crap Ford has to deal with, and with the advantage of having a real 12 outside him. Don’t judge him on the armchair ride he gets at Saracens.
He was rubbish.
Valid point that I accept. I'd cheerfully drop Farrell completely and allow Ford and Cipriani to battle over the shirt. You and I both know Jones will never leave Farrell out of the XV. My comments allow for that.
It’s almost as the Jones is a stubborn, one eyed, mean spirited qunt who likes to surround himself with other qunts, rather than a progressive and even handed selector who doesn’t play favourites. That would be ridiculous though.
Oakboy wrote:
Superb? I must have watched a different game. 'Good', I'd accept.
Conversely, I can't understand how he has hardly received any criticism for being our game manager for one of our worst ever run of results. Central to that, in my unchanged opinion, is that he fails to run the show when Farrell is at 12 and Youngs at 9. Potentially, Ford is as good as you claim. I was advocating him loudly back in the days of his first spell at Leicester when Banquo and others suggested Burns had more to offer.
Cipriani is just the best. Farrell is always going to be in the XV and I think he's a more effective game manager at 10 than Ford has been for the last year or so. He's not as gifted a player as Ford by a long way but there it is.
If you really want to know if Farrell is a better game manager than Ford, judge Farrell on his performance at 10 v Ireland* dealing with crap Ford has to deal with, and with the advantage of having a real 12 outside him. Don’t judge him on the armchair ride he gets at Saracens.
He was rubbish.
Valid point that I accept. I'd cheerfully drop Farrell completely and allow Ford and Cipriani to battle over the shirt. You and I both know Jones will never leave Farrell out of the XV. My comments allow for that.
though would you be able to trust Cips with the kicking with no Farrell?
Mellsblue wrote:
If you really want to know if Farrell is a better game manager than Ford, judge Farrell on his performance at 10 v Ireland* dealing with crap Ford has to deal with, and with the advantage of having a real 12 outside him. Don’t judge him on the armchair ride he gets at Saracens.
He was rubbish.
Valid point that I accept. I'd cheerfully drop Farrell completely and allow Ford and Cipriani to battle over the shirt. You and I both know Jones will never leave Farrell out of the XV. My comments allow for that.
though would you be able to trust Cips with the kicking with no Farrell?
I guess Daly could do the kicking.
Cipriani’s kicking % was higher than Farrell’s last season (as was Ford’s).
That team is built around Farrell. You know exactly what the bench is going to bring, and that is a big dumptruck at 12 and/or 13, with Ford off at about the 50 minute mark. You have the single genuine open side. You know what made Eddie look good at the Brumbies back in the day? George Smith, that's what.
Valid point that I accept. I'd cheerfully drop Farrell completely and allow Ford and Cipriani to battle over the shirt. You and I both know Jones will never leave Farrell out of the XV. My comments allow for that.
though would you be able to trust Cips with the kicking with no Farrell?
I guess Daly could do the kicking.
Cipriani’s kicking % was higher than Farrell’s last season (as was Ford’s).
