EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[Stom]

With both Currys looking good and Underhill around, it's crazy to think we finally have a few opensides.

Now we just have our huge issues at 9 and 10 or 12, depending on whether Ford plays...

Farrell was appalling today. Just terrible.

[Epaminondas Pules]

With both Currys looking good and Underhill around, it's crazy to think we finally have a few opensides.

Now we just have our huge issues at 9 and 10 or 12, depending on whether Ford plays...

Farrell was appalling today. Just terrible.

Really? A harsh yellow card and a mouth that needs glueing shut. What was it about his play that was so terrible?

I get that he is vehemently disliked, but he wasn't terrible at all.

[Timbo]

With both Currys looking good and Underhill around, it's crazy to think we finally have a few opensides.

Now we just have our huge issues at 9 and 10 or 12, depending on whether Ford plays...

Farrell was appalling today. Just terrible.

Really? A harsh yellow card and a mouth that needs glueing shut. What was it about his play that was so terrible?

I get that he is vehemently disliked, but he wasn't terrible at all.

Agreed, he wasn’t. I don’t think his game is in full working order at the moment though. He’s receiving the ball stood still too often, and whereas he’s normally incredibly direct, I feel like he’s just a tad passive. Maybe tiredness, or perhaps a slight loss of confidence.

[Bloggs]

I actually thought Farrell played quite well apart from the high tackles and gobbiness. The kicks behind the Sale defence were class

[Scrumhead]

I’m somewhere in between on Farrell’s performance last night.

The kicking from hand was good - particularly those low, raking kicks to the corner but he didn’t create much and was at his default petulant setting for much of the game. Appalling is way too harsh, but ‘good’ is too generous. 5/10 for me.

[Stom]

With both Currys looking good and Underhill around, it's crazy to think we finally have a few opensides.

Now we just have our huge issues at 9 and 10 or 12, depending on whether Ford plays...

Farrell was appalling today. Just terrible.

Really? A harsh yellow card and a mouth that needs glueing shut. What was it about his play that was so terrible?

I get that he is vehemently disliked, but he wasn't terrible at all.

First, that was never a harsh yellow. Stone cold. Second, I may have missed some things he did well early on. Third, when Sarries needed to push on, to trouble the line, he was consistently standing still and simply shifting on the ball. Most of Sarries penetration came from Loz and Goode. Fourth, he's the captain, he sets the tone. If his team are unable to control themselves, that's his fault.

[Scrumhead]

Or to put it another way, it’s not unreasonable to expect better from a player reputed to be ‘world class’ and the likely England captain.

[Which Tyler]

Nearly finished watching the match.
Faz played... more or less par for Faz, maybe a little subdued.

He's been a little overexcited in defence and a little underwhelming in attack, a little play-by-numbers in terms of decision making, with good to very good execution from the boot, and okay execution from the hand. His captaincy style is to inspire his own team, and to be fighty; but to alienate the ref by being fighty.

The only thing I've really noticed from him today that is outside my expectations, is that I haven't spotted him rushing out of the line in defence - which is a dry good thing and to be commended. I await to see if that's a sign of growing maturity, or him holding himself back without Barrett's brilliance in defence to bail him out (which would still be commendable maturity, just less so).

If he keeps playing like this, I'd have no problem with Faz as a rugby player; but he's no captain and needs to show that he's actually stopped rushing out of the line in defence. The problem is the hype and undroppable status - neither of which are his fault.


Laurence really is a terrible pundit - Barnes-like in his devotion to the pre-match hype and refusal to acknowledge what's actually happening on the pitch.

[Mellsblue]

I thought Faz was average, but Sale won the gainline most of the time so to do any better would be very difficult.
His grabbers to the corners are very good. I’d argue one was probably a phase or two earlier but that’s nit picking.
I thought he messed up one opportunity when they had an overlap on the blindside. He recognised the opportunity and demanded the ball, but he took the ball up to the line too quickly and released it too late meaning the man outside him didn’t have time to get the two outside him into a two on one situation. A lot of that was probably a desire to make something actually happen but you can’t help feeling Ford or Cips would’ve engineered a line break.

[Epaminondas Pules]

With both Currys looking good and Underhill around, it's crazy to think we finally have a few opensides.

Now we just have our huge issues at 9 and 10 or 12, depending on whether Ford plays...

Farrell was appalling today. Just terrible.

Really? A harsh yellow card and a mouth that needs glueing shut. What was it about his play that was so terrible?

I get that he is vehemently disliked, but he wasn't terrible at all.

First, that was never a harsh yellow. Stone cold. Second, I may have missed some things he did well early on. Third, when Sarries needed to push on, to trouble the line, he was consistently standing still and simply shifting on the ball. Most of Sarries penetration came from Loz and Goode. Fourth, he's the captain, he sets the tone. If his team are unable to control themselves, that's his fault.

Yes it was. When have you seen a seatbelt tackle carded? And zero mitigation for Ashton's defending (right) arm? Dude, try to open the other fucking eye for once. I get that you hate Farrell, but at least try eh. You might enjoy it.

Second. Well maybe watch properly before such a damning judgement; maybe? Just maybe? He was terrible, but I might have missed some stuff. Genius kid! Genius!

Third, he took the ball to the line a few times, moved the ball. Shifted some granted, static at times, agreed, but he wasn't the bag of shit you're painting him to be.

Sarries got rattled. Farrell's mouth doesn't help. Agreed. He should control his team, though this does happen to many teams when another gets under their skin, but is the captain's responsibility.

Doesn't sound like terrible to me, or appalling. But then if you start the match with a mindset that Farrell is utter shit and an abomination then you'll always think he plays like shit.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I thought Faz was average, but Sale won the gainline most of the time so to do any better would be very difficult.
His grabbers to the corners are very good. I’d argue one was probably a phase or two earlier but that’s nit picking.
I thought he messed up one opportunity when they had an overlap on the blindside. He recognised the opportunity and demanded the ball, but he took the ball up to the line too quickly and released it too late meaning the man outside him didn’t have time to get the two outside him into a two on one situation. A lot of that was probably a desire to make something actually happen but you can’t help feeling Ford or Cips would’ve engineered a line break.

I agree. He had some good moment, some less so. Was a bit too static at times. Some good decision making, and some excellent kicks. Looked to take the line a couple of times and get the hands free, but didn't come off. All in all he was OK.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Nearly finished watching the match.
Faz played... more or less par for Faz, maybe a little subdued.

He's been a little overexcited in defence and a little underwhelming in attack, a little play-by-numbers in terms of decision making, with good to very good execution from the boot, and okay execution from the hand. His captaincy style is to inspire his own team, and to be fighty; but to alienate the ref by being fighty.

The only thing I've really noticed from him today that is outside my expectations, is that I haven't spotted him rushing out of the line in defence - which is a dry good thing and to be commended. I await to see if that's a sign of growing maturity, or him holding himself back without Barrett's brilliance in defence to bail him out (which would still be commendable maturity, just less so).

If he keeps playing like this, I'd have no problem with Faz as a rugby player; but he's no captain and needs to show that he's actually stopped rushing out of the line in defence. The problem is the hype and undroppable status - neither of which are his fault.


Laurence really is a terrible pundit - Barnes-like in his devotion to the pre-match hype and refusal to acknowledge what's actually happening on the pitch.

By a country mile the worst out there. I'd rather listen to Barnes and Woodentwat for 24 hours straight than Lol 'I'm 50% wrong and 50% stating the bleedin' obvious' Dallaglio.

[Scrumhead]

If you were new to English rugby and compared Farrell’s performance last night with Ford’s today, there’s no way you’ be picking the former as England’s 10.

[Renniks]

If you were new to English rugby and compared Farrell’s performance last night with Ford’s today, there’s no way you’ be picking the former as England’s 10.

But, Ford passed to Evans then failed to tackle him!

[Epaminondas Pules]

If you were new to English rugby and compared Farrell’s performance last night with Ford’s today, there’s no way you’ be picking the former as England’s 10.

Agreed. Though you’d also factor in clean quick ball, which Leicester had in spades and Sarries not, for example. Ford was excellent today, though our forwards actually bothered to turn up this week which helps massively, along with the injuries in Glaws backrow.

[Stom]

Really? A harsh yellow card and a mouth that needs glueing shut. What was it about his play that was so terrible?

I get that he is vehemently disliked, but he wasn't terrible at all.

First, that was never a harsh yellow. Stone cold. Second, I may have missed some things he did well early on. Third, when Sarries needed to push on, to trouble the line, he was consistently standing still and simply shifting on the ball. Most of Sarries penetration came from Loz and Goode. Fourth, he's the captain, he sets the tone. If his team are unable to control themselves, that's his fault.

Yes it was. When have you seen a seatbelt tackle carded? And zero mitigation for Ashton's defending (right) arm? Dude, try to open the other fucking eye for once. I get that you hate Farrell, but at least try eh. You might enjoy it.

Second. Well maybe watch properly before such a damning judgement; maybe? Just maybe? He was terrible, but I might have missed some stuff. Genius kid! Genius!

Third, he took the ball to the line a few times, moved the ball. Shifted some granted, static at times, agreed, but he wasn't the bag of shit you're painting him to be.

Sarries got rattled. Farrell's mouth doesn't help. Agreed. He should control his team, though this does happen to many teams when another gets under their skin, but is the captain's responsibility.

Doesn't sound like terrible to me, or appalling. But then if you start the match with a mindset that Farrell is utter shit and an abomination then you'll always think he plays like shit.

I'm always harsh on the playmaker when they cannot make plays. And I don't set out with a mindset that Farrell is utter shit, I just set out with a mindset to be hyperbolic. I mean, this is the internet!!!

He was pretty poor, mind. Sarries really lack direction without Brad Barritt. And a 27 year old international FH should not need hand holding, in my opinion.

[Mellsblue]

Just for the lols:

Stephen Jones’ England squad

Full-backs
Alex Goode (Saracens), Simon Hammersley (Newcastle)

Wings
Chris Ashton (Sale), Jack Nowell (Exeter), Jonny May (Leicester), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath)

Centres
Ben Te’o (Worcester), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester), Henry Slade (Exeter), Elliot Daly (Wasps)

Fly-halves
Owen Farrell (Saracens), Danny Cipriani (Gloucester), George Ford (Leicester)

Scrum-halves
Dan Robson (Wasps), Ben Youngs (Leicester), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

Loose-heads
Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Ben Moon (Exeter)

Hookers
Jamie George (Saracens), Rob Webber (Sale), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter)

Tight-heads
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Jake Cooper-Woolley (Wasps), Harry Williams (Exeter)

Locks
Matt Symons (Harlequins), Dave Attwood (Bath), George Kruis (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton)

Flankers
Maro Itoje (Saracens), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins), Mark Wilson (Newcastle), Don Armand (Exeter)

No 8s
Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Ben Morgan (Gloucester)

[Puja]

I was reading through that, thinking that it wasn't too barking by Stephen Jones's high standards. Then I reached the locks.

Puja

[BenHK]

Neither Curry in there?

[Scrumhead]

Predictably bizarre.

In fairness to him, Hammersley’s stats are good this season in a poor Newcastle side, but there is pretty much 0 chance of a new fullback being capped in the 6 Nations. If anyone is getting recalled, it’ll be Brown and not Goode.

[Puja]

Neither Curry in there?

Why would Stephen Jones want them? He can play Dombrandt at 7.

Puja

[Digby]

In Jones' mind it's just Ozzy and his Crazy Train on loop. I can for instance recall saying myself Webber would be a big signing for Sale and on a value for money basis would be the signing of the then season, but that's value for Sale given his physicality, not a belief he should be with England

(In fairness even allowing for injury and it was an attempt at a more outlandish prediction Webber wasn't close to signing of the season, though he is looking good now)

[Scrumhead]

Webber did OK for England. I wouldn’t be thinking about giving him a recall, but he was always better than I was expecting him to be. I seem to remember he was good on the Argentina tour prior to the 2015 World Cup.

I’m working on the assumption that LCD is third choice behind Hartley (if fit) and George.

[Timbo]

Did anyone see the Clermont v Saints game? Was a cracker, although definitely got the impression Clermont were a little less enthusiastic about defence than attack.

Harrison and Ribbans were huge on the carry, really wouldn’t rule either out of (more) Eng caps in the future. Lawes good as ever, Ludlum really impactful when he came on. Ehren Painter has lovely hands for a man built like an elephant. Mitchell at 9 was great, technically excellent and played with loads of tempo. Some good running in the outside backs.

Good things happening at Saints I reckon.

[Scrumhead]

I agree that things seem to be improving at Saints.

Mitchell has looked the most promising of the young English 9s this season IMO.

I’m less sure about the test pedigree of the others though.

I actually think Harrison’s improved quite a bit since he was in the mix with England but he’s got better (and in a lot of cases younger) competition at 7 and at 8. Great club player though.

Ribbans is definitely interesting but he frustrates me as he’s a bit inconsistent. He’s capable of some massive performances but doesn’t seem to be able to string a proper run of sustained form together.

It’ll be interesting to see how much Ludlam improves with the game time he’s getting. He looks good but a level below Underhill and the Curry twins. Probably competing on that next rung with the likes of Lewis Ludlow and Will Evans.