Snap General Election called

[Banquo]

Labour unsurprisingly struggling with party discipline already- 6 voted with govt on WA, and 32 abstained inc 3 shadow cabinet ministers. They need to get their sh*t together. One new labour MP completely missed the vote without permission!

[fivepointer]

Unbelievable. The vote was always going to be lost but how 6 MPs voted with Johnson (particularly given the changes to the bill see https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -different) and 32 others couldnt be arsed is utterly pathetic.

[Banquo]

Unbelievable. The vote was always going to be lost but how 6 MPs voted with Johnson (particularly given the changes to the bill see https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -different) and 32 others couldnt be arsed is utterly pathetic.

well its not couldn't be arsed- they abstained, against the instructions of their glorious leader......and one simply missed it, which was literally a rookie error.

eta- apols, they may well have just missed the vote without permission, so not necessarily an abstention (but most likely). One was the chairman and another their campaign chair/co-ordinator!

[Mellsblue]

Age is the new social class:

[Digby]

Tories announce sale of Cobham late on a Friday night shortly before Christmas, but don't worry they've been assured by venture capitalist types that national security isn't an issue. I am being slightly flippant there, but I do worry they think this will mollify the fat orange wanker with a view to future deals

[Sandydragon]

Tories announce sale of Cobham late on a Friday night shortly before Christmas, but don't worry they've been assured by venture capitalist types that national security isn't an issue. I am being slightly flippant there, but I do worry they think this will mollify the fat orange wanker with a view to future deals

Utter bollocks. Gotta love some of the Boris fan boys on The Time comments page trying to argue that Cobham has nothing to do with security because it’s just air to air refuelling.

Trying to bury bad news, although I do wonder what the alternative is here given the company has effectively failed.

[Digby]

Tories announce sale of Cobham late on a Friday night shortly before Christmas, but don't worry they've been assured by venture capitalist types that national security isn't an issue. I am being slightly flippant there, but I do worry they think this will mollify the fat orange wanker with a view to future deals

Utter bollocks. Gotta love some of the Boris fan boys on The Time comments page trying to argue that Cobham has nothing to do with security because it’s just air to air refuelling.

Trying to bury bad news, although I do wonder what the alternative is here given the company has effectively failed.

It's an interesting one. Cobham took a hit on some poor expansion plans and some poor deals with Boeing especially, but it still seems odd to let it go when the underlying business should be sound, and seeing as Said has a magic money tree...

That said we do gain a lot of benefits from being so open to foreign investment, and those shouldn't be ignored when sometimes it gets a little awkward

[Son of Mathonwy]

Tories announce sale of Cobham late on a Friday night shortly before Christmas, but don't worry they've been assured by venture capitalist types that national security isn't an issue. I am being slightly flippant there, but I do worry they think this will mollify the fat orange wanker with a view to future deals

Utter bollocks. Gotta love some of the Boris fan boys on The Time comments page trying to argue that Cobham has nothing to do with security because it’s just air to air refuelling.

Trying to bury bad news, although I do wonder what the alternative is here given the company has effectively failed.

It's an interesting one. Cobham took a hit on some poor expansion plans and some poor deals with Boeing especially, but it still seems odd to let it go when the underlying business should be sound, and seeing as Said has a magic money tree...

That said we do gain a lot of benefits from being so open to foreign investment, and those shouldn't be ignored when sometimes it gets a little awkward

Thing is, it's not going to win us any points with Trump. He'll just see us as even bigger pushovers.

[Digby]

Utter bollocks. Gotta love some of the Boris fan boys on The Time comments page trying to argue that Cobham has nothing to do with security because it’s just air to air refuelling.

Trying to bury bad news, although I do wonder what the alternative is here given the company has effectively failed.

It's an interesting one. Cobham took a hit on some poor expansion plans and some poor deals with Boeing especially, but it still seems odd to let it go when the underlying business should be sound, and seeing as Said has a magic money tree...

That said we do gain a lot of benefits from being so open to foreign investment, and those shouldn't be ignored when sometimes it gets a little awkward

Thing is, it's not going to win us any points with Trump. He'll just see us as even bigger pushovers.

I doubt he changes his opinion, every time things must go in his favour or it's unfair. So I'd go for our complicity being irrelevant to helping us in the longer term, and we could ask Macron about trying to be nice to the idiot

[Son of Mathonwy]

It's an interesting one. Cobham took a hit on some poor expansion plans and some poor deals with Boeing especially, but it still seems odd to let it go when the underlying business should be sound, and seeing as Said has a magic money tree...

That said we do gain a lot of benefits from being so open to foreign investment, and those shouldn't be ignored when sometimes it gets a little awkward

Thing is, it's not going to win us any points with Trump. He'll just see us as even bigger pushovers.

I doubt he changes his opinion, every time things must go in his favour or it's unfair. So I'd go for our complicity being irrelevant to helping us in the longer term, and we could ask Macron about trying to be nice to the idiot

I hope you're right. However, our lack of fight won't be missed by his negotiating team.

[Digby]

Thing is, it's not going to win us any points with Trump. He'll just see us as even bigger pushovers.

I doubt he changes his opinion, every time things must go in his favour or it's unfair. So I'd go for our complicity being irrelevant to helping us in the longer term, and we could ask Macron about trying to be nice to the idiot

I hope you're right. However, our lack of fight won't be missed by his negotiating team.

I think it's just as bad for us either way, I merely don't think facts or things that happen changes the Trumpian view of the world

[Mellsblue]

The first plans to reward the red wall for partially turning blue are being reported:

‘The north of England could be set to get its own version of MIT as part of Boris Johnson’s plans to boost the region’s economy.

The government is in discussions to set up a new institution that would provide space, technical support and seed money for the next James Dyson trying to invent products for a global market.

Jake Berry, the Northern Powerhouse minister, is leading discussions on setting up an “MIT of the north” as part of a multibillion-pound investment package for the region. Leeds is being touted as a possible location.

“MIT in Boston is one of the world’s most dynamic universities and provides its region with a significant boost to its economy,” Berry said last week.

“We want to set up a world-leading institution in the north to rival Oxford and Cambridge, where the best and brightest will base themselves to create new ideas and sell them.”

Tory sources say money would be made available to entrepreneurs at the facility to develop their inventions. Universities outside the “golden triangle” of London-Oxford-Cambridge are regarded as underperforming when it comes to converting academic research into practical business ideas.

The Northern Powerhouse — a plan to unlock northern England’s potential by transferring powers and budgets out of the capital and investing in skills, innovation, transport and culture — is in line for a further boost as ministers plan to give it a “large chunk” of the UK Shared Prosperity Fund for projects in Labour’s former “red wall” constituencies.

The fund will start in 2021, matching the £10.5bn that would have been due from the European Structural and Investment Fund over six years, if not for Brexit.

Government sources say the money will be spent on clean energy research and development; green-collar jobs such as those connected to wind farms; and transport connectivity. It would be the first time the Northern Powerhouse has been in control of its own budget.

“I want this to be about a transfer of power and money back to the north of England, rather than constantly having to ask the Treasury for money,” Berry said. “This is about making the change a permanent one.”

Other investment plans for the north include:

● A £900m devolution package for West Yorkshire, with similar powers to Greater Manchester

● Northern Rail to be stripped of its franchise and an “operator of last resort” brought in to run the railway under direct government control

● Extra funding of £4.2bn for the “metro mayors” in eight regions to spend on local public transport, including Liverpool city region, Greater Manchester, Tees Valley and North of Tyne

● Northern Powerhouse Rail, to be announced in the budget in February, with the full £39bn cost expected to be taken from an £80bn infrastructure pot to develop better transport links.’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/supe ... -wvc0nh7fj

[Digby]

Government sources say the money will be spent on clean energy research and development; green-collar jobs such as those connected to wind farms; and transport connectivity. It would be the first time the Northern Powerhouse has been in control of its own budget.

The whole isn't a bad idea, both adding another major research institution and moving the research away from Oxbridge and London, but it's still reasonably small, gotta start somewhere though. I picked out the above sentence however as I like the inherent contradiction

[Mellsblue]

Interesting read on why Labour lost voters:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... ned-labour

In a nutshell:
Corbyn seen as a poor leader
Brexit - predominantly due to refusing to take a position
Policies - all just a bit too much and bit too unaffordable.

[Banquo]

Interesting read on why Labour lost voters:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... ned-labour

In a nutshell:
Corbyn seen as a poor leader
Brexit - predominantly due to refusing to take a position
Policies - all just a bit too much and bit too unaffordable.

funny that.....

[Sandydragon]

We were saying exactly that before the election.

[Mellsblue]

Phillips and Nandy declare.
Not sure Phillips is leadership material but if you gave her a portfolio that played to her strengths/passions she’d be bloody effective.
I don’t know much about Nandy but her analysis of why Labour lost seems the most incisive I’ve heard from any of the candidates.

From a Conservative perspective, there seems to be enough clout for a leadership team to emerge that would have me worried. I think a team of Starmer, Phillips, Nandy and Rayner would be pretty formidable. Stick Champion in there as well, I believe her and Phillips are close, and I’d be even more worried.

[Sandydragon]

I like Phillips. She is the sort of personality the Tories should fear. She and Starmer could be a good combination with a decent supporting cast.

Can the Labour membership be that astute though?

[Digby]

Nandy speaks pretty well on winning back Labour heartland seats, but she has nothing to say about taking middle England back, so frankly what's the bleedin' point?

Phillips I like, but I like Jo Swinson too, and like Swinson I'm not sure how she'd play as the leader. It might not be the worst thing for Labour of they tried someone out now and it didn't work providing they look to correct in another 2-3 years, someone elected now if not proving very popular will have earned a fair amount of voter fatigue by the next election, so if they're going to try out someone like Phillips rather than a Cooper or Jarvis then now's the time.

[Son of Mathonwy]

It's too easy to portray Phillips as nothing more than a shouty woman. And Nandy as a whiner.

Personally, I don't see either of them as having much to say other than we didn't get it right last time, we should have listened to you more, but not saying what Labour actually should have done, or what it should actually do now. I don't have a problem with them being on the front bench though.

[Mellsblue]

Starmer is in it to win it:

[Mellsblue]

...we should have listened to you more.......or what it should actually do now.

The first part answers the second.

[Son of Mathonwy]

...we should have listened to you more.......or what it should actually do now.

The first part answers the second.

Not really. Does it mean you do whatever people tell you they want? What do you do if you think they're wrong? What do you do if different people want different things?

[Son of Mathonwy]

Starmer is in it to win it:

Like it.

[Mellsblue]

...we should have listened to you more.......or what it should actually do now.

The first part answers the second.

Not really. Does it mean you do whatever people tell you they want? What do you do if you think they're wrong? What do you do if different people want different things?

Listen to your base, not just conference.