Snap General Election called

[Banquo]

Agreed. Nothing wrong with having an expert to run the day by day business of the NHS, or other organisations. But the government must be able to provide direction and hold that CEO to account.

I fear much of what this government would like to do with the NHS - open it up for private profit etc - so anything which gives them more direct control within the NHS is to be feared.

It already is privatised to the hilt in that sense with PFI and GP Practices; previous experiments in other areas of service delivery have been a disaster, as it's almost impossible to make a profit. NHS at present is moving away from competitive tendering as above.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Agreed. Nothing wrong with having an expert to run the day by day business of the NHS, or other organisations. But the government must be able to provide direction and hold that CEO to account.

I fear much of what this government would like to do with the NHS - open it up for private profit etc - so anything which gives them more direct control within the NHS is to be feared.

It already is privatised to the hilt in that sense with PFI and GP Practices; previous experiments in other areas of service delivery have been a disaster, as it's almost impossible to make a profit. NHS at present is moving away from competitive tendering as above.

I'm sure they can find other ways to transmute public money into private profit, all in the name of efficiency.

[Banquo]

I fear much of what this government would like to do with the NHS - open it up for private profit etc - so anything which gives them more direct control within the NHS is to be feared.

It already is privatised to the hilt in that sense with PFI and GP Practices; previous experiments in other areas of service delivery have been a disaster, as it's almost impossible to make a profit. NHS at present is moving away from competitive tendering as above.

I'm sure they can find other ways to transmute public money into private profit, all in the name of efficiency.

They certainly need to get more efficient and re-invest at the front end.

[Mellsblue]

Very interesting thread:

[Digby]

Boris to approve HS2, probably. Which leads to reports there are concerns about Boris and that he doesn't understand budgets (following on from the report he doesn't understand climate change) and thus Boris is happy to approve any project he thinks will get positive media attention. Also Boris thinks infrastructure projects are inherently good and isn't too worried about return on investment because who wants to get bored reading detailed budgets

[Which Tyler]

Boris to approve HS2, probably. Which leads to reports there are concerns about Boris and that he doesn't understand budgets (following on from the report he doesn't understand climate change) and thus Boris is happy to approve any project he thinks will get positive media attention. Also Boris thinks infrastructure projects are inherently good and isn't too worried about return on investment because who wants to get bored reading detailed budgets

Whilst also pledging £5Bn to bus and cycle projects; and funding further feasability studies into building an unfeasable bridge between 2 parts of the UK that won't be parts of the UK by the time any potential building work could start (not that it would - being completely unfeasable)

[Mellsblue]

As when Mayor of London, Boris is happy to be a figurehead leading the general direction and making (what he views as) tub thumping speeches. He leaves the minutiae to experts and portfolio holders.....which is probably for the best.
Specifically on HS2, pretty much every senior politician and business related quango/think tank north of Northampton want it to go ahead and the latest review, whether you believe it to be truly independent, says it is still economically viable, even if well below the initial estimates, and is the only project that could deliver the extra capacity in the required timescales.
If it were canned there are plenty in the north and midlands who would go, rightly, apoplectic. Before I moved oop here I thought it was just a bunch of grumpy northerners moaning but the infrastructure up here, particularly rail, is dog shite.

[Mellsblue]

Those left of centre moaning about the govt loosening purse strings. We live in strange times.

[Which Tyler]

In sensational, shocking news, people who are left of centre are not all of one homogenous mind!

In further shocking news, those left of centre who are in favour of increased public spending, prefer it to do be done with an eye on return on investment (whether financial or social) rather than personal vanity and populism!

In shocking revelations yet to come - someone who repeatedly and explicitly states that he's not a labour supporter, and actively dislikes Corbyn, may NOT actually be a founder member of momentum after all, just to the left of a right of centre poster.

[Mellsblue]

I am shocked if you’re not left of centre.

The review of HS2 states it is economically viable and the eastern arm of the Y is being further reviewed for efficiencies. Further, as above, pretty much every senior northern and midlands politician is in favour, ie mostly Labour. The group most against it are the Conservative Party, both membership and parliamentary members. Boris isn’t ok’ing this for an easy life or to be a populist. I’m really am surprised people left of centre, I include Diggers in that not just you, aren’t in favour of HS2. Also, beyond the economic viability and the need to replace the shite provision people battle with everyday, it’s a green alternative to flying. Even Ed Davey thinks so.

[Digby]

I'm in favour of HS2 as we need new lines running out of London alway that deliver additional capacity and HS2 is wrapped up in the delivery of that. I can't say I've every quite understood why it had to shave an additional 10-15 minutes of the journey time from Birmingham to London at the cost of so many additional billions. I further don't understand why we keep saying the budget has gone up, when what's really happened is a combination of poor establishment of costs to begin with and the government again agreeing to the ultra low proposed delivery costs when they're never feasible

[Mellsblue]

I'm in favour of HS2 as we need new lines running out of London alway that deliver additional capacity and HS2 is wrapped up in the delivery of that. I can't say I've every quite understood why it had to shave an additional 10-15 minutes of the journey time from Birmingham to London at the cost of so many additional billions. I further don't understand why we keep saying the budget has gone up, when what's really happened is a combination of poor establishment of costs to begin with and the government again agreeing to the ultra low proposed delivery costs when they're never feasible

I can agree with most of that. Seems strange that you mentioned Boris four times in 9 (mobile phone) lines, when most isn’t his fault.

[Digby]

I'm in favour of HS2 as we need new lines running out of London alway that deliver additional capacity and HS2 is wrapped up in the delivery of that. I can't say I've every quite understood why it had to shave an additional 10-15 minutes of the journey time from Birmingham to London at the cost of so many additional billions. I further don't understand why we keep saying the budget has gone up, when what's really happened is a combination of poor establishment of costs to begin with and the government again agreeing to the ultra low proposed delivery costs when they're never feasible

I can agree with most of that. Seems strange that you mentioned Boris four times in 9 (mobile phone) lines, when most isn’t his fault.

That's mostly my amusement the leaking against Boris has already started, and the in fairness newsworthy nature that so many of the cabinet have reservations, that Dominic Cummings is against, that he has so many Shire MPs against HS2 and Boris is happily telling them all to fuck off he won big majority. It might be the nature of being told to fuck off that has so many people suddenly briefing against Boris

[Digby]

Also I'm maybe socially a liberal and/or left of centre, but I'm fiscally conservative. Something akin to David Laws maybe

[Mikey Brown]

Hmm.

[Which Tyler]

I am shocked if you’re not left of centre.

The review of HS2 states it is economically viable and the eastern arm of the Y is being further reviewed for efficiencies. Further, as above, pretty much every senior northern and midlands politician is in favour, ie mostly Labour. The group most against it are the Conservative Party, both membership and parliamentary members. Boris isn’t ok’ing this for an easy life or to be a populist. I’m really am surprised people left of centre, I include Diggers in that not just you, aren’t in favour of HS2. Also, beyond the economic viability and the need to replace the shite provision people battle with everyday, it’s a green alternative to flying. Even Ed Davey thinks so.

I'd say that I'm firmly left of centre socially, and fairly left of centre fiscally. Which still doesn't make me a labour supporter or a momentum-type.

I'm not opposed to HS2 on principal, whilst I'm reasonably neutral to slightly in favour of it in practice. I am, however, dubious that it's the best way to address the problems it's attempting to address.

I am, against populist vanity projects as a matter of principal (from both sides of the aisle), and I do utterly fail to trust anything that Boris does in that arena. I will need a lot more convincing that Boris isn't doing this for populist reasons, given that he's trying hard to woo Northerners.

[Mellsblue]

I am shocked if you’re not left of centre.

The review of HS2 states it is economically viable and the eastern arm of the Y is being further reviewed for efficiencies. Further, as above, pretty much every senior northern and midlands politician is in favour, ie mostly Labour. The group most against it are the Conservative Party, both membership and parliamentary members. Boris isn’t ok’ing this for an easy life or to be a populist. I’m really am surprised people left of centre, I include Diggers in that not just you, aren’t in favour of HS2. Also, beyond the economic viability and the need to replace the shite provision people battle with everyday, it’s a green alternative to flying. Even Ed Davey thinks so.

I'd say that I'm firmly left of centre socially, and fairly left of centre fiscally. Which still doesn't make me a labour supporter or a momentum-type.

I'm not opposed to HS2 on principal, whilst I'm reasonably neutral to slightly in favour of it in practice. I am, however, dubious that it's the best way to address the problems it's attempting to address.

I am, against populist vanity projects as a matter of principal (from both sides of the aisle), and I do utterly fail to trust anything that Boris does in that arena. I will need a lot more convincing that Boris isn't doing this for populist reasons, given that he's trying hard to woo Northerners.

So you are left of centre.....
Trying to woo voters is populist?!?! That’s pretty much what bring a politician involves. I’d agree that it’s populist if I didn’t have the backing of a recent review and 99% of the local big hitting politicians, but it does so I’m confused how it’s populist. It’s also the continuation of a Labour policy and is least popular within his own party.
Boris is massively flawed but this seems a strange point of attack.

[Which Tyler]

So you are left of centre.....

Why on earth would you ever think I wasn't? Are you SURE you actually read the things I write? - not that you have to by any stretch, but you persistently mis-characterise me. Please tell me that you understand that "left of centre" and "labour supporter" are not synonyms?

And yes, it's a populist move by a populist politician, done, I suspect, for populist reasons. Why does something being popular mean that it isn't populist?
Why does it being the continuation of a labour policy make it less populist? why do you think that means I would support it unconditionally?

[Mellsblue]

So you are left of centre.....

Why on earth would you ever think I wasn't? Are you SURE you actually read the things I write? - not that you have to by any stretch, but you persistently mis-characterise me. Please tell me that you understand that "left of centre" and "labour supporter" are not synonyms?

And yes, it's a populist move by a populist politician, done, I suspect, for populist reasons. Why does something being popular mean that it isn't populist?
Why does it being the continuation of a labour policy make it less populist? why do you think that means I would support it unconditionally?

Well you posted this “just to the left of a right of centre poster“ which leaves a lot of room for manoeuvre as to where your political views sit dependent on where you think I sit, and is strangely vague. I’ve also explicitly stated I think you’re left of centre previously - “ Those left of centre moaning about the govt loosening purse strings“ - to which you’ve the replied with the vague quote above. I was just exclaiming my happiness you’ve given some clarity.

I fully understand that left of centre does not equal Labour. I’ve studied politics, I’m married to a Lib Dem supporting politics grad, I’ve done many a year as a councillor and I currently work in the public sector and therefore deal with politicians on an almost daily basis. Trust me, I understand politics.

If you think a policy that has cross party support, both in Westminster and in the regions, has been backed by 3/4 different governments and has been given the green light by two different govt reviews is populist then, once again, we’ll have to disagree. Boris is a populist in many ways but that doesn’t make this a populist policy.

[Mellsblue]

Also I'm maybe socially a liberal and/or left of centre, but I'm fiscally conservative. Something akin to David Laws maybe

It may worry/disappoint you that I sit somewhere round there, too. I’ve a lot of admiration for Laws. His book on the coalition was fascinating and I found myself agreeing with an awful lot. His resignation was a huge blow to that govt.

[Digby]

Also I'm maybe socially a liberal and/or left of centre, but I'm fiscally conservative. Something akin to David Laws maybe

It may worry/disappoint you that I sit somewhere round there, too. I’ve a lot of admiration for Laws. His book on the coalition was fascinating and I found myself agreeing with an awful lot. His resignation was a huge blow to that govt.

He had to go at the time but yes it was a loss, both for his ability and that he was a bridge between the factions, I'm surprised we haven't heard more of him in recent times. I mean if disgraced former Defence Secretary Liam Fox is allowed out in public then Laws was by far the lesser transgressor and he typically has more useful things to say too

[Mellsblue]

Also I'm maybe socially a liberal and/or left of centre, but I'm fiscally conservative. Something akin to David Laws maybe

It may worry/disappoint you that I sit somewhere round there, too. I’ve a lot of admiration for Laws. His book on the coalition was fascinating and I found myself agreeing with an awful lot. His resignation was a huge blow to that govt.

He had to go at the time but yes it was a loss, both for his ability and that he was a bridge between the factions, I'm surprised we haven't heard more of him in recent times. I mean if disgraced former Defence Secretary Liam Fox is allowed out in public then Laws was by far the lesser transgressor and he typically has more useful things to say too

Agreed.

[Digby]

I'm in favour of HS2 as we need new lines running out of London alway that deliver additional capacity and HS2 is wrapped up in the delivery of that. I can't say I've every quite understood why it had to shave an additional 10-15 minutes of the journey time from Birmingham to London at the cost of so many additional billions. I further don't understand why we keep saying the budget has gone up, when what's really happened is a combination of poor establishment of costs to begin with and the government again agreeing to the ultra low proposed delivery costs when they're never feasible

I can agree with most of that. Seems strange that you mentioned Boris four times in 9 (mobile phone) lines, when most isn’t his fault.

That's mostly my amusement the leaking against Boris has already started, and the in fairness newsworthy nature that so many of the cabinet have reservations, that Dominic Cummings is against, that he has so many Shire MPs against HS2 and Boris is happily telling them all to fuck off he won big majority. It might be the nature of being told to fuck off that has so many people suddenly briefing against Boris

At least now my amusement/bemusement about people leaking/briefing so strongly against Boris has an explanation

[Which Tyler]

I see Chris Grayling has been appointed chair of the intelligence committee...

Bit of an oxymoron there

[Digby]

I wonder who else is on the committee, has it changed even? The last chap they appointed was Dominic Grieve, so this appears quite a few rungs down on the ladder