Old Rug

[septic 9]

Exciting looking Edinburgh lineup and that Glasgow backrow and centre partnership makes a bit more sense.

Meaningless game but will be very interested to see it.

Shiel has to see himself as a legitimate starter, not someone being given a bit of experience. If he is not clear second choice by the end of the season, either he should leave for more game time or he is just not as good as I think he is.

he is a talent. And I agree he does need to see himself as a potential starter, he will be 23 in December, no longer the new kid.

He does not seem to lack confidence, but as yet he is still a potential. Huge potential, but it won't be realised unless he gets more game time, and more starts. Last 10 mins against tiring lower ranked teams in the pro14 is all very well, but its not going to stretch him nearly enough.

His main problem is the conservative approach of Cockerill, he notoriously sticks with favourites, same at Leicester. And his conservative approach - Groom is a good 9 when fit and motivated, Pyrgos is class and experience but Shiel could be to Edinburgh what Price and Horne have been for Glasgow and Scotland, they all just offer something that bit different, sharper. And Shiel has the best pass at Edinburgh right now - that sharpness especially - makes quick ball all the better. Compare and contrast his pass with Laidlaw

For Shiel, he can wait until Pyrgos or Groom get injured or contracts expire. Or he can move, but moving where? Always a problem and more so now with reduced budgets and Union payments for EQ and FQ even more important to clubs. And is he willing to move away? Laidlaw did, Ford never did. One wanted to challenge himself and find new experiences, the other was a borders boy and got homesick travelling to Edinburgh. Which one is Charlie Shiel?

[Mikey Brown]

No idea how many will be in the stadium but I feel like it's going to be far weirder than having no crowd at all.

[Mikey Brown]

Bullshit card. He let go as soon as he really could.

[Mikey Brown]

The quality of passing in open play has been dreadful from basically everybody.

[Mikey Brown]

I'm confused how this person they are calling Kiran McDonald is supposed to be the same one that was playing for Glasgow at the beginning of the year.

[Cameo]

Not a great game with way too many scrums but chance to see a few players.

Jones - will get harder tests but so far has looked very comfortable at fullback and is even stepping in at first receiver. At worst, it makes him a better bench option for Scotland. Harsh yellow I thought and "I know it wasn't malicious. Yellow card, cynical play' makes no sense to me.

Shiel - nothing spectacular but looks comfortable. Delighted to see him penalised for taking more than five seconds after the use it call though could have been several more.

Chamberlain - didn't do much but pass looked crisp. Hopefully will have given Cockerill some faith that there is no need to shoehorn someone else ahead of him.

McDowall - was fine but seems a bit more lumbery now. Isn't seeming to hit the line in the same way as when he first came in. Nice play for Tagive's try though.

Kinghorn - again, would like to see him get his spark right back. Is playing fine and is very good at some random things (e.g. kickoffs) but seems like the least dangerous of a very dangerous back three. Would be nice if they can all spur each other on.

Also, why do refs never penalise the attacking team for holding the tackler in and stopping them rolling away. I'm fed up of refs telling the 9: 'No, it's your man holding him in' and therefore not giving a penalty to the attacking team but not doing anything about the holding. It should be a penalty, holding a man on the ground (especially if you are on the ground too) and trying to deceive the ref are both penalty offences.

[septic 9]

I'm confused how this person they are calling Kiran McDonald is supposed to be the same one that was playing for Glasgow at the beginning of the year.

I'm confused as to why you are confused. Came on for last 4 mins. Couple of run the clock carries and stole/ruined an Edinburgh lineout IRRC

[septic 9]

Jones - will get harder tests but so far has looked very comfortable at fullback and is even stepping in at first receiver. At worst, it makes him a better bench option for Scotland. Harsh yellow I thought and "I know it wasn't malicious. Yellow card, cynical play' makes no sense to me. .

mainly because it made no sense. That was a ref trying to justify a decision he'd made his mind up on, unwilling to review sensibly. He'll go far in the Owens school of reffing.

It was a pen by current laws, absolutely, but barely that and many similar are let go.

Worryingly Blain and Adamson have both been really poor these last 2 games

[septic 9]

Jones - will get harder tests but so far has looked very comfortable at fullback and is even stepping in at first receiver. At worst, it makes him a better bench option for Scotland.

its another string to his bow, and he again looked comfortable. He lacks the skill set for 1st receiver and that's a big handicap

Shiel - nothing spectacular but looks comfortable. Delighted to see him penalised for taking more than five seconds after the use it call though could have been several more.
I felt sorry for him.
First, as always its a much tougher gig to star at 9 with the flash breaks when you are on from the start rather than last 10-15mins against tiring defences. The OTT fan boys never get this. Second he was asked to nurse his 10 through the game when he should have been afforded an experienced 10 for his first big(gish) start. And to do that by playing a game unnatural to him. This was typical Cockerill reverting to 10 man rugby varied by missing out the 10 and going one out to Dean instead for crash ball. Rinse and repeat.

Chamberlain - didn't do much but pass looked crisp. Hopefully will have given Cockerill some faith that there is no need to shoehorn someone else ahead of him.

No pointing playing him as they wouldn't pass to him. But Cockers can say see, I do pick youngsters. If you pick a player you have to show proper confidence in him and trust him to play the full role. It became very quickly apparent that Edinburgh had set up to avoid that. Possibly the most attacking back 3 in the league or wider; didn't try to run the ball and get them in space once.

McDowall - was fine but seems a bit more lumbery now. Isn't seeming to hit the line in the same way as when he first came in. Nice play for Tagive's try though.
yeah, Hastings wasn't as crisp in his passing so tough shift but he didn't seem to have progressed. I'm still not sure if he's a 12 or a 13, Glasgow missed Horne or Johnson at 12 playing 2nd receiver and being more creative and showing more acceleration. I had thought McDowall could play that role during international windows at least, when Horne goes to 10 and Johnson with Scotland.

Kinghorn - again, would like to see him get his spark right back. Is playing fine and is very good at some random things (e.g. kickoffs) but seems like the least dangerous of a very dangerous back three.

He was shit. No other way to put it. Hate to say this but he is showing all the signs of the old edinburgh. Complacent and feels he can't be dropped. SHC.
Also, why do refs never penalise the attacking team for holding the tackler in and stopping them rolling away. I'm fed up of refs telling the 9: 'No, it's your man holding him in' and therefore not giving a penalty to the attacking team but not doing anything about the holding. It should be a penalty, holding a man on the ground (especially if you are on the ground too) and trying to deceive the ref are both penalty offences.

yep. I get so fed up with refs coaching players. Just blow the whistle, award pen and tell them why. Radical idea I know, applying the laws

[Cameo]

Jones - will get harder tests but so far has looked very comfortable at fullback and is even stepping in at first receiver. At worst, it makes him a better bench option for Scotland.

its another string to his bow, and he again looked comfortable. He lacks the skill set for 1st receiver and that's a big handicap

Shiel - nothing spectacular but looks comfortable. Delighted to see him penalised for taking more than five seconds after the use it call though could have been several more.
I felt sorry for him.
First, as always its a much tougher gig to star at 9 with the flash breaks when you are on from the start rather than last 10-15mins against tiring defences. The OTT fan boys never get this. Second he was asked to nurse his 10 through the game when he should have been afforded an experienced 10 for his first big(gish) start. And to do that by playing a game unnatural to him. This was typical Cockerill reverting to 10 man rugby varied by missing out the 10 and going one out to Dean instead for crash ball. Rinse and repeat.

Chamberlain - didn't do much but pass looked crisp. Hopefully will have given Cockerill some faith that there is no need to shoehorn someone else ahead of him.

No pointing playing him as they wouldn't pass to him. But Cockers can say see, I do pick youngsters. If you pick a player you have to show proper confidence in him and trust him to play the full role. It became very quickly apparent that Edinburgh had set up to avoid that. Possibly the most attacking back 3 in the league or wider; didn't try to run the ball and get them in space once.

McDowall - was fine but seems a bit more lumbery now. Isn't seeming to hit the line in the same way as when he first came in. Nice play for Tagive's try though.
yeah, Hastings wasn't as crisp in his passing so tough shift but he didn't seem to have progressed. I'm still not sure if he's a 12 or a 13, Glasgow missed Horne or Johnson at 12 playing 2nd receiver and being more creative and showing more acceleration. I had thought McDowall could play that role during international windows at least, when Horne goes to 10 and Johnson with Scotland.

Kinghorn - again, would like to see him get his spark right back. Is playing fine and is very good at some random things (e.g. kickoffs) but seems like the least dangerous of a very dangerous back three.

He was shit. No other way to put it. Hate to say this but he is showing all the signs of the old edinburgh. Complacent and feels he can't be dropped. SHC.
Also, why do refs never penalise the attacking team for holding the tackler in and stopping them rolling away. I'm fed up of refs telling the 9: 'No, it's your man holding him in' and therefore not giving a penalty to the attacking team but not doing anything about the holding. It should be a penalty, holding a man on the ground (especially if you are on the ground too) and trying to deceive the ref are both penalty offences.

yep. I get so fed up with refs coaching players. Just blow the whistle, award pen and tell them why. Radical idea I know, applying the laws

Jones - will never be the best first receiver but I think he has the skills to be a threatening option on the short side. Has put in a few solid kicks and the issue with his passing has always been that it's a bit inconsistent not that he can't do it.

Refs - Yeah, agree. I'm happy for a bit of coaching when it's a judgement call (e.g. let go, tackle completed or hands off, ruck formed) but it feels that we are going towards a position where players feel unfairly done by if the ref gives a penalty without having warned them that they were clearly offending.

[septic 9]

Refs - Yeah, agree. I'm happy for a bit of coaching when it's a judgement call (e.g. let go, tackle completed or hands off, ruck formed) but it feels that we are going towards a position where players feel unfairly done by if the ref gives a penalty without having warned them that they were clearly offending.

problem with any of that is that by the time the ref has called it, the offender has gained an advantage. Its fractions that count especially at higher levels. And the player then keeps doing same with impunity, and every team pushes the ref as far as they can. It has grown like topsy, and rugby needs to reset. Don't call "hands off", call pen advantage. It will improve the game no end and speed it up - if that is what the authorities really want, this is the easiest thing to do. Apply the f'in laws.

[Mikey Brown]

I'm confused how this person they are calling Kiran McDonald is supposed to be the same one that was playing for Glasgow at the beginning of the year.

I'm confused as to why you are confused. Came on for last 4 mins. Couple of run the clock carries and stole/ruined an Edinburgh lineout IRRC

I only meant that he seems to be about 12 shades darker and has no hair.

I thought they’d made a new signing that I’d simply missed.

[septic 9]

I'm confused how this person they are calling Kiran McDonald is supposed to be the same one that was playing for Glasgow at the beginning of the year.

I'm confused as to why you are confused. Came on for last 4 mins. Couple of run the clock carries and stole/ruined an Edinburgh lineout IRRC

I only meant that he seems to be about 12 shades darker and has no hair.

I thought they’d made a new signing that I’d simply missed.

aah!

He has been thinning quite a bit the last 18 months. Happens to the best of us. And he has quite a swath complexion. When I first saw him he was in the academy, I didn't know who he was and from his complexion I thought we'd signed a Kiwi with some Maori heritage

[Mikey Brown]

Yep. Clearly I’m not very observant but I had it in my head he was on the squat side for a lock, with a scrum cap and scruff hair, and err... white. I was just baffled to see they’d found a 9 foot, balding Egyptian man with the exact same name to come in and replace him.

Now I’ve actually looked him up I can see why you thought Maori.

[Cameo]

Refs - Yeah, agree. I'm happy for a bit of coaching when it's a judgement call (e.g. let go, tackle completed or hands off, ruck formed) but it feels that we are going towards a position where players feel unfairly done by if the ref gives a penalty without having warned them that they were clearly offending.

problem with any of that is that by the time the ref has called it, the offender has gained an advantage. Its fractions that count especially at higher levels. And the player then keeps doing same with impunity, and every team pushes the ref as far as they can. It has grown like topsy, and rugby needs to reset. Don't call "hands off", call pen advantage. It will improve the game no end and speed it up - if that is what the authorities really want, this is the easiest thing to do. Apply the f'in laws.

I'm not sure. In theory yes but, in practice there are situations where it is just not clear. I'd like to see more consistent interpretations before refs stopped communicating at all before giving the penalty.

I think we can both agree that they need to stop giving so many warnings though. It's infuriating seeing them warn repeatedly and then thank the player for releasing after his whole team has got back on side and all momentum has been lost.