Brexit delayed

[Digby]

Bj won’t act in good faith, they don’t want to change their strategy, the press are monstrous and won’t report in good faith, and the people are so touchy around the idea of getting it done that any suggestion of a delay is electoral suicide.

Either you take the view that you act with principal or you veer towards the idea I might not agree with the policy but me being in power is the best thing for the country beyond any policy concerns. The latter is hardly unusual in politics, but it tends to come up more in people like Matt Hancock than those who'll do a good job

[Digby]

There is now more clarity on why Keir hasn't spoken out about Brexit. With the online conference coming up Keir and other speakers will be floating the balloon on the nationalism front looking to see what messages work with the red wall as was and keep the prospective middle class voters happy.

Given the intent is to build a message based on patriotic belief, and I think that rather than fervour, they were hesitant to speak out on Brexit. I'm still left concluding I get Brexit is a minefield, but Keir asked for the chance to walk out there and it's possible you should have something to say as the opposition about the government breaking their manifesto and more importantly the law. Maybe you'd blow yourself up on the minefield, but so what, they'd find another leader, it's a better a look to me than being too worried to say anything for fear you might offend or lose votes.

It isn't clear right now if there'll be a more defined position on Brexit than head in the sand after the conference, possibly that'll depend on whether the conference is a success. What a success might be is probably something rather specific in terms of adding back in traditional Labour support, it might well not look much of anything as a general view from the outside

[Son of Mathonwy]

There is now more clarity on why Keir hasn't spoken out about Brexit. With the online conference coming up Keir and other speakers will be floating the balloon on the nationalism front looking to see what messages work with the red wall as was and keep the prospective middle class voters happy.

Given the intent is to build a message based on patriotic belief, and I think that rather than fervour, they were hesitant to speak out on Brexit. I'm still left concluding I get Brexit is a minefield, but Keir asked for the chance to walk out there and it's possible you should have something to say as the opposition about the government breaking their manifesto and more importantly the law. Maybe you'd blow yourself up on the minefield, but so what, they'd find another leader, it's a better a look to me than being too worried to say anything for fear you might offend or lose votes.

It isn't clear right now if there'll be a more defined position on Brexit than head in the sand after the conference, possibly that'll depend on whether the conference is a success. What a success might be is probably something rather specific in terms of adding back in traditional Labour support, it might well not look much of anything as a general view from the outside

'So what' to you or me perhaps, but the fact that it's Starmer personally at risk of blowing up that might explain the current strategy.

A lot of former and potential Labour voters have tied their intellectual(?) and emotional flags to the Brexit mast and will not feel pleasantly inclined towards someone who rubs their error in their faces (notwithstanding many of them never see it as an error since they'll blame any Brexit downside on those treacherous Europeans anyway). So, better to steer clear of it and watch the Tories rip themselves up even more. Covid-19 is beginning to loom large again anyway, plenty to get stuck into, and more viciously this time.

Also, the strategy isn't looking too bad here (latest poll shows Tories and Labour tied):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p ... l_election

[Digby]

I can see what he's trying to do, but I think he'll get painted into a corner anyway, it looks gutless to stick his head in the sand, and there are simply too many important issues this will impact on for him to hope to tinker on the margins without addressing the whole. Then again voters as Brexit has shown are thick as shit

I will wait with interest to see what Starmer thinks is a rallying nationalistic speech

[Digby]

Panorama tonight is well worth catching up on if you fancy being embarrassed to be British and fancy being angry at banks, criminals and politicians/regulators who are too often indistinguishable in pursuit of money laundering. It's all already known and only a tip of the iceberg, but it's worth keeping in mind it's a horrendous absuse of our capital system in pursuit of nothing bar greed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... d-powerful

I mention this on the Brexit thread because getting us out of the EU before reporting came in on the sort of affair was seemingly when the Tory party lurched from having a lunatic fringe pushing anti EU ramblings that was largely ignored to being a matter of national interest.

Brexit, tough on investigating crime, tough on the causes of investigating crime.

[Digby]

Just terrific news that deal or no deal lorries will soon need permission to enter Kent. I suppose it does at least remove some of the concerns around having border issues on the border, but it's crappy solution to a problem that was never needed

[Son of Mathonwy]

Just terrific news that deal or no deal lorries will soon need permission to enter Kent. I suppose it does at least remove some of the concerns around having border issues on the border, but it's crappy solution to a problem that was never needed

Interesting that a border down the Irish Sea is unacceptable but one between Kent and the rest of Great Britain is fine.

Imagine if the EU was imposing this Kent 'lorry border' on the UK. imagine what Boris and the Tory press would be saying.

[Digby]

Just terrific news that deal or no deal lorries will soon need permission to enter Kent. I suppose it does at least remove some of the concerns around having border issues on the border, but it's crappy solution to a problem that was never needed

Interesting that a border down the Irish Sea is unacceptable but one between Kent and the rest of Great Britain is fine.

Imagine if the EU was imposing this Kent 'lorry border' on the UK. imagine what Boris and the Tory press would be saying.

It's just very, very weird. Still, gotta love the new (old?) blue (nearly black) passports being made in France, so it's all totally worth it

[Which Tyler]

After spending the last few weeks telling the whole world that were going to deliberately and knowingly break the law, we now seem surprised that the EU is taking legal action against us.

I'm sure we hold all the cards again though.

Mind, I'm not sure how useful cards are when we seem to be playing Russian Roulette... with all 6 bullets in situ.

[Which Tyler]

[Digby]

is that there'll be no list because we'll fold to EU demands that we meet the terms of the deal we made and signed up to, or that one item does not a series make, or that there'll be a list but it's a secret list?

[Which Tyler]

is that there'll be no list because we'll fold to EU demands that we meet the terms of the deal we made and signed up to, or that one item does not a series make, or that there'll be a list but it's a secret list?

That depends on how much has been leaked, and whether they need a dead at to distract people with.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I wonder how the EU's legal action will play with the voters.

Obviously to Brexiteers it will simply demonstrate how treacherous the Europeans are. And remainers will not begrudge the EU from taking action permitted in Boris's oven-ready deal.

But the undecided ... how will they see it, I wonder*? I've got a horrible suspicion that this kind of apparent (although entirely understandable) antagonism from the EU will make it easy to paint them as the bad guys (at least for those who are uninformed/uninterested in politics).


*And it's this kind of question which leads directly to the current attempts to install some delightful chaps to powerful media positions.

[Sandydragon]

I wonder how the EU's legal action will play with the voters.

Obviously to Brexiteers it will simply demonstrate how treacherous the Europeans are. And remainers will not begrudge the EU from taking action permitted in Boris's oven-ready deal.

But the undecided ... how will they see it, I wonder*? I've got a horrible suspicion that this kind of apparent (although entirely understandable) antagonism from the EU will make it easy to paint them as the bad guys (at least for those who are uninformed/uninterested in politics).


*And it's this kind of question which leads directly to the current attempts to install some delightful chaps to powerful media positions.

It will definitely increase anti EU sentiment. Pretty much guaranteed.

[Puja]

A Brexit deal that's oven-ready.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

A Brexit deal that's oven-ready.

Puja

The bullshitter can't bring himself to say no deal. Still trying to confuse the ignorant with the idea that we'll have an "Australia-style deal".

[Sandydragon]

A Brexit deal that's oven-ready.

Puja

Typical food ready to serve. Looks good then the taste let’s you down.

I’m convinced that no deal was the objective from the beginning. If they were prepared to cut NI loose then throwing our fishermen over the side wouldn’t have been an issue. The hard Brexiteers have got what they wanted, despite that not being what the leave campaigns campaigned for.

[Son of Mathonwy]

The UK's credit rating is now 3 notches down since 2016, from AAA, to AA1, to AA2 and now to AA3.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... h-concerns

[Which Tyler]

ProJEct f3Ar

[Puja]

A Brexit deal that's oven-ready.

Puja

Jesus Christ, I'd almost forgotten about the EU referendum. It feels like that happened a lifetime ago.

Oh no, that little titbit was Boris's claim ahead of the General Election last November, when he ran on "Get Brexit Done" and claimed to have a withdrawal deal that was "oven ready" and just needed to be ratified if he and his party were voted in.

Shockingly, that doesn't seem to have happened; not sure why.

Puja

[Digby]

So soy sauce (or soya sauce as the Department for International Trade calls it) will be cheaper so say DIT thanks to our deal with Japan. This only ignores the deal with Japan will see the same tariff, 0%, as we currently face, and further ignores that we import less than 20% of a soy sauce from Japan, most comes from Holland.

[Son of Mathonwy]

So soy sauce (or soya sauce as the Department for International Trade calls it) will be cheaper so say DIT thanks to our deal with Japan. This only ignores the deal with Japan will see the same tariff, 0%, as we currently face, and further ignores that we import less than 20% of a soy sauce from Japan, most comes from Holland.

Prepare for a heavy downpour of lies from the government over the next few months.

It's a bit like the 50000 "more" nurses lie during the election campaign. "More" than what exactly? In normal human discourse, unless told otherwise we assume that "more" or "cheaper" must be a comparison with the current situation. This government isn't bound by such conventions. In other words they're a bunch of lying bastards.

[Digby]

So soy sauce (or soya sauce as the Department for International Trade calls it) will be cheaper so say DIT thanks to our deal with Japan. This only ignores the deal with Japan will see the same tariff, 0%, as we currently face, and further ignores that we import less than 20% of a soy sauce from Japan, most comes from Holland.

Prepare for a heavy downpour of lies from the government over the next few months.

It's a bit like the 50000 "more" nurses lie during the election campaign. "More" than what exactly? In normal human discourse, unless told otherwise we assume that "more" or "cheaper" must be a comparison with the current situation. This government isn't bound by such conventions. In other words they're a bunch of lying bastards.

It's a little worrying to get confirmation they really are as clueless as they appear.

[Galfon]

A 250g. bottle of Soy sauce costs about the same as the equivalent wt. jar of Marmite. (under 3 quid usually) and probably lasts a lot longer. Can't see it being a game changer.

[Digby]

What bothers me is they put out a tweet extolling the virtues of a deal, presumably because someone thought they needed a good news story, and the DIT thought not understanding the deal and not understanding a product was sufficient to make a declarative statement, and these same people are involved one assumes in other actions, and they clearly can't tell shit from Shinola

In essence better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than...