Le Crunch

[Raggs]

That was by far the best match to watch -
Farrell like anybody can have a bad day at the office but he’s not our best 12 and certainly not our best 10 so does he really merit a starting berth? I guess whilst England keep winning Eddie can justify (at least to himself and a rather sycophantic rugby press) that that is all that counts.

Billy put in a tremendous defensive effort and fair enough got motm - I continue to maintain he’s easier to stop than a few years back and England have no credible plan B to him. Also think Underhill and Curry would benefit from switching flank berths, the justification of picking Underhill at 7 because he’s quick off defensive scrums (or whatever it was) is starting to wring hollow - he’s more a 6 than 7 and the reverse for Curry imo.

Also the fullback situation is as unsettled (and unresolved) as the centre partnership. On the plus side Launch and Itoje are beautifully balanced imo!

How is it "wringing" hollow? And what's the difference between the 6 and the 7 in how England play?

[fivepointer]

Things looking very good for France. They've long had the talent but now seem to have the discipline and resolve. Obviously the input of the Englishman Shaun Edwards shouldnt be underestimated

Farrell - who really was by a long way our worst player of the autumn - seems to have secured squatters rights to a place in the side. I do wonder what actually dropping him might do. As it is, he can play like a drain, week in and week out, and still get picked.
That cannot be a good thing when we have alternatives available.

[Mikey Brown]

That was by far the best match to watch -
Farrell like anybody can have a bad day at the office but he’s not our best 12 and certainly not our best 10 so does he really merit a starting berth? I guess whilst England keep winning Eddie can justify (at least to himself and a rather sycophantic rugby press) that that is all that counts.

Billy put in a tremendous defensive effort and fair enough got motm - I continue to maintain he’s easier to stop than a few years back and England have no credible plan B to him. Also think Underhill and Curry would benefit from switching flank berths, the justification of picking Underhill at 7 because he’s quick off defensive scrums (or whatever it was) is starting to wring hollow - he’s more a 6 than 7 and the reverse for Curry imo.

Also the fullback situation is as unsettled (and unresolved) as the centre partnership. On the plus side Launch and Itoje are beautifully balanced imo!

How is it "wringing" hollow? And what's the difference between the 6 and the 7 in how England play?

Are you honestly expecting a response?

Underhill just had a bad day.

Curry continues to impress with his multiple USPs including being a very powerful carrier. Almost looked like a number 8 at times.

[morepork]

Things looking very good for France. They've long had the talent but now seem to have the discipline and resolve. Obviously the input of the Englishman Shaun Edwards shouldnt be underestimated

Farrell - who really was by a long way our worst player of the autumn - seems to have secured squatters rights to a place in the side. I do wonder what actually dropping him might do. As it is, he can play like a drain, week in and week out, and still get picked.
That cannot be a good thing when we have alternatives available.

That has to make for a pretty tense dressing room.

[morepork]

"Dressing room"?

[Scrumhead]

That was by far the best match to watch -
Farrell like anybody can have a bad day at the office but he’s not our best 12 and certainly not our best 10 so does he really merit a starting berth? I guess whilst England keep winning Eddie can justify (at least to himself and a rather sycophantic rugby press) that that is all that counts.

Billy put in a tremendous defensive effort and fair enough got motm - I continue to maintain he’s easier to stop than a few years back and England have no credible plan B to him. Also think Underhill and Curry would benefit from switching flank berths, the justification of picking Underhill at 7 because he’s quick off defensive scrums (or whatever it was) is starting to wring hollow - he’s more a 6 than 7 and the reverse for Curry imo.

Also the fullback situation is as unsettled (and unresolved) as the centre partnership. On the plus side Launch and Itoje are beautifully balanced imo!

How is it "wringing" hollow? And what's the difference between the 6 and the 7 in how England play?

Are you honestly expecting a response?

Underhill just had a bad day.

Curry continues to impress with his multiple USPs including being a very powerful carrier. Almost looked like a number 8 at times.

I strongly suspect Curry and Underhill could swap shirts, play the exact same roles they do now and jngf would say they’d both had brilliant games.

If anything is ‘ringing hollow’ (without the superfluous w), it’s jngf’s constant repetition of the same old sh*t.

[Digby]

"Dressing room"?

We don't judge

[Mr Mwenda]

"Dressing room"?

We don't judge

Where else would one find the finishers?

[loudnconfident]

More exciting than I expected; nowt to add but:

Ford had a good minute 78. Sidestepping the French 14 - at a vital moment - and nailing the penalty to touch

Why no chasers for the Farrell penalties? I remember Robshaw catching the rebound in Oz 2016

[Mikey Brown]

More exciting than I expected; nowt to add but:

Ford had a good minute 78. Sidestepping the French 14 - at a vital moment - and nailing the penalty to touch

Why no chasers for the Farrell penalties? I remember Robshaw catching the rebound in Oz 2016

Why would you waste your energy? As far as I’m aware he’s never missed. And if he has it probably wasn’t important.

[FKAS]

How is it "wringing" hollow? And what's the difference between the 6 and the 7 in how England play?

Are you honestly expecting a response?

Underhill just had a bad day.

Curry continues to impress with his multiple USPs including being a very powerful carrier. Almost looked like a number 8 at times.

I strongly suspect Curry and Underhill could swap shirts, play the exact same roles they do now and jngf would say they’d both had brilliant games.

If anything is ‘ringing hollow’ (without the superfluous w), it’s jngf’s constant repetition of the same old sh*t.

Doesn't matter what shirt he was wearing it was rare bad day at the office for Underhill. Conceded to many penalties and was then hooked shortly after half time. Presumably just enough time for Earl to finish warming up. He's otherwise been excellent this Autumn so an interesting sub plot ahead of the 6N. The contest for those backrow shirts is ridiculous.

Launchbury getting hooked early with Hill sent on to help the lineout and add some aggression. Another shirt that could change hands around 6N time. Will Lawes be back by then as well?

[loudnconfident]

More exciting than I expected; nowt to add but:

Ford had a good minute 78. Sidestepping the French 14 - at a vital moment - and nailing the penalty to touch

Why no chasers for the Farrell penalties? I remember Robshaw catching the rebound in Oz 2016

Why would you waste your energy? As far as I’m aware he’s never missed. And if he has it probably wasn’t important.

I suppose one could jump delightedly with arms aloft and try and get in the replay as the ball sails majestically through the posts...

But you - personally - must have been happy that we had a proper FB after Malins came on? (Rather than a winger)

[Oakboy]

More exciting than I expected; nowt to add but:

Ford had a good minute 78. Sidestepping the French 14 - at a vital moment - and nailing the penalty to touch

Why no chasers for the Farrell penalties? I remember Robshaw catching the rebound in Oz 2016

Why would you waste your energy? As far as I’m aware he’s never missed. And if he has it probably wasn’t important.

It certainly would not have been his fault.

[Digby]

More exciting than I expected; nowt to add but:

Ford had a good minute 78. Sidestepping the French 14 - at a vital moment - and nailing the penalty to touch

Why no chasers for the Farrell penalties? I remember Robshaw catching the rebound in Oz 2016

Why would you waste your energy? As far as I’m aware he’s never missed. And if he has it probably wasn’t important.

I suppose one could jump delightedly with arms aloft and try and get in the replay as the ball sails majestically through the posts...

But you - personally - must have been happy that we had a proper FB after Malins came on? (Rather than a winger)

I've long argued 10 and 15 have a lot in common, though whether a 10 is a proper fullback in a way a centre/winger isn't I don't know.

[p/d]

Why no chasers for the Farrell penalties? I remember Robshaw catching the rebound in Oz 2016

Indeed. Looked like LCD did a solo chase on the one that hit the post.

Also, would have liked to have seen a replay of France kick off where Curry appeared to have secured a cracking turnover...... but I might not have remembered it correctly

[Banquo]

There were a number of times when one had to straighten but we continued to just ship it on giving our wide boys absolutely nothing to work with. This was highlighted when Daly didn’t fix the defence and just shipped a crap pass out to Watson, killing off any threat

True Daly did poorly twice. But my point remains, though could add poor lines in midfield. Even Malins was making ground but dying with it.

Who going to run the lines in midfield though? The two lightweight wingers or the two that really want to go on the outside arc Slade and Daly, definitely won't be stand flat waiting to ship bad ball to the wing Farrell. Backline selection was horrific. Ford did well to get any level of penetration going.

The kicking tactics are simple. If it isn't obviously on after two or three phases play for territory. If it's on go. There's not a lot of point playing lots of phases in the centre of the park if you're not going anywhere because eventually you concede a penalty and end up defending in your 22. Play territory and normally you end with a lineout just inside the opposition half then it's rolling maul pen and 3 points or launch a move off of first phase.

Agreed- that’s my point, toothless midfield.
And the kicking is obvious, but obviously poorly done and the wrong call against this French team. At least by going through a couple more phases you have a chance to move the backfield round a bit; instead of which we just kicked it down Dulins throat. It’s simply too blunt a weapon if done thoughtfully- and we aren’t especially good at getting the ball back tbh from ‘50/50’. If you are going to kick, kick well.

[Banquo]

Are you honestly expecting a response?

Underhill just had a bad day.

Curry continues to impress with his multiple USPs including being a very powerful carrier. Almost looked like a number 8 at times.

I strongly suspect Curry and Underhill could swap shirts, play the exact same roles they do now and jngf would say they’d both had brilliant games.

If anything is ‘ringing hollow’ (without the superfluous w), it’s jngf’s constant repetition of the same old sh*t.

Doesn't matter what shirt he was wearing it was rare bad day at the office for Underhill. Conceded to many penalties and was then hooked shortly after half time. Presumably just enough time for Earl to finish warming up. He's otherwise been excellent this Autumn so an interesting sub plot ahead of the 6N. The contest for those backrow shirts is ridiculous.

Launchbury getting hooked early with Hill sent on to help the lineout and add some aggression. Another shirt that could change hands around 6N time. Will Lawes be back by then as well?

Sent on to help the lineout which we promptly lost :)

[Mikey Brown]

More exciting than I expected; nowt to add but:

Ford had a good minute 78. Sidestepping the French 14 - at a vital moment - and nailing the penalty to touch

Why no chasers for the Farrell penalties? I remember Robshaw catching the rebound in Oz 2016

Why would you waste your energy? As far as I’m aware he’s never missed. And if he has it probably wasn’t important.

But you - personally - must have been happy that we had a proper FB after Malins came on? (Rather than a winger)

Yes it’s been painful getting ditched for Daly - unable to catch a high ball or provide a solid last line of defence - and watching him now also being unable to run, kick or pass. I would have either scored or put Watson away once or twice today.

[Puja]

And the kicking is obvious, but obviously poorly done and the wrong call against this French team. At least by going through a couple more phases you have a chance to move the backfield round a bit; instead of which we just kicked it down Dulins throat. It’s simply too blunt a weapon if done thoughtfully- and we aren’t especially good at getting the ball back tbh from ‘50/50’. If you are going to kick, kick well.

Doubly so because the French blatantly set at least three men back deep on every single phase of English possession in our half, because they *knew* we weren't going to do anything else.

Puja

[FKAS]

I strongly suspect Curry and Underhill could swap shirts, play the exact same roles they do now and jngf would say they’d both had brilliant games.

If anything is ‘ringing hollow’ (without the superfluous w), it’s jngf’s constant repetition of the same old sh*t.

Doesn't matter what shirt he was wearing it was rare bad day at the office for Underhill. Conceded to many penalties and was then hooked shortly after half time. Presumably just enough time for Earl to finish warming up. He's otherwise been excellent this Autumn so an interesting sub plot ahead of the 6N. The contest for those backrow shirts is ridiculous.

Launchbury getting hooked early with Hill sent on to help the lineout and add some aggression. Another shirt that could change hands around 6N time. Will Lawes be back by then as well?

Sent on to help the lineout which we promptly lost :)

very true though the lineout did improve over the second half. I'm not sure if that wasn't because Wookie went off though he seemed to be the thorn in our side.

[Banquo]

And the kicking is obvious, but obviously poorly done and the wrong call against this French team. At least by going through a couple more phases you have a chance to move the backfield round a bit; instead of which we just kicked it down Dulins throat. It’s simply too blunt a weapon if done thoughtfully- and we aren’t especially good at getting the ball back tbh from ‘50/50’. If you are going to kick, kick well.

Doubly so because the French blatantly set at least three men back deep on every single phase of English possession in our half, because they *knew* we weren't going to do anything else.

Puja

yep. And at least for an hour they won the aerial tennis. They also kicked the leather off it in fairness, cos they knew they'd get it back

[Banquo]

Doesn't matter what shirt he was wearing it was rare bad day at the office for Underhill. Conceded to many penalties and was then hooked shortly after half time. Presumably just enough time for Earl to finish warming up. He's otherwise been excellent this Autumn so an interesting sub plot ahead of the 6N. The contest for those backrow shirts is ridiculous.

Launchbury getting hooked early with Hill sent on to help the lineout and add some aggression. Another shirt that could change hands around 6N time. Will Lawes be back by then as well?

Sent on to help the lineout which we promptly lost :)

very true though the lineout did improve over the second half. I'm not sure if that wasn't because Wookie went off though he seemed to be the thorn in our side.

We seemed to be trying new and overcomplicated drills- George looked unusually confused in the first half.

[Scrumhead]

Are you honestly expecting a response?

Underhill just had a bad day.

Curry continues to impress with his multiple USPs including being a very powerful carrier. Almost looked like a number 8 at times.

I strongly suspect Curry and Underhill could swap shirts, play the exact same roles they do now and jngf would say they’d both had brilliant games.

If anything is ‘ringing hollow’ (without the superfluous w), it’s jngf’s constant repetition of the same old sh*t.

Doesn't matter what shirt he was wearing it was rare bad day at the office for Underhill. Conceded to many penalties and was then hooked shortly after half time. Presumably just enough time for Earl to finish warming up. He's otherwise been excellent this Autumn so an interesting sub plot ahead of the 6N. The contest for those backrow shirts is ridiculous.

Launchbury getting hooked early with Hill sent on to help the lineout and add some aggression. Another shirt that could change hands around 6N time. Will Lawes be back by then as well?

No debate about that. Underhill arguably had his worst game for England.

I was simply saying that jngf’s obsession on the shirt numbers bears no relation to the players’ actual performance. Curry wearing 6 is automatically ‘mediocre’ according to jngf.

[Oakboy]

And the kicking is obvious, but obviously poorly done and the wrong call against this French team. At least by going through a couple more phases you have a chance to move the backfield round a bit; instead of which we just kicked it down Dulins throat. It’s simply too blunt a weapon if done thoughtfully- and we aren’t especially good at getting the ball back tbh from ‘50/50’. If you are going to kick, kick well.

Doubly so because the French blatantly set at least three men back deep on every single phase of English possession in our half, because they *knew* we weren't going to do anything else.

Puja

yep. And at least for an hour they won the aerial tennis. They also kicked the leather off it in fairness, cos they knew they'd get it back

It always seems to me that the statistics-led obsession with unforced/'unchased' kicking is tactically inept if the opposition does the same only better. At that point in a game, a quality-coached side does something different. We don't.

[TheDasher]

I knew it was coming but, did anyone else sit up in their seat whenever Malins accelerated from a standing start? I'm not sure I've ever seen anything like it, he looks absolutely lighting rapid over that first 20 metres.