East Midlands Derby, aka the big one

[FKAS]

TIGERS XV
[club appearances in brackets]

15 Freddie Steward [28]

14 Kobus Van Wyk [10]

13 Matt Scott [19]

12 Dan Kelly [14]

11 Kini Murimurivalu [15]

10 George Ford [101]

9 Ben Youngs [256]

1 Ellis Genge [82]

2 Tom Youngs [209] (c)

3 Dan Cole [257]

4 Harry Wells [117]

5 Calum Green [55]

6 Hanro Liebenberg [28]

7 Luke Wallace [15]

8 Jasper Wiese [12]

REPLACEMENTS

16 Charlie Clare [27]

17 Luan de Bruin [13]

18 Joe Heyes [63]

19 Tomás Lavanini [31]

20 Cyle Brink [12]

21 Jack Van Poortvliet [17]

22 Zack Henry [20]

23 Nemani Nadolo [9]

Northampton Saints: 15 George Furbank, 14 Matt Proctor, 13 Rory Hutchinson, 12 Piers Francis, 11 Ollie Sleightholme, 10 Dan Biggar, 9 Alex Mitchell; 1 Alex Waller (cc), 2 Sam Matavesi, 3 Ehren Painter, 4 David Ribbans, 5 Alex Moon, 6 Tom Wood, 7 Lewis Ludlam (cc), 8 Teimana Harrison

Replacements: 16 Mike Haywood, 17 Nick Auterac, 18 Paul Hill, 19 Alex Coles, 20 Shaun Adendorff, 21 Tom James, 22 Ahsee Tuala, 23 Tommy Freeman

Great to see Nadolo and Brink back from injury. Looks like this should be a good physical contest. The good weather might suit Saints more than Tigers though.

[Adam_P]

Really looking forward to this - feels like a long time since we clashed whilst both teams were playing some reasonable quality rugby.

Real shame we won't get to see Freeman vs Steward from the off, and I'd like to have seen Naiyaravoro and Nadolo clash

[fivepointer]

Genge v Painter might be influential.
Youngs v Mitchell should be good to watch and then we get JvP v James.
Tigers efficiency at set piece and maul might prove decisive.

[Banquo]

Shame Freeman isn't starting, shame Fraser D isn't in the squad, and shame that Coles is benching . Saints are doing well in squad building though.

Good to see JVP on the bench rather than das Wiggler. Is Martin crocked?

[Adam_P]

Aye I would have liked to see Dingwall retained as he's extremely robust and intelligent defensively, but what Hutch lacks in D he makes up for going forwards - so hopefully we do lots of going forward!

Moon over Coles is a close shout at the moment, but I imagine we're looking to get parity at scrum time so the bigger man gets in. Shame not to see Isiekwe invovled, but he has probably earned a breather. Wood will be well up for this anyway so not a bad switch.

[FKAS]

Shame Freeman isn't starting, shame Fraser D isn't in the squad, and shame that Coles is benching . Saints are doing well in squad building though.

Good to see JVP on the bench rather than das Wiggler. Is Martin crocked?

Martin is rested. Borthwick has rotated Reffell, Moroni and Martin out for a rest week. Makes sense with Scott, Liebenburg and Wallace all ready to come in. Much like Saints the development of a squad is coming along nicely.

[Banquo]

Shame Freeman isn't starting, shame Fraser D isn't in the squad, and shame that Coles is benching . Saints are doing well in squad building though.

Good to see JVP on the bench rather than das Wiggler. Is Martin crocked?

Martin is rested. Borthwick has rotated Reffell, Moroni and Martin out for a rest week. Makes sense with Scott, Liebenburg and Wallace all ready to come in. Much like Saints the development of a squad is coming along nicely.

albeit Saints are doing it mainly without many imports....

[Tigersman]

Academy products wise it is prob close.
Tigers 10 academy products
Saints 10 academy products

(By academy I count U18's)

[Banquo]

Academy products wise it is prob close.
Tigers 10 academy products
Saints 10 academy products

(By academy I count U18's)

often its what's unsaid that counts

[Scrumhead]

Shame Freeman isn't starting, shame Fraser D isn't in the squad, and shame that Coles is benching . Saints are doing well in squad building though.

Good to see JVP on the bench rather than das Wiggler. Is Martin crocked?

Martin is rested. Borthwick has rotated Reffell, Moroni and Martin out for a rest week. Makes sense with Scott, Liebenburg and Wallace all ready to come in. Much like Saints the development of a squad is coming along nicely.

albeit Saints are doing it mainly without many imports....

I count more academy products for Tigers than Saints. Not much in it, but Biggar are still an import even though he hasn’t come far and the likes of Ribbans and Harrison may have come to prominence at Saints but they’re still imports too.

[Banquo]

Martin is rested. Borthwick has rotated Reffell, Moroni and Martin out for a rest week. Makes sense with Scott, Liebenburg and Wallace all ready to come in. Much like Saints the development of a squad is coming along nicely.

albeit Saints are doing it mainly without many imports....

I count more academy products for Tigers than Saints. Not much in it, but Biggar are still an import even though he hasn’t come far and the likes of Ribbans and Harrison may have come to prominence at Saints but they’re still imports too.

Congrats on the counting, but it strikes me that Saints have a more cohesive development policy. But really I was pulling the Tigers fans legs.

(I don't really think you can count Harrison (joined at 20) as an import in the same way as say Scott, Van Wyk, Liebenburg, Wiese, Murimurivalu ....though you might counter with Proctor . I'm more referring to how many imports Tigers have gone for in the last season or two, v Saints. But no facts )

On a serious note, good to see Saints with so many EQPs or local grown (Hutchinson) (and links with my club paying off) and Tigers developing the likes of JVP, Steward and Martin.

[Mellsblue]

Ffs. Came on here thinking Bedford were playing Cambridge on their bye week. What a disappointment.

[Mellsblue]

Wtf did Hill gas on the outside?!?!?
Edit: Uren. Talk about taking the piss.

[FKAS]

albeit Saints are doing it mainly without many imports....

I count more academy products for Tigers than Saints. Not much in it, but Biggar are still an import even though he hasn’t come far and the likes of Ribbans and Harrison may have come to prominence at Saints but they’re still imports too.

Congrats on the counting, but it strikes me that Saints have a more cohesive development policy. But really I was pulling the Tigers fans legs.

(I don't really think you can count Harrison (joined at 20) as an import in the same way as say Scott, Van Wyk, Liebenburg, Wiese, Murimurivalu ....though you might counter with Proctor . I'm more referring to how many imports Tigers have gone for in the last season or two, v Saints. But no facts )

On a serious note, good to see Saints with so many EQPs or local grown (Hutchinson) (and links with my club paying off) and Tigers developing the likes of JVP, Steward and Martin.

Well we had to improve the quality of the squad so imports were required. Saints haven't been shy about bringing in quality either and no team is. Tigers when a force had a core from Leicester but weren't shy of bringing in others who had the required quality. Liebenburg was the backrow leader we desperately needed, Weise and Brink the ball carrying monsters. Scott replaced Eastmond, Moroni replaced Manu after they chose to leave rather take pay cuts. Club did well in a short time frame with those signings.

If Saints are allowed to claim Harrison we're claiming Kelly.

[Banquo]

I count more academy products for Tigers than Saints. Not much in it, but Biggar are still an import even though he hasn’t come far and the likes of Ribbans and Harrison may have come to prominence at Saints but they’re still imports too.

Congrats on the counting, but it strikes me that Saints have a more cohesive development policy. But really I was pulling the Tigers fans legs.

(I don't really think you can count Harrison (joined at 20) as an import in the same way as say Scott, Van Wyk, Liebenburg, Wiese, Murimurivalu ....though you might counter with Proctor . I'm more referring to how many imports Tigers have gone for in the last season or two, v Saints. But no facts )

On a serious note, good to see Saints with so many EQPs or local grown (Hutchinson) (and links with my club paying off) and Tigers developing the likes of JVP, Steward and Martin.

Well we had to improve the quality of the squad so imports were required. Saints haven't been shy about bringing in quality either and no team is. Tigers when a force had a core from Leicester but weren't shy of bringing in others who had the required quality. Liebenburg was the backrow leader we desperately needed, Weise and Brink the ball carrying monsters. Scott replaced Eastmond, Moroni replaced Manu after they chose to leave rather take pay cuts. Club did well in a short time frame with those signings.

If Saints are allowed to claim Harrison we're claiming Kelly.

....I`m mildly taking the mickey, but Tigers have been bolstering with imports - of um variable quality for a long time. They do look to have turned a bit of a corner. Boyd started backing development a bit earlier, and it may pay after a big hiccup.

[FKAS]

Yeah we were behind on the redevelopment front. Cockers and MOC having the mentality of "we are the head coach of the first team" and hence showing no interest in developing any player that didn't emerge from the academy ready for the first team was less than ideal. The massive academy overhaul about 5 years ago took time to restart the conveyor belt as well.

Problem with a lot of the prior recruitment was that because there was no development pathway we were overpaying foreign journeymen to fill out the squad spaces. Now there's cheap development players in those roles so we can use the funds more wisely. We were some distance behind everyone else on that. Well that an plugging the gaps up front with massive Saffas don't knock the best forward production line in the world that for reason we didn't use for about a decade.

[Banquo]

Yeah we were behind on the redevelopment front. Cockers and MOC having the mentality of "we are the head coach of the first team" and hence showing no interest in developing any player that didn't emerge from the academy ready for the first team was less than ideal. The massive academy overhaul about 5 years ago took time to restart the conveyor belt as well.

Problem with a lot of the prior recruitment was that because there was no development pathway we were overpaying foreign journeymen to fill out the squad spaces. Now there's cheap development players in those roles so we can use the funds more wisely. We were some distance behind everyone else on that. Well that an plugging the gaps up front with massive Saffas don't knock the best forward production line in the world that for reason we didn't use for about a decade.

Yup- its good to see they've worked out a better strategy.

[Adam_P]

Painter, Sleights and Harrison out with last minute injuries. Not ideal at all.

[FKAS]

Dunno the three guys that have come in have all looked really good so far. Adendorff is Saints best player at the minute.

Saints have looked confident and straight into their stride from the off. Steward has made two try savers already and just couldn't make a third from 1m out against Ribbans.

[FKAS]

And then the ref allows to Saints players to swim up the side and collapse the mail. We should have learnt this from last time Dickson does not ref the rolling maul well.

[FKAS]

Good officiating of the Ludlam tackle to the head of Kelly. Unavoidable, always trying to make a legal tackle and Kelly fell into him.

[Adam_P]

Aye I'm a big fan of Addendorf, Freeman and Hill - but certainly Harrison and Sleights are big losses.

Healey should never be allowed to commentate Tigers. Trying to suggest Ludlam railed a shoulder into the head there. Ben Kay on the other hand remains very even handed and one of the top pundits

[Mikey Brown]

Was that George Ford the interception thrower yet again?

[Adam_P]

If its not spiral bombs, it's intercepted passes

[FKAS]

Was that George Ford the interception thrower yet again?

It was. Pretty poor all round there from Tigers but Hutchinson did well so credit to him, if he gets that wrong Tigers score.

Saints look far more clinical and confident. The Saints discipline is poor though and they've been marched back twice for dissent as well as losing the penalty count 5-1 I think. It's what's keeping Tigers in the game.