EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[Scrumhead]

No. But not a surprise. 9-10mths is a pretty standard lay off for this type of injury

[Puja]

Interesting article about Jonny May behind the telegraph paywall: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... gland-spot

The old adage about bad things coming in threes rang painfully true for Jonny May at the back end of last season.

Coming off of a disappointing Six Nations campaign, the England wing damaged the ligaments in his left ankle. For weeks, May trained and played through the pain, hoping to catch Warren Gatland’s eye. Yet he was never able to recapture his best form and when the Lions squad was announced the celebrations in the Gloucester squad were for Chris Harris and Louis Rees-Zammit rather than May.

And then May got Covid. Not the non-symptomatic or slightly sniffly kind. Rather he was laid up in bed feeling like “dust” for the best part of two weeks. The combination of personal disappointment, illness and injury was quite the triple whammy.

“I was in bad place for a good couple of weeks,” May said. “I hurt my ankle, had the scans and I was still hoping to go on (the Lions) tour because I thought I could get picked.

“Not to get picked was disappointing. I had played as hard as I could to get on that tour, but you can’t control selection - that’s just the way it is. Then I got Covid so that left me in a bit of a rut. I was in bed for a couple of weeks with a sore ankle. I was disappointed, hurt, ill. So, yeah, it wasn’t great.

“This is not the first tough block I have come across in rugby and it won’t be the last. There are times when the game challenges you and that’s when your family are there for you. This summer was a bit of a low but I have to accept it for what it is and push on.”

As soon as he was able to physically climb out of his bed, May started clawing back his lost fitness. In previous summers, May has flown to the United States to work on his sprinting at the Michael Johnson’s performance centre. While he continued to receive online tutoring from Dan Pfaff, who has coached Andre de Grasse, who won the men’s 200m at the Tokyo Olympics, May also rocked up at his local athletics club, Cheltenham Harriers who took him under their wing.

“There are some pretty fast 20-year-olds, but I was working from the ground up,” May said. “I got some good work in. I hit a new personal best for my acceleration and I was running at 98 per cent of top velocity so that’s exactly where you want to be approaching your peak come the start of the season.”

Taking it easy and putting his feet up simply was not a choice for May, who England head coach Eddie Jones rates as the most dedicated professional. “It was not a case of what do I do now because that is all I know,” May said. “I am not the sort of guy to relax. That’s not me. I am pretty constant. I don’t know what else to do with myself. If you give me time off I will go to the gym. It is just what I am programmed to do it seems."

The youngsters at Cheltenham Harriers are not the only ones who will be keeping May on his toes. With Jones instructing him to take the summer off, a new gaggle of wings got their opportunity in the summer Tests against USA and Canada with Adam Radwan scoring a hat-trick of tries and Joe Cokanasiga scoring four in two games.

Before the last World Cup, Jones gently eased out the thirty-something brigade including Chris Robshaw and Dylan Hartley and May knows the threat is coming.

“It is the circle of life,” May said. “Players get older then younger guys come through. The thing about me is that I have always been a bit of a late developer. Ask anyone and there isn’t anybody who looks after themselves as well as I do. I am in a good place physically. Of course I am over 30 now, but nothing changes for me in terms of my mindset.

"At one stage I was the younger guy competing with the older guys and then there was a group of us that came through with Anthony (Watson), Jack (Nowell), Elliot (Daly) where we have been there or thereabouts for quite a while now. There’s a group of wingers coming through now with Ollie Thorley, Joe Cokanasiga, Adam Radwan. As I said it is the circle of life.”

May, however, has no intention of giving up his place at the top of the food chain just yet. His physical metrics indicate that he is not slowing down and despite passing the 30 mark does not feel the need to reinvent himself as a player. “At this stage in my career, I definitely have clarity. I understand where I am,” May said. “I understand my strengths. I understand what’s required of me. I understand my role.

“You appreciate you are not going to do it forever, but my mindset is that I want to keep getting better. I am 100 per cent all in for England. Eddie will pick me or he won’t pick me but I feel I have a couple of years where I can play at the highest level. At each stage of your career, you have got to constantly adapt and improve and change. You might have the answer one week, but the next week there will be a different question. My desire to improve is still very much there.

“I know what it’s like, every player and every club will say they have had a great pre-season. I am saying the same thing so it means nothing. Let’s see how we do on the pitch.”

Certainly seems to be doing all the right things to be back with a bang this season. I still think those pundits who have predicted the end of his England career have gone waaay too early - his workrate and ability to improve himself, plus his rugby brain (still feels weird crediting him with a brain, but it's true now) will keep him around for 2023 IMO.

Puja

[Gloskarlos]

Having watched a few pre-season videos from the Glos site both May and Thorley are looking lean, mean and very sharp. I'm hoping both re-find their form. I was gutted Jonny didn't make the Lions tour, but carrying injury perhaps made the difference between selection and not.

[Mr Mwenda]

Yeah, there are some journos desperately trying to spice up some humdrum season preview articles. While I felt for him, he may well be better for having the summer off rather than getting battered in the gatball.

[Puja]

Marcus Smith given exemption to return for Quins early on October 8th: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ion-lions/

That means he'll get another 2 games worth of playing time than the other Lions (who aren't eligible to be picked until the weekend of October 22nd-24th, according to that). Could be vital if he's going to stake a claim to be picked alongside Ford and Farrell.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Yes. Although it could be at the expense of Ford or Farrell rather then being ‘picked alongside’ both. If the season pans out as I expect, Ford and Smith could be a great pair of in-form, attacking 10s come the AIs.

If I were Eddie, I would be really interested to see whether ‘resting’ Farrell generates a positive response. I don’t doubt what Farrell brings off the pitch, but even the most generous observer would have to say he’s been in poor form for a couple of years now. Eddie could easily leave him out and publicly say he’s resting him while privately telling him he needs to rediscover the form to warrant being selected. I suspect Farrell would fight tooth and nail for it which would only be good thing for England. It also gives Eddie a chance to look at another captain.

Ford has a brilliant opportunity to remind Eddie and everyone else how good he is. He should be the freshest he’s been in years and has a great chance to inspire a resurgent Tigers side to a strong start to the season. The 50:22 rules will suit him really well IMO and if Eddie wants to play more heads-up rugby, Ford can absolutely do that.

[FKAS]

I can't see Eddie dropping Farrell. I can see him maybe taking the view that he's a 12 only now and that there should be two flyhalfs in the match day squad and neither of them Owen. Eddie's tended towards using the bench for impact and having either or Ford or Smith on there would provide a level of impact though it then would probably rule out the additional backrow option on the bench as neither can move around the backline.

[Puja]

Yes. Although it could be at the expense of Ford or Farrell rather then being ‘picked alongside’ both. If the season pans out as I expect, Ford and Smith could be a great pair of in-form, attacking 10s come the AIs.

If I were Eddie, I would be really interested to see whether ‘resting’ Farrell generates a positive response. I don’t doubt what Farrell brings off the pitch, but even the most generous observer would have to say he’s been in poor form for a couple of years now. Eddie could easily leave him out and publicly say he’s resting him while privately telling him he needs to rediscover the form to warrant being selected. I suspect Farrell would fight tooth and nail for it which would only be good thing for England. It also gives Eddie a chance to look at another captain.

Ford has a brilliant opportunity to remind Eddie and everyone else how good he is. He should be the freshest he’s been in years and has a great chance to inspire a resurgent Tigers side to a strong start to the season. The 50:22 rules will suit him really well IMO and if Eddie wants to play more heads-up rugby, Ford can absolutely do that.

The issue with dropping Farrell is that he won't have very much rope to hang himself with. If he won't be back until the weekend of 23rd October (that's the date in that Marcus Smith article, but that seems awfully late - is it right, do we know?), that gives him all of one game before the EPS is named. Very hard for a coach to drop a regular starter and captain without him having had a chance to fire a shot.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Stop it now!!!

Farrell will not be dropped. Do not raise our hopes that it will happen.

[Mikey Brown]

Yes. Although it could be at the expense of Ford or Farrell rather then being ‘picked alongside’ both. If the season pans out as I expect, Ford and Smith could be a great pair of in-form, attacking 10s come the AIs.

If I were Eddie, I would be really interested to see whether ‘resting’ Farrell generates a positive response. I don’t doubt what Farrell brings off the pitch, but even the most generous observer would have to say he’s been in poor form for a couple of years now. Eddie could easily leave him out and publicly say he’s resting him while privately telling him he needs to rediscover the form to warrant being selected. I suspect Farrell would fight tooth and nail for it which would only be good thing for England. It also gives Eddie a chance to look at another captain.

Ford has a brilliant opportunity to remind Eddie and everyone else how good he is. He should be the freshest he’s been in years and has a great chance to inspire a resurgent Tigers side to a strong start to the season. The 50:22 rules will suit him really well IMO and if Eddie wants to play more heads-up rugby, Ford can absolutely do that.

The issue with dropping Farrell is that he won't have very much rope to hang himself with. If he won't be back until the weekend of 23rd October (that's the date in that Marcus Smith article, but that seems awfully late - is it right, do we know?), that gives him all of one game before the EPS is named. Very hard for a coach to drop a regular starter and captain without him having had a chance to fire a shot.

Puja

I’d argue that’s a very good reason to say “we’re giving Owen a rest from internationals to let him focus on Saracens” but this is not any mere mortal we are talking about here.

[Digby]

I actually think Farrell has been at his best for England of recent times. he could still be replaced of course, but his form with England hasn't fallen off a cliff, the work ethic is still there, he's improved his tackling (not enough but it has improved, and improvement isn't form dropping away) and with the faster attack England ran in the 6N his position in the side on attack makes much more sense.
maybe one starts however by querying how we're going to attack? just a big old unknown with the coaching shuffle and that results didn't go our way

[Puja]

I actually think Farrell has been at his best for England of recent times. he could still be replaced of course, but his form with England hasn't fallen off a cliff, the work ethic is still there, he's improved his tackling (not enough but it has improved, and improvement isn't form dropping away) and with the faster attack England ran in the 6N his position in the side on attack makes much more sense.
maybe one starts however by querying how we're going to attack? just a big old unknown with the coaching shuffle and that results didn't go our way

I'd like confirmation *whether* we're going to attack first. *How* can wait till after that.

Puja

[FKAS]

I actually think Farrell has been at his best for England of recent times. he could still be replaced of course, but his form with England hasn't fallen off a cliff,

Missed the 6N and the Lions tour then. He was pretty awful in both. He does get a lot more criticism than most and is harshly judged because he's not much liked by fans. The option at Farrell at 12 has undeniably worked for England though.

[Digby]

I actually think Farrell has been at his best for England of recent times. he could still be replaced of course, but his form with England hasn't fallen off a cliff,

Missed the 6N and the Lions tour then. He was pretty awful in both. He does get a lot more criticism than most and is harshly judged because he's not much liked by fans. The option at Farrell at 12 has undeniably worked for England though.

He wasn't that bad in the 6N, what is he supposed to do about others giving away penalties and a scrum getting pushed back as a player?

Fair to ask why as a captain he isn't more on top of the penalty situation, but when we kept the ball and didn't give away a penalty we looked fine, good even, and much better than just about anything else we've seen under Eddie on attack, or at least with much more potential on attack. And at the pace we played, when we played, having Ford and another 10 makes much more sense because the work off the ball is a huge ask with what we did in the 6N, and you're going to undermine your own system every time the 10 gets scragged, unless there are two, and it's easier to split the field.

The Jamboree tour, meh, about as relevant as Ruislip under 8s for me

[Digby]

I actually think Farrell has been at his best for England of recent times. he could still be replaced of course, but his form with England hasn't fallen off a cliff, the work ethic is still there, he's improved his tackling (not enough but it has improved, and improvement isn't form dropping away) and with the faster attack England ran in the 6N his position in the side on attack makes much more sense.
maybe one starts however by querying how we're going to attack? just a big old unknown with the coaching shuffle and that results didn't go our way

I'd like confirmation *whether* we're going to attack first. *How* can wait till after that.

Puja

We coming into this on the back of having a specific plan to attack in the 6N, and a very inventive one (the plan more than the actual attack)

It's not an unfair query as to whether we go back to kick the ball away and defend given what happened to the results, but I hope we don't, it wasn't the fault of the attack we lost, nor in the main that we gave away so many penalties. I'll caveat saying it wasn't why we lost with the query that maybe Eddie will speak to one day, did that extra work off the ball in attack expand our fatigue levels? And then to manage the fatigue levels, and to get back to your query, do we reduce work on attack or defence?

I've got my fingers crossed, but I'm not wildly optimistic, because most rugby is risk averse and frankly rather boring at the top level

[Scrumhead]

I can't see Eddie dropping Farrell. I can see him maybe taking the view that he's a 12 only now and that there should be two flyhalfs in the match day squad and neither of them Owen. Eddie's tended towards using the bench for impact and having either or Ford or Smith on there would provide a level of impact though it then would probably rule out the additional backrow option on the bench as neither can move around the backline.

That’s fair. The lack of test ready options at 12* really protects him.

I don’t have anything to substantiate it, I just have a gut feel that he’s going to be ‘rested’ for the AIs and then back for the 6N with the bit between his teeth.

*I have high hopes for Kelly and Ojomoh, but they’re unlikely to be serious options this World Cup cycle.

[Mikey Brown]

Not exactly fitting of this thread, or worth it’s own, but I had either forgotten or just didn’t know that Wisemantel is now Aus attack coach. Just seen it pointed out that’s 2 wins for him over SA now, after the RWC final loss 2 years back that must be nice.

[Puja]

Cokanasiga out injured for "an unspecified amount of time" due to a knee injury. No surgery required, but another setback - you start to wonder whether we'll see him back fully fit and firing again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58650584

Puja

[Peej]

Sounds like those Lions in the EPS that didn't play much will be back in action sooner rather than later. No surprises that Bristol are "supporting" Sinckler coming back early. Imagine we will see the Sarries players before mid October too.

[Which Tyler]

[Raggs]

I didn't know he was mixed race, but I was pretty positive he was black. Just looks albino.

[FKAS]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... -achilles/

Ford talks about his injury, pre season and various other bits. Hadn't realised he'd been managing the injury problem for that long. Quite an effort.

[Mikey Brown]

Not sure if Jones’s second attempt at phase 2 of the World Cup cycle required it’s own thread or not, but I think we all have the same sort of questions over whether there will be a substantial change in tactics and selection.

Obviously the coaching overhaul is going to have a big impact. A lot of chat about EJ involving Dombrandt and Smith but I’m not holding my breath. I’d love to see them given a run but only if it really fits the plan.

Did Willis make the training squad? It would be great to see Vunipola on the bench having to fight for a starting spot like the old Bill and Ben days. Willis is maybe a more natural fit than Simmonds or Dombrandt.

[Danno]

I can't see 2024 being a win when our midfield remains so poor/inconsistent. Amazing backs are irrelevant if they don't get the ball with some space available

[Mikey Brown]

I can't see 2024 being a win when our midfield remains so poor/inconsistent. Amazing backs are irrelevant if they don't get the ball with some space available

Yeah the void with a Tuilagi-less midfield is still a major one. Can he stay fit? Will Lawrence cut it? Will we find a way to adapt?

Strange seeing Slade’s form getting bigged up recently. Scored 2 tries last week but thought he was absolutely awful. Dropping/grounding passes, in the wrong position several times. Looked like his first few England caps.

I love the idea of Slade as a Conrad Smith style 13 outside Tuilagi’s Nonu, but I’m not convinced. I really, really don’t want to see him paired with Farrell again.