If Russia invades Ukraine (more)...

[Mellsblue]

I think Truss is a dangerous mix of big ego and small intellect and it wouldn’t surprise me if this is true but…… this story seems to have started in Kommersant, a paper owned by a Putin friendly oligarch and whose independence has been eroded over the last few years. The story has then then amplified on social media by Russian state backed accounts, as always, and is now definitely true because of Brexit. Russia, on the other hand, is the epicentre of global harmony and collaboration, and totally trustworthy…..
It is a common tactic by the Russians when foreign dignitaries fly in for talks to mock them and release stories purporting that said dignitary is stupid, doesn’t understand Russia etc. Truss wasn’t the first but might, hopefully, be the last. She was warned this was the likely outcome but I’m sure the photo op was worth it….

[Which Tyler]

Our politicians are widely mocked as untrustworthy, unprepared, ignorant, and without any kind of influence whatsoever. We're the clowns of the world right now. How did it come to this?

Oh yeah, right. All the stupid decisions and putting fuckwits in charge who then purged the leading party of half its sane people by booting out everyone who disagreed with Boris's idiotic Brexit deal. That's how.

Half?

[cashead]

I think Truss is a dangerous mix of big ego and small intellect and it wouldn’t surprise me if this is true but…… this story seems to have started in Kommersant, a paper owned by a Putin friendly oligarch and whose independence has been eroded over the last few years. The story has then then amplified on social media by Russian state backed accounts, as always, and is now definitely true because of Brexit. Russia, on the other hand, is the epicentre of global harmony and collaboration, and totally trustworthy…..
It is a common tactic by the Russians when foreign dignitaries fly in for talks to mock them and release stories purporting that said dignitary is stupid, doesn’t understand Russia etc. Truss wasn’t the first but might, hopefully, be the last. She was warned this was the likely outcome but I’m sure the photo op was worth it….

It also certainly attempts to absolve Russia of playing a game of "I'm not touching you!" using their military at Ukraine's expense.

I suppose a good question to ask is "what, actually, has the Russian government done to earn any level of goodwill and any benefit of the doubt that they're engaging in good faith?"

I'd also add that I guess calling Truss a dumbass is some pretty low-hanging fruit.

[Puja]

I think Truss is a dangerous mix of big ego and small intellect and it wouldn’t surprise me if this is true but…… this story seems to have started in Kommersant, a paper owned by a Putin friendly oligarch and whose independence has been eroded over the last few years. The story has then then amplified on social media by Russian state backed accounts, as always, and is now definitely true because of Brexit. Russia, on the other hand, is the epicentre of global harmony and collaboration, and totally trustworthy…..
It is a common tactic by the Russians when foreign dignitaries fly in for talks to mock them and release stories purporting that said dignitary is stupid, doesn’t understand Russia etc. Truss wasn’t the first but might, hopefully, be the last. She was warned this was the likely outcome but I’m sure the photo op was worth it….

Apparent the British embassy has tweeted (in Russian) that “During the meeting it seemed to me that Minister Lavrov was talking about a part of Ukraine. I have made clear that these regions [Rostov and Voronezh] are part of sovereign Russia.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 12528.html

I'm just picturing the Russians having painstakingly taken time to prepare a fake story to paint Truss as ignorant, arrogant, and out of her depth and then being startled at the truth doing a better job than any propaganda could.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

I think Truss is a dangerous mix of big ego and small intellect and it wouldn’t surprise me if this is true but…… this story seems to have started in Kommersant, a paper owned by a Putin friendly oligarch and whose independence has been eroded over the last few years. The story has then then amplified on social media by Russian state backed accounts, as always, and is now definitely true because of Brexit. Russia, on the other hand, is the epicentre of global harmony and collaboration, and totally trustworthy…..
It is a common tactic by the Russians when foreign dignitaries fly in for talks to mock them and release stories purporting that said dignitary is stupid, doesn’t understand Russia etc. Truss wasn’t the first but might, hopefully, be the last. She was warned this was the likely outcome but I’m sure the photo op was worth it….

Apparent the British embassy has tweeted (in Russian) that “During the meeting it seemed to me that Minister Lavrov was talking about a part of Ukraine. I have made clear that these regions [Rostov and Voronezh] are part of sovereign Russia.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 12528.html

I'm just picturing the Russians having painstakingly taken time to prepare a fake story to paint Truss as ignorant, arrogant, and out of her depth and then being startled at the truth doing a better job than any propaganda could.

Puja

Yep, it’s now clear it’s definitely true. As I said, I doesn’t surprise me that this is the case. Important to verify this stuff from media in states such as Russia before assuming its true and, worse, disseminating it further. It’s seems the Russians are also going to town on Macron by gloating about making him wait 90mins to meet Putin and claiming that Macron bored him with his long winded rhetoric. All standard Russian ‘diplomacy’.

[Sandydragon]

the British foreign secretary demanded that Russia withdraws troops from Ukraine’s borders, Mr Lavrov asked: “You do recognise Russia’s sovereignty over the Rostov and Voronezh regions?”

Ms Truss reportedly said the UK would “never recognise Russia’s sovereignty over those regions”. Two regions which are parts of Russia.

Is Truss capable of being that stupid. Yes.
Could this be Russian propaganda. Yes.

[Sandydragon]

I think Truss is a dangerous mix of big ego and small intellect and it wouldn’t surprise me if this is true but…… this story seems to have started in Kommersant, a paper owned by a Putin friendly oligarch and whose independence has been eroded over the last few years. The story has then then amplified on social media by Russian state backed accounts, as always, and is now definitely true because of Brexit. Russia, on the other hand, is the epicentre of global harmony and collaboration, and totally trustworthy…..
It is a common tactic by the Russians when foreign dignitaries fly in for talks to mock them and release stories purporting that said dignitary is stupid, doesn’t understand Russia etc. Truss wasn’t the first but might, hopefully, be the last. She was warned this was the likely outcome but I’m sure the photo op was worth it….

Apparent the British embassy has tweeted (in Russian) that “During the meeting it seemed to me that Minister Lavrov was talking about a part of Ukraine. I have made clear that these regions [Rostov and Voronezh] are part of sovereign Russia.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 12528.html

I'm just picturing the Russians having painstakingly taken time to prepare a fake story to paint Truss as ignorant, arrogant, and out of her depth and then being startled at the truth doing a better job than any propaganda could.

Puja

Sounds like a diplomatic misunderstanding

But Truss is out of her depth. Badly

[Sandydragon]

the British foreign secretary demanded that Russia withdraws troops from Ukraine’s borders, Mr Lavrov asked: “You do recognise Russia’s sovereignty over the Rostov and Voronezh regions?”

Ms Truss reportedly said the UK would “never recognise Russia’s sovereignty over those regions”. Two regions which are parts of Russia.

Looks like Truss's MO is ignorant bluster. Who'd have thought it?

Our politicians are widely mocked as untrustworthy, unprepared, ignorant, and without any kind of influence whatsoever. We're the clowns of the world right now. How did it come to this?

Oh yeah, right. All the stupid decisions and putting fuckwits in charge who then purged the leading party of half its sane people by booting out everyone who disagreed with Boris's idiotic Brexit deal. That's how.

Puja

How long have you got for a semi sensible answer. Brexit was a symptom of the malaise but not the underlying problem.

[Sandydragon]

Nice whataboutery there. Putin is bullying his neighbours. The real question is whether the west will have the guts to push back if he tries to go too far.

Sandy, I appreciate you have loyalty in this fight, but you're making a fool of yourself.

He really isn't. Putin is bullying his neighbours. There might be other stuff going on too, but what Putin is doing is undeniable.

Sent from my CPH2195 using Tapatalk

If you mobilise hundreds of thousands of troops on the border of an independent nation and then talk about war, you shouldn’t be surprised if you are taken at face value.

Putin flexing muscles and looking at how strong the western resolve is. And not for the first time.

[Puja]

Looks like Truss's MO is ignorant bluster. Who'd have thought it?

Our politicians are widely mocked as untrustworthy, unprepared, ignorant, and without any kind of influence whatsoever. We're the clowns of the world right now. How did it come to this?

Oh yeah, right. All the stupid decisions and putting fuckwits in charge who then purged the leading party of half its sane people by booting out everyone who disagreed with Boris's idiotic Brexit deal. That's how.

Puja

How long have you got for a semi sensible answer. Brexit was a symptom of the malaise but not the underlying problem.

I mean, I reserve the right not to agree with you, but I'd be interested to hear your TED talk on the subject.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

Our politicians are widely mocked as untrustworthy, unprepared, ignorant, and without any kind of influence whatsoever. We're the clowns of the world right now. How did it come to this?

Oh yeah, right. All the stupid decisions and putting fuckwits in charge who then purged the leading party of half its sane people by booting out everyone who disagreed with Boris's idiotic Brexit deal. That's how.

Puja

How long have you got for a semi sensible answer. Brexit was a symptom of the malaise but not the underlying problem.

I mean, I reserve the right not to agree with you, but I'd be interested to hear your TED talk on the subject.

Puja

Brexit in my view was the issue where those who felt left behind could give the establishment a kicking. The fuel for that was decades of media reporting and political management that was dumbed down to the lowest level.

Undoubtedly some die hard anti EU people out there, but the vast majority just couldn’t give a monkeys. They were weaponised by the pro Brexiteers but the lack of political savvy mean they were easily weaponised.

[Sandydragon]

The Foreign Office now advising all UK nationals to leave the Ukraine. Not looking good.

[Zhivago]

Ben Wallace's trip seems to have gone better than Truss'

[Zhivago]

The Foreign Office now advising all UK nationals to leave the Ukraine. Not looking good.

It's a pain in the arse, planning to have my daughter's christening there in Spring. Makes it very hard to convince friends and family not to worry.

[Sandydragon]

Ben Wallace's trip seems to have gone better than Truss'

Not a surprise. Wallace isn’t an idiot.

[Puja]

The Foreign Office now advising all UK nationals to leave the Ukraine. Not looking good.

Mind, we're following suit from America advising the same, so I don't know whether it's actually a belief that an invasion is imminent or joining in with Biden's politicking.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

The Foreign Office now advising all UK nationals to leave the Ukraine. Not looking good.

Mind, we're following suit from America advising the same, so I don't know whether it's actually a belief that an invasion is imminent or joining in with Biden's politicking.

Puja

Not beyond the realm of possibility but they don’t tend to issue those warnings lightly.

[Sandydragon]

Russia now reducing the number of staff at its Kiev embassy.

[Sandydragon]

What surprises me is the number of people outside of Russia who still think Putin is in the right. There has been nothing to kick this off other than Putin deciding to flex his muscles in the wake of the Afghanistan withdrawal and see how far he can press the west. He hasn’t even bothered to construct the usual basket of lies about ethnic Russians at risk. Incredibly blatant.

[Son of Mathonwy]

We're pulling our troops out. I hope we've got a ton of sanctions to use, coz we're clearly not going to do anything else.

[Sandydragon]

We're pulling our troops out. I hope we've got a ton of sanctions to use, coz we're clearly not going to do anything else.

Yeah. Some of our European allies seem very reluctant to do anything. But given this is the most blatant act of aggression yet in the last 20 odd years, it’s time to take Putin seriously.

[Banquo]

We're pulling our troops out. I hope we've got a ton of sanctions to use, coz we're clearly not going to do anything else.

What would you advise we do?

[Son of Mathonwy]

We're pulling our troops out. I hope we've got a ton of sanctions to use, coz we're clearly not going to do anything else.

What would you advise we do?

It's tough, if we could get cooperation (including from the US) we should defend Ukraine. As it is, I hope there's a mountain of sanctions to cause pain to the Russian leadership.

[Banquo]

We're pulling our troops out. I hope we've got a ton of sanctions to use, coz we're clearly not going to do anything else.

What would you advise we do?

It's tough, if we could get cooperation (including from the US) we should defend Ukraine. As it is, I hope there's a mountain of sanctions to cause pain to the Russian leadership.

So you advocate a bit of a scrap? I’m surprised. Can’t see how that would end well for anyone.

[Puja]

What would you advise we do?

It's tough, if we could get cooperation (including from the US) we should defend Ukraine. As it is, I hope there's a mountain of sanctions to cause pain to the Russian leadership.

So you advocate a bit of a scrap? I’m surprised. Can’t see how that would end well for anyone.

Agreed. Unless we are willing to go to a full war with Russia, it's bloody dangerous to do anything militarily as any conflict between NATO forces and Russian ones could escalate awfully quickly. There is an argument that a layer of NATO forces in place would be a bulwark that would deter Russian aggression, but I don't trust Putin enough to make putting them in his way and gambling that he wouldn't dare chance his arm a viable tactic.

Puja