England Training Squad - Now Featuring Both New and Old Messiahs

[fivepointer]

Thats a pretty fair summary of Earl's strengths and weaknesses. He is in a very competitive position and others have the edge on him. Very good player, though, and one who is in outstanding form.
The England highlights package might be slim but it is hard to make an impact off the bench.

[Scrumhead]

I don't watch many Sarries games, so I haven't seen a lot of Earl's grunt work, just highlights. Based on that and his England performances he seems like a bit of a luxury flanker. Is that unfair?

Also, yay, we're back!

Luxury is harsh. He's Sarries main threat over the ball and scores quite a few tries through clever link play. Basically what you want in an openside, particularly when he's surrounded by the bruisers of the Sarries pack. His work rate is good and he carries quite a bit.

For England I think he's just a bit in-between. He's not a good enough to displace Curry from the 7 shirt but let's face it few are. He's not got the height to play the hybrid role at 6 and jump in the lineout like Eddie wants from Lawes and Chessum (Martin and Hill). At 8 he's not quite physical enough to get away with the carrying workload Eddie likes from an 8. He was a fairly ideal bench option as he could do enough across the backrow to cover all from the bench, similar to Ludlum but Eddie doesn't seem that fussed and Earl's England highlights reel would be quite dull.

I agree with 99% of this, but I think it’s premature to say Eddie’s ‘not fussed’. Until recently, Earl has been a fixture in the squad and when he has been left out, I suspect it’s simply a case of him being he unlucky one in an either/or decision with Simmonds.

I’m fully expecting him to be back in the squad for Australia.

[Banquo]

I don't watch many Sarries games, so I haven't seen a lot of Earl's grunt work, just highlights. Based on that and his England performances he seems like a bit of a luxury flanker. Is that unfair?

Also, yay, we're back!

Luxury is harsh. He's Sarries main threat over the ball and scores quite a few tries through clever link play. Basically what you want in an openside, particularly when he's surrounded by the bruisers of the Sarries pack. His work rate is good and he carries quite a bit.

For England I think he's just a bit in-between. He's not a good enough to displace Curry from the 7 shirt but let's face it few are. He's not got the height to play the hybrid role at 6 and jump in the lineout like Eddie wants from Lawes and Chessum (Martin and Hill). At 8 he's not quite physical enough to get away with the carrying workload Eddie likes from an 8. He was a fairly ideal bench option as he could do enough across the backrow to cover all from the bench, similar to Ludlum but Eddie doesn't seem that fussed and Earl's England highlights reel would be quite dull.

I agree with 99% of this, but I think it’s premature to say Eddie’s ‘not fussed’. Until recently, Earl has been a fixture in the squad and when he has been left out, I suspect it’s simply a case of him being he unlucky one in an either/or decision with Simmonds.

I’m fully expecting him to be back in the squad for Australia.

Suspect he's not 'abrasive' enough for what Eddie wants somewhere in the back row tbh. I think he could provide something a bit different which is frankly needed.

[Mellsblue]

Luxury is harsh. He's Sarries main threat over the ball and scores quite a few tries through clever link play. Basically what you want in an openside, particularly when he's surrounded by the bruisers of the Sarries pack. His work rate is good and he carries quite a bit.

For England I think he's just a bit in-between. He's not a good enough to displace Curry from the 7 shirt but let's face it few are. He's not got the height to play the hybrid role at 6 and jump in the lineout like Eddie wants from Lawes and Chessum (Martin and Hill). At 8 he's not quite physical enough to get away with the carrying workload Eddie likes from an 8. He was a fairly ideal bench option as he could do enough across the backrow to cover all from the bench, similar to Ludlum but Eddie doesn't seem that fussed and Earl's England highlights reel would be quite dull.

I agree with 99% of this, but I think it’s premature to say Eddie’s ‘not fussed’. Until recently, Earl has been a fixture in the squad and when he has been left out, I suspect it’s simply a case of him being he unlucky one in an either/or decision with Simmonds.

I’m fully expecting him to be back in the squad for Australia.

Suspect he's not 'abrasive' enough for what Eddie wants somewhere in the back row tbh. I think he could provide something a bit different which is frankly needed.

I saw it as a battle between him a Simmonds for the pacy, quasi-centre backrow player, and Simmonds has deserved the nod so far this season. However, for me, Earl seems to be playing a bit tighter than at Bris and has improved as the season has gone on… I wonder if he’ll make the cut this summer.

[Danno]

Cool, thanks all esp. FKAS

[SDHoneymonster]

There was that piece Charlie Morgan wrote on the most effective carriers in the Premiership a few weeks ago that highlighted that Earl had become a bit of a metre-making machine ball in hand, I think he was perhaps more of a highlights player at Bristol but he's become an excellent all round back row whose pace is a major point of difference. I'd be finding room for him in my matchday 23 for the hard, fast grounds in Australia.

[Oakboy]

It's all a question of back row ranking. IF Jones picks Lawes, Curry and Dombrandt will Earl get a bench slot ahead of Underhill, Willis, Hill, Ludlum or Barbeary? If available would Simmonds, Billy V or t'other Willis rank ahead of him? Others might make a case too.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I'd say it's more balance and then flexibility off the bench, which includes the replacement lock, rather than just a rankings piece.

For example Chessum & Earl bench options means you can cover 4 back to 8 without a need for a positional switch from your starters.

[SDHoneymonster]

Not sure if it's been mentioned anywhere else but Austin Healey now seems to think Marcus Smith should be playing on the wing, which is a hilariously terrible take in a very long line of them. Now if you want to talk mad positional switches, it surely has to be one of, or both, of Simmonds and Barbeary moving to 12...

[Danno]

Not sure if it's been mentioned anywhere else but Austin Healey now seems to think Marcus Smith should be playing on the wing

You're serious aren't you.

[twitchy]

Someone on bt said during the SF at the weekend that faz should be playing at 10 and smith at 12.

[Mikey Brown]

Monye was saying they should attack that way, but I figured he was more getting at the fact 10 is basically always sat ‘in the boot’ behind a first receiver in many attacking systems now, so he’d essentially be playing outside of Farrell.

At least I hope that’s all he was saying.

[Banquo]

I'd say it's more balance and then flexibility off the bench, which includes the replacement lock, rather than just a rankings piece.

For example Chessum & Earl bench options means you can cover 4 back to 8 without a need for a positional switch from your starters.

yep, including lineout balance.

[Banquo]

I liked Smith wrapping around Slade albeit a bit deep initially. Didnt see enough of it.

[Mikey Brown]

I liked Smith wrapping around Slade albeit a bit deep initially. Didnt see enough of it.

If only somebody else had posted this you could have done one your trademark Kenneth Williams bits.

[Banquo]

I liked Smith wrapping around Slade albeit a bit deep initially. Didnt see enough of it.

If only somebody else had posted this you could have done one your trademark Kenneth Williams bits.

always good to get feedback

[Oakboy]

I liked Smith wrapping around Slade albeit a bit deep initially. Didnt see enough of it.

If only somebody else had posted this you could have done one your trademark Kenneth Williams bits.

Ooh, really!

[FKAS]

I liked Smith wrapping around Slade albeit a bit deep initially. Didnt see enough of it.

Presumably that was something you saw off the pitch.

They had moments in the Autumn but bloody awful as a combination in the 6N. Slade is injured for the Australia tour and might not make it back in afterwards if others stake a claim this summer.

I quite like the idea of a Chessum/Earl bench. Lots of dynamic impact there, neatly covers all positions as said.

[Banquo]

I liked Smith wrapping around Slade albeit a bit deep initially. Didnt see enough of it.

Presumably that was something you saw off the pitch.

They had moments in the Autumn but bloody awful as a combination in the 6N. Slade is injured for the Australia tour and might not make it back in afterwards if others stake a claim this summer.

I quite like the idea of a Chessum/Earl bench. Lots of dynamic impact there, neatly covers all positions as said.

v italy ectually, discussed at the time. Put yer man Steward in lots of space. Abandoned as a tactic, though given what was happening up front....

and yes, unbelievably id spotted slade was out. Looking forward to one of the long queue of 12's stepping up.

[Puja]

I liked Smith wrapping around Slade albeit a bit deep initially. Didnt see enough of it.

Presumably that was something you saw off the pitch.

They had moments in the Autumn but bloody awful as a combination in the 6N. Slade is injured for the Australia tour and might not make it back in afterwards if others stake a claim this summer.

I quite like the idea of a Chessum/Earl bench. Lots of dynamic impact there, neatly covers all positions as said.

I refuse to believe in a world where we have Underhill, Curry, and JWillis and choose to only pick one of them. Hells, I'm not unconvinced that that shouldn't be our starting back row.

Puja

[Raggs]

I liked Smith wrapping around Slade albeit a bit deep initially. Didnt see enough of it.

Presumably that was something you saw off the pitch.

They had moments in the Autumn but bloody awful as a combination in the 6N. Slade is injured for the Australia tour and might not make it back in afterwards if others stake a claim this summer.

I quite like the idea of a Chessum/Earl bench. Lots of dynamic impact there, neatly covers all positions as said.

I refuse to believe in a world where we have Underhill, Curry, and JWillis and choose to only pick one of them. Hells, I'm not unconvinced that that shouldn't be our starting back row.

Puja

Yes please and thank you. All your breakdowns are belong to us. Especially with the likes of Rodd and Itoje too.

[Banquo]

Presumably that was something you saw off the pitch.

They had moments in the Autumn but bloody awful as a combination in the 6N. Slade is injured for the Australia tour and might not make it back in afterwards if others stake a claim this summer.

I quite like the idea of a Chessum/Earl bench. Lots of dynamic impact there, neatly covers all positions as said.

I refuse to believe in a world where we have Underhill, Curry, and JWillis and choose to only pick one of them. Hells, I'm not unconvinced that that shouldn't be our starting back row.

Puja

Yes please and thank you. All your breakdowns are belong to us. Especially with the likes of Rodd and Itoje too.

and LCD. However, carrying and lineout would have to be cleverly addressed

[Puja]

I refuse to believe in a world where we have Underhill, Curry, and JWillis and choose to only pick one of them. Hells, I'm not unconvinced that that shouldn't be our starting back row.

Puja

Yes please and thank you. All your breakdowns are belong to us. Especially with the likes of Rodd and Itoje too.

and LCD. However, carrying and lineout would have to be cleverly addressed

I don't know - Willis has always been a very powerful carrier and it's something which both TCurry and Underhill have added to their games of late. And all three can jump in the lineout, so a halfway adroit set of lineout moves should see us with enough flexible options to be able to go up uncontested most times. I think it could work for carrying and lineout without too much disarrangement of the team.

If we are going completely unbalanced, imagine this:
Mako
LCD
Cole
Launchbury
Itoje
Underhill
TCurry
Willis

Hugely unbalanced, but it'd be a bit good at the breakdown.

Puja

[Banquo]

Yes please and thank you. All your breakdowns are belong to us. Especially with the likes of Rodd and Itoje too.

and LCD. However, carrying and lineout would have to be cleverly addressed

I don't know - Willis has always been a very powerful carrier and it's something which both TCurry and Underhill have added to their games of late. And all three can jump in the lineout, so a halfway adroit set of lineout moves should see us with enough flexible options to be able to go up uncontested most times. I think it could work for carrying and lineout without too much disarrangement of the team.

If we are going completely unbalanced, imagine this:
Mako
LCD
Cole
Launchbury
Itoje
Underhill
TCurry
Willis

Hugely unbalanced, but it'd be a bit good at the breakdown.

Puja

Willis is an aggressive tight carrier, but hardly a big guy in intl terms, and sure he and Curry can be hoisted, but not the same as being a lineout weapon like say Lawes. All I'm saying it would need thinking through if you picked three players who mostly play as opensides.Not sure thats contentious tbh, esp as you kind of half agree on having adroit lineout moves.

[FKAS]

I liked Smith wrapping around Slade albeit a bit deep initially. Didnt see enough of it.

Presumably that was something you saw off the pitch.

They had moments in the Autumn but bloody awful as a combination in the 6N. Slade is injured for the Australia tour and might not make it back in afterwards if others stake a claim this summer.

I quite like the idea of a Chessum/Earl bench. Lots of dynamic impact there, neatly covers all positions as said.

I refuse to believe in a world where we have Underhill, Curry, and JWillis and choose to only pick one of them. Hells, I'm not unconvinced that that shouldn't be our starting back row.

Puja

What's to stop us going;

1. Genge
2. LCD
3. Stuart
4. Itoje
5. Hill
6. Lawes
7. Willis
8. Curry

George, Marler, Heyes, Chessum, Earl

If we don't fancy Dombrandt and want more breakdown presence. Lots of mobility and physicality. The carrying load would have to be shared round but Genge carried more than Simmonds and Dombrandt in the 6N anyway.