Summer Test Series vs Argentina

[Cameo]

Scotland team to face Argentina at the Estadio Padre Ernesto Martearena, Salta, live on Sky Sports, Saturday 9 July - kick-off 8.10pm BST.

15. Rory Hutchinson - Northampton Saints - 6 caps
14. Darcy Graham - Edinburgh Rugby - 28 caps
13. Mark Bennett - Edinburgh Rugby - 25 caps
12. Sam Johnson - Glasgow Warriors - 25 caps
11. Duhan van der Merwe - Worcester Warriors - 17 caps
10. Blair Kinghorn - Edinburgh Rugby - 32 caps
9. Ben White - London Irish - 5 caps
1. Pierre Schoeman - Edinburgh Rugby - 10 caps
2. Dave Cherry - Edinburgh Rugby - 5 caps
3. Zander Fagerson - Glasgow Warriors - 48 caps
4. Sam Skinner - Edinburgh Rugby - 21 caps
5. Grant Gilchrist - Edinburgh Rugby - (Captain) - 54 caps
6. Rory Darge - Glasgow Warriors - 5 caps
7. Hamish Watson - Edinburgh Rugby (Vice-Captain) - 49 caps
8. Matt Fagerson - Glasgow Warriors - 22 caps

Replacements

16. George Turner - Glasgow Warriors - 26 caps
17. Jamie Bhatti - Glasgow Warriors - 22 caps
18. Javan Sebastian - Scarlets - 2 caps
19. Scott Cummings - Glasgow Warriors - 21 caps
20. Andy Christie - Saracens - 1 cap
21. Ali Price - Glasgow Warriors - 52 caps
22. Ross Thompson - Glasgow Warriors - 1 cap
23. Kyle Rowe - London Irish - uncapped

[Cameo]

At least with that backrow (and with Skinner) we hopefully won't look as passive as last week.

Kin of makes sense to give the backline another go - might as well find out about them properly on this tour.

[Mikey Brown]

Smith really not ready then?

Solid enough team I guess. Not sure Darge and Mish together but maybe that extra mobility and turnover threat will work for us.

Seems bizarre that Kinghorn is the most capped player in that backline. How does he have more caps than Bennet and Johnson?

[Mikey Brown]

Watched some of the other games and they just seemed so much higher quality. A bit depressing at the moment.

Having said that, is there something different about the camera angles or something in Argentina? Any time I have ever watched a test there, whoever they are playing, there has been a bit of a weird vibe. Even when the crowd looks big and racous, the TV coverage gives off a subdued vibe. Maybe just a bunch of jetlagged commentators who have eaten too much steak pre-game.

Well that was the worst I’ve ever heard flower of Scotland sound, if that means anything.

[Mikey Brown]

Looking like more of the same.

[Mikey Brown]

Think I've made my mind up about Kinghorn...

[Mikey Brown]

The fourth set play I've counted where a player has just floated the ball to absolutely nobody.

[Mikey Brown]

Only talking to myself of course, but thank god we got our shit together in the second half. Can we handle 25 minutes without blowing this?

[Donny osmond]

Absolutely pmsl...

Sent from my CPH2195 using Tapatalk

[Puja]

Absolutely pmsl...

Sent from my CPH2195 using Tapatalk

That seems broadly about right to me. France out ahead, Ireland/NZ/SA all pretty much even, then a decent gap to England and Australia, Scotland and Wales.

Puja

[Cameo]

That was way better than I expected. Loads of poor passes in that first half but at least you could see what we were trying to do to create space. The skills and cohesion just down seem quite good enough. Forwards were on top though.

Second half we simplified and both centres ran great lines. The defence on our line was great too. The main downside was the penalties even if a couple were quite harsh. Every concedes them but ours seem particularly needless.

The backrow and White the standouts for me.

Also - three match series are great.

[Cameo]

Three more things:

1. Kinghorn's kickoffs are really great - like among the best in the world. The one he did that landed on the 5m with players bearing down was a real momentum changer. They would be even better if DVDM could track a ball on the air. He seems to love flying right past the catcher.

2. Recieving kickoffs we are still so poor. Gilchrist had one great take today but even that made you wonder why we never just get someone one to catch it comfortably. I think we would win at least one extra match a year if we were just average at kickoffs.

3. Fagerson has been injured a bit but I think he has really cemented his spot at 8 this year. He is not the biggest 8 but beings a physicality we miss elsewhere. Especially noticeable wrestling people back in the tackle.

[Still septic]

Three more things:

1. Kinghorn's kickoffs are really great - like among the best in the world. The one he did that landed on the 5m with players bearing down was a real momentum changer. They would be even better if DVDM could track a ball on the air. He seems to love flying right past the catcher.

2. Recieving kickoffs we are still so poor. Gilchrist had one great take today but even that made you wonder why we never just get someone one to catch it comfortably. I think we would win at least one extra match a year if we were just average at kickoffs.

3. Fagerson has been injured a bit but I think he has really cemented his spot at 8 this year. He is not the biggest 8 but beings a physicality we miss elsewhere. Especially noticeable wrestling people back in the tackle.

something wrong with me this morning, I'm going to agree 100% with that

Pretty average 1st half, much like last week. Quick passes to centres kept going behind the recipient, again. Different recipients, always Kinghorn making the pass. His restart is as good as any in the world, that's it. He made one run (and got pinged for an extra roll after the tackle) which typified what he has been doing for edin this season; he was playing full back at the time. No kick to control, often poor distance on touch kicks from pens (because of his habit of over-cooking them), place kicking simply not up to standard. Such improvements as he made at 10 this season (and he made huge strides) seem to have stopped. Up to Townsend now to decide whether he goes to the RWC as a versatile option and 3rd 10; or watch what Thomson does from here until the RWC squad selected.

Whole pack was great apart from Gilchrist. His usual daft penalty and we lost a key lineout on his stupid call. We only had 2 proper jumpers, we are attacking. There is a hoolie blowing. And he calls a throw to the back. Which goes wrong.

[Mikey Brown]

Yep I found myself wincing every time either Cherry (not necessarily his fault) or Kinghorn had the ball in their hands.

Fagerson also seems to be one of the few who can reliably catch a restart and recycle it.

It seems ridiculous to not have a look at Smith at 15. I would assume Hutchinson and Rowe are both out of next week anyway and GT said he already had a bunch of changes planned (not sure about this mindset tbh but that’s another conversation) for test 3.

Or will he be tempted to drop Kinghorn back and give Thomson a start? Thomson was much improved this time out, but I can understand wanting to give Kinghorn the full opportunity in this series.

VDM looked rusty again, and that habit mentioned above of flying past kick chases is so annoying. Not sure if McLean is trusted though.

[Cameo]

Three more things:

1. Kinghorn's kickoffs are really great - like among the best in the world. The one he did that landed on the 5m with players bearing down was a real momentum changer. They would be even better if DVDM could track a ball on the air. He seems to love flying right past the catcher.

2. Recieving kickoffs we are still so poor. Gilchrist had one great take today but even that made you wonder why we never just get someone one to catch it comfortably. I think we would win at least one extra match a year if we were just average at kickoffs.

3. Fagerson has been injured a bit but I think he has really cemented his spot at 8 this year. He is not the biggest 8 but beings a physicality we miss elsewhere. Especially noticeable wrestling people back in the tackle.

something wrong with me this morning, I'm going to agree 100% with that

Pretty average 1st half, much like last week. Quick passes to centres kept going behind the recipient, again. Different recipients, always Kinghorn making the pass. His restart is as good as any in the world, that's it. He made one run (and got pinged for an extra roll after the tackle) which typified what he has been doing for edin this season; he was playing full back at the time. No kick to control, often poor distance on touch kicks from pens (because of his habit of over-cooking them), place kicking simply not up to standard. Such improvements as he made at 10 this season (and he made huge strides) seem to have stopped. Up to Townsend now to decide whether he goes to the RWC as a versatile option and 3rd 10; or watch what Thomson does from here until the RWC squad selected.

Whole pack was great apart from Gilchrist. His usual daft penalty and we lost a key lineout on his stupid call. We only had 2 proper jumpers, we are attacking. There is a hoolie blowing. And he calls a throw to the back. Which goes wrong.

One point I don't quite agree with. I thought a few players did those bad passes behind the player. There was at least one from Hutchison and one from Johnson. Absokute.momentum killers!

One final point that annoyed me, though it didn't matter today. What's the thinking behind kicking it away with thirty seconds to go. Australia did it just behind half time too. I can see it if you are close to your line under real pressure, but when you are in comfortable possession surely back yourself to hold onto it for 30 seconds and kick it out rather than give the other team a final chance.to attack.

[Still septic]

something wrong with me this morning, I'm going to agree 100% with that

Pretty average 1st half, much like last week. Quick passes to centres kept going behind the recipient, again. Different recipients, always Kinghorn making the pass. His restart is as good as any in the world, that's it. He made one run (and got pinged for an extra roll after the tackle) which typified what he has been doing for edin this season; he was playing full back at the time. No kick to control, often poor distance on touch kicks from pens (because of his habit of over-cooking them), place kicking simply not up to standard. Such improvements as he made at 10 this season (and he made huge strides) seem to have stopped. Up to Townsend now to decide whether he goes to the RWC as a versatile option and 3rd 10; or watch what Thomson does from here until the RWC squad selected.

Whole pack was great apart from Gilchrist. His usual daft penalty and we lost a key lineout on his stupid call. We only had 2 proper jumpers, we are attacking. There is a hoolie blowing. And he calls a throw to the back. Which goes wrong.

One point I don't quite agree with. I thought a few players did those bad passes behind the player. There was at least one from Hutchison and one from Johnson. Absokute.momentum killers! .

Yes Hutch did one as well. but Kinghorn was doing the same last week. Couple of indicators also - the support runner varies, so unless they are all over-running the pass, its the passer. And problem disappeared after Kinghorn moved to FB. These passes don't always stick. I recall Russell failing with some, all the best 10s are not 100%, but nailing most. Kinghorn hasn't nailed any.

[Still septic]

One final point that annoyed me, though it didn't matter today. What's the thinking behind kicking it away with thirty seconds to go. Australia did it just behind half time too. I can see it if you are close to your line under real pressure, but when you are in comfortable possession surely back yourself to hold onto it for 30 seconds and kick it out rather than give the other team a final chance.to attack.

pretty much agree.

There is always a fear that a ref will be super vigilant and harsh* on the defending team sealing off as they try to run the clock off. And as we know all too well, 2 quick pens and even if you start in their 22 you are going to finish with a lineout for them in ours. Thus would explain some cases. As would the 9 (usually) simply not being aware of the time or just going through an adrenalin fuelled "norm" when the ball is won.
For us yesterday, 3 plus scores ahead it didn't matter a jot. I hope they had discussed such a situation yonks ago and how to play it, maybe depending on the ref

*And of course some refs used to be known for ignoring any offence by the defence in the last couple of minutes so as not to upset the applecart, or the opposite of it meant putting the apple cart the right way up

[Mikey Brown]

something wrong with me this morning, I'm going to agree 100% with that

Pretty average 1st half, much like last week. Quick passes to centres kept going behind the recipient, again. Different recipients, always Kinghorn making the pass. His restart is as good as any in the world, that's it. He made one run (and got pinged for an extra roll after the tackle) which typified what he has been doing for edin this season; he was playing full back at the time. No kick to control, often poor distance on touch kicks from pens (because of his habit of over-cooking them), place kicking simply not up to standard. Such improvements as he made at 10 this season (and he made huge strides) seem to have stopped. Up to Townsend now to decide whether he goes to the RWC as a versatile option and 3rd 10; or watch what Thomson does from here until the RWC squad selected.

Whole pack was great apart from Gilchrist. His usual daft penalty and we lost a key lineout on his stupid call. We only had 2 proper jumpers, we are attacking. There is a hoolie blowing. And he calls a throw to the back. Which goes wrong.

One point I don't quite agree with. I thought a few players did those bad passes behind the player. There was at least one from Hutchison and one from Johnson. Absokute.momentum killers! .

Yes Hutch did one as well. but Kinghorn was doing the same last week. Couple of indicators also - the support runner varies, so unless they are all over-running the pass, its the passer. And problem disappeared after Kinghorn moved to FB. These passes don't always stick. I recall Russell failing with some, all the best 10s are not 100%, but nailing most. Kinghorn hasn't nailed any.

This is a thing I’ve been banging on about for ages. Running set moves and it feeling like we’re not responding (or even paying attention to) the defence. The number of times we pass without committing anybody at all in defence is insane, and I think it leads to these confused moments where nobody knows how to time their run or their pass. I don’t think it’s that the players aren’t capable, Hutchinson for instance has a fantastic feel for this at club level, whatever else you think of his game.

There was a moment Fagerson broke from an advancing scrum and you could almost feel his confusion that he was just running in to empty space. He just ran sideways a bit and then passed early without engaging anyone. We recycled and it was no big deal, but it feels like a team wide thing to some extent and I don’t know what we do about that.

Smith looks like one of the few players with that innate feel for how and where to attack, so I really hope he kicks on.

[Cameo]

One final point that annoyed me, though it didn't matter today. What's the thinking behind kicking it away with thirty seconds to go. Australia did it just behind half time too. I can see it if you are close to your line under real pressure, but when you are in comfortable possession surely back yourself to hold onto it for 30 seconds and kick it out rather than give the other team a final chance.to attack.

pretty much agree.

There is always a fear that a ref will be super vigilant and harsh* on the defending team sealing off as they try to run the clock off. And as we know all too well, 2 quick pens and even if you start in their 22 you are going to finish with a lineout for them in ours. Thus would explain some cases. As would the 9 (usually) simply not being aware of the time or just going through an adrenalin fuelled "norm" when the ball is won.
For us yesterday, 3 plus scores ahead it didn't matter a jot. I hope they had discussed such a situation yonks ago and how to play it, maybe depending on the ref

*And of course some refs used to be known for ignoring any offence by the defence in the last couple of minutes so as not to upset the applecart, or the opposite of it meant putting the apple cart the right way up

Yeah, gone are the days you could comfortably do a Munster and kill the last 3 or 4 minutes but I'd like to think we'd back ourselves to do one phase - and 4 scores ahead is a good time to practice if not!

I sometimes wonder if it would be easier to recycle like that in the final minute by putting two passes in. The other team always have their best jacklers lined up by the ruck willing to do anything to try and get the steal and the ref is looking for the prelatch. If you go slightly wider, as long as you have support, it might just be a bit more like a normal phase. We'd probably drop it though.

[Still septic]

one other thing I should have mentioned about that kick instead of running the clock down with a couple of rucks (and I agree with so little time on the clock...). The ref in this game. TBF I think he had overall a pretty good game, albeit amazing aided for once by the worst TMO around, but he had already awarded a free kick against Price for not playing the ball at the base of a ruck quickly enough. I didn't hear him warning Price (he apparently did), and it seemed harsh anyway. And it is a rare thing to see - can't remember that last time I saw that, refs haven't even been bothering doing it once to tick the box for their assessor review.

Just another factor in deciding

[sharvey44]

one other thing I should have mentioned about that kick instead of running the clock down with a couple of rucks (and I agree with so little time on the clock...). The ref in this game. TBF I think he had overall a pretty good game, albeit amazing aided for once by the worst TMO around, but he had already awarded a free kick against Price for not playing the ball at the base of a ruck quickly enough. I didn't hear him warning Price (he apparently did), and it seemed harsh anyway. And it is a rare thing to see - can't remember that last time I saw that, refs haven't even been bothering doing it once to tick the box for their assessor review.

Just another factor in deciding

IIRC he warned White really early on and used that as an excuse to ping Price. I thought generally our discipline was a lot better on Saturday than it has been. Our defence was very well drilled when the Argies were on our 5m. First half still looked like we were asleep. Blairhorn has done nothing to convince me he's an international 10.

[Puja]

one other thing I should have mentioned about that kick instead of running the clock down with a couple of rucks (and I agree with so little time on the clock...). The ref in this game. TBF I think he had overall a pretty good game, albeit amazing aided for once by the worst TMO around, but he had already awarded a free kick against Price for not playing the ball at the base of a ruck quickly enough. I didn't hear him warning Price (he apparently did), and it seemed harsh anyway. And it is a rare thing to see - can't remember that last time I saw that, refs haven't even been bothering doing it once to tick the box for their assessor review.

Just another factor in deciding

IIRC he warned White really early on and used that as an excuse to ping Price.

And, in fairness, he called Use It and Price just completely ignored him, carrying on like he had all the time in the world. Granted, most of the time, 9s get away with it, but I've got no problems with a ref that'll actually call that - I wish more would.

Puja

[Still septic]

one other thing I should have mentioned about that kick instead of running the clock down with a couple of rucks (and I agree with so little time on the clock...). The ref in this game. TBF I think he had overall a pretty good game, albeit amazing aided for once by the worst TMO around, but he had already awarded a free kick against Price for not playing the ball at the base of a ruck quickly enough. I didn't hear him warning Price (he apparently did), and it seemed harsh anyway. And it is a rare thing to see - can't remember that last time I saw that, refs haven't even been bothering doing it once to tick the box for their assessor review.

Just another factor in deciding

IIRC he warned White really early on and used that as an excuse to ping Price.

And, in fairness, he called Use It and Price just completely ignored him, carrying on like he had all the time in the world. Granted, most of the time, 9s get away with it, but I've got no problems with a ref that'll actually call that - I wish more would.

Puja

as I said, I didn't hear him warn Price, nor for that matter White (saying "use it" isn't a warning) but if he did fair enough. And so I agree with the rest of your post 100%

I'd go further. Like a number of other things refs say, I don't want them to. I don't want to hear use, or hands off, por get back etc etc. I don't want refs coaching players. Just call the offence. Award the pen or call pen advantage. Players will very quickly make better decisions and we will have a better game

[Mikey Brown]

IIRC he warned White really early on and used that as an excuse to ping Price.

And, in fairness, he called Use It and Price just completely ignored him, carrying on like he had all the time in the world. Granted, most of the time, 9s get away with it, but I've got no problems with a ref that'll actually call that - I wish more would.

Puja

as I said, I didn't hear him warn Price, nor for that matter White (saying "use it" isn't a warning) but if he did fair enough. And so I agree with the rest of your post 100%

I'd go further. Like a number of other things refs say, I don't want them to. I don't want to hear use, or hands off, por get back etc etc. I don't want refs coaching players. Just call the offence. Award the pen or call pen advantage. Players will very quickly make better decisions and we will have a better game

Yeah the coaching thing has been an irritation for a long time. Leading players to stall for an age while setting up a box kick, knowing they’ll get a warning, or players interfering with the ball in the ruck and being told to take their hands off, which sort of acknowledges the attacking team have been slowed down but receives no punishment.

[Mikey Brown]

Scotland: Smith, McLean, Bennett, Tuipulotu, Van der Merwe, Kinghorn, Price, Sutherland, Ashman, Z Fagerson, Cummings, Gray, Darge, Watson, M Fagerson.

Replacements: Cherry, Schoeman, Sebastian, Young, Christie, Horne, Thomson, Johnson.

Great to see Smith get a start. I thought White was good.

Meh on Tuipulotu, classic pointless yo-yo selection from Townsend. I’d really hope to see some impact from him if we’re going to persist in having him in match day squads.

Dropping Graham instead of VDM doesn’t seem like the form call, but GT did say these were mostly preplanned changes.

I really hope these endlessly long seasons for Watson, DVM, Price and Sutherland don’t come back to bite us. Also feels like we should just give Christie a start at some point instead of endless bench appearances.

Not sure I’ve got much opinion on Glenn Young? I just don’t get how Gilchrist, Skinner, Hodgson, Young and Sykes can all be at Edinburgh and vying for Scotland spots.