Malins moving to 15, England back three, and lots of Furbank

[Raggs]

[Malins] Lovely option for the 23 shirt for England I reckon. Steward, Arundell and A N Other on the other wing.

[Mellsblue]

Freeman is surely ahead of Arundell and definitely ahead of A N Other.

[Raggs]

Freeman is surely ahead of Arundell and definitely ahead of A N Other.

Freeman! That's who I was thinking of, knew there was someone who'd put their hand up. Arundell and Freeman on the wings.

Makes me think actually we don't need a fullback on the bench, but rather a centre/wing option. Joseph/Marchant.

[Oakboy]

Freeman is surely ahead of Arundell and definitely ahead of A N Other.

Freeman! That's who I was thinking of, knew there was someone who'd put their hand up. Arundell and Freeman on the wings.

Makes me think actually we don't need a fullback on the bench, but rather a centre/wing option. Joseph/Marchant.

Where do you rank Furbank as a matter of interest? I can't make my mind up about him. Jones has picked him at 15, moving Steward to the wing. I don't like that arrangement but I do want the back three to be a settled unit in terms of style and personnel. Somebody good will miss out obviously.

[Raggs]

Freeman is surely ahead of Arundell and definitely ahead of A N Other.

Freeman! That's who I was thinking of, knew there was someone who'd put their hand up. Arundell and Freeman on the wings.

Makes me think actually we don't need a fullback on the bench, but rather a centre/wing option. Joseph/Marchant.

Where do you rank Furbank as a matter of interest? I can't make my mind up about him. Jones has picked him at 15, moving Steward to the wing. I don't like that arrangement but I do want the back three to be a settled unit in terms of style and personnel. Somebody good will miss out obviously.

He's been acceptable, but I just don't see him having the same ceiling as the others. Maybe in the training squad, but not in the 23.

[Mellsblue]

Freeman is surely ahead of Arundell and definitely ahead of A N Other.

Freeman! That's who I was thinking of, knew there was someone who'd put their hand up. Arundell and Freeman on the wings.

Makes me think actually we don't need a fullback on the bench, but rather a centre/wing option. Joseph/Marchant.

Where do you rank Furbank as a matter of interest? I can't make my mind up about him. Jones has picked him at 15, moving Steward to the wing. I don't like that arrangement but I do want the back three to be a settled unit in terms of style and personnel. Somebody good will miss out obviously.

If he could take his Prem form on to the international stage then, imo, he’s definitely good enough. Defensively he’s miles away from Steward and vice versa in attack. I think with the way England set up, and with the wingers we have coming through, Steward’s solidity is what is needed, plus he’s added a bit more juice to his game in attack. If we didn’t have a player maker at 12 or 13 and we pick a ‘plodder’ on the wing then Furbank would be the/an option, for me.
Give Malins a season at 15 for Brizzle and I think he would usurp Furbank as the ‘attacking’ option at 15.
All the above is with the obvs caveat that WR continue to ban RICH LANE!!! from international rugby to “maintain the competitive integrity of the rugby would cup”.

[Oakboy]

Is Watson playing again yet?

[Mellsblue]

Played a few mins of preseason but went off injured and was listed as injured for last weekend, I think.

[Banquo]

I want him to play fullback too

10. He's not good enough in the air at 15 imo

[Banquo]

Freeman! That's who I was thinking of, knew there was someone who'd put their hand up. Arundell and Freeman on the wings.

Makes me think actually we don't need a fullback on the bench, but rather a centre/wing option. Joseph/Marchant.

Where do you rank Furbank as a matter of interest? I can't make my mind up about him. Jones has picked him at 15, moving Steward to the wing. I don't like that arrangement but I do want the back three to be a settled unit in terms of style and personnel. Somebody good will miss out obviously.

He's been acceptable, but I just don't see him having the same ceiling as the others. Maybe in the training squad, but not in the 23.

He's a terrific runner,good hands too. His positional play and concentration let him down at 15- see Daly tbh. He's a decent 10, and in fairness learning the positional side of 15, albeit a bit slowly. Very talented. He's kind of blocking freeman at 15 for Saints, and I think Freeman would be a terrific 15, but he's a bloody good winger too.

[Mellsblue]

I want him to play fullback too

10. He's not good enough in the air at 15 imo

Yeah, we’ve had this conversation before and everyone agreed I was right and you were wrong

[FKAS]

Is Watson playing again yet?

Played a decent bit of the game Vs Jersey, went off after 6 mins Vs Falcons and hasn't bee seen since. Looked muscular and he walked off looking uncomfortable as opposed to going down in agony so hopefully back soon. Probably just pulled something after being out for so long.

Re Furbank he's a great player at club level but internationally he's looked out of his depth so far. Whether that's because international rugby puts a spotlight on all the things he's passable at but someone like Steward excels at (under the high ball, kick chase, tackling) or whether he struggles outside of the Saints attacking structure I'm not sure. Hes been playing 15 a while for Saints and hasn't really kicked on in the areas where he'd need to, to displace Steward and doesn't have enough pace or kick chase game to play wing. His ability to play 10 is helpful for squad cover but he might miss out on a world cup spot if Eddie decides he's got enough 15 cover and opts to take Ford, Farrell and Smith.

[Banquo]

I want him to play fullback too

10. He's not good enough in the air at 15 imo

Yeah, we’ve had this conversation before and everyone agreed I was right and you were wrong

[Mellsblue]

Re Furbank he's a great player at club level but internationally he's looked out of his depth so far.

So has Porter and yet you’re willing to give him more leeway. I wonder why.

[Stom]

Re Furbank he's a great player at club level but internationally he's looked out of his depth so far.

So has Porter and yet you’re willing to give him more leeway. I wonder why.

Apart from the inbuilt bias, part of it is that we have a paucity of centres, but plenty of exciting fullbacks. And while Furbank is good, I don't think he's what you would call exciting...

[Mellsblue]

Re Furbank he's a great player at club level but internationally he's looked out of his depth so far.

So has Porter and yet you’re willing to give him more leeway. I wonder why.

Apart from the inbuilt bias, part of it is that we have a paucity of centres, but plenty of exciting fullbacks. And while Furbank is good, I don't think he's what you would call exciting...

Porter did replace Marchant, both in Oz and in the latest training squad. There’s also Tuilagi and Slade, with Lawrence and Joseph Jnr in he back ground. OC isn’t particularly a problem. I could possibly see your point at IC but, even then, Farrell has that nailed on if fit.
I think Furbank is exactly what you call exciting. The issue is that the oppo attack coach probably gets a bit excited, too, even if the oppo defence coach would rather face Steward.

[Oakboy]

So has Porter and yet you’re willing to give him more leeway. I wonder why.

Apart from the inbuilt bias, part of it is that we have a paucity of centres, but plenty of exciting fullbacks. And while Furbank is good, I don't think he's what you would call exciting...

Porter did replace Marchant, both in Oz and in the latest training squad. There’s also Tuilagi and Slade, with Lawrence and Joseph Jnr in he back ground. OC isn’t particularly a problem. I could possibly see your point at IC but, even then, Farrell has that nailed on if fit.
I think Furbank is exactly what you call exciting. The issue is that the oppo attack coach probably gets a bit excited, too, even if the oppo defence coach would rather face Steward.

So, if everybody is fully fit and on form for a game tomorrow, what is Jones's 1st choice back line? 9. Youngs, 10. Smith, 11. May, 12. Farrell, 13. Tuilagi, 14, Watson, 15. Steward, perhaps?

[Scrumhead]

Probably, yes.

[FKAS]

Re Furbank he's a great player at club level but internationally he's looked out of his depth so far.

So has Porter and yet you’re willing to give him more leeway. I wonder why.

How many England squads has Furbank had to work with on correcting those issues?

I'd also not necessarily kick him out the squad, it's only other players coming into the squad and playing better that's putting him under threat.

[Mellsblue]

Re Furbank he's a great player at club level but internationally he's looked out of his depth so far.

So has Porter and yet you’re willing to give him more leeway. I wonder why.

How many England squads has Furbank had to work with on correcting those issues?

I'd also not necessarily kick him out the squad, it's only other players coming into the squad and playing better that's putting him under threat.

He’s had five caps, including one at 10 and one off the bench. His first two were in very heavy rain which is a nightmare for any 15, especially one whose strengths lie in attack.
They’re both exactly the same age so the time to improve on weaknesses should be similar. Furbank is still pretty new to the position having, to the best of my knowledge, played 10 or 12 throughout his junior career so his major weakness, positioning, will only improve. I fear Porter’s heavy/slow feet in d will only get heavier/slower.
Anyway we’ve been over this ad nauseam so I’ll leave it there.

[FKAS]

So has Porter and yet you’re willing to give him more leeway. I wonder why.

How many England squads has Furbank had to work with on correcting those issues?

I'd also not necessarily kick him out the squad, it's only other players coming into the squad and playing better that's putting him under threat.

He’s had five caps, including one at 10 and one off the bench. His first two were in very heavy rain which is a nightmare for any 15, especially one whose strengths lie in attack.
They’re both exactly the same age so the time to improve on weaknesses should be similar. Furbank is still pretty new to the position having, to the best of my knowledge, played 10 or 12 throughout his junior career so his major weakness, positioning, will only improve. I fear Porter’s heavy/slow feet in d will only get heavier/slower.
Anyway we’ve been over this ad nauseam so I’ll leave it there.

Not sure why you're so defensive over Furbank. He's failed to make the step up so far but he's still young enough to turn that around. He's got this Autumn to try and turn that around before Ford comes back in as the third 10 option. Porter is in a similar position, he's had one squad inclusion and two caps, needs to make his mark this Autumn or Eddie may look elsewhere, particularly if Manu remains fit and Marchant is still in good form. I still suspect Slade will come in for one of Porter or Dingwall for the AIs as well.

[Mellsblue]

How many England squads has Furbank had to work with on correcting those issues?

I'd also not necessarily kick him out the squad, it's only other players coming into the squad and playing better that's putting him under threat.

He’s had five caps, including one at 10 and one off the bench. His first two were in very heavy rain which is a nightmare for any 15, especially one whose strengths lie in attack.
They’re both exactly the same age so the time to improve on weaknesses should be similar. Furbank is still pretty new to the position having, to the best of my knowledge, played 10 or 12 throughout his junior career so his major weakness, positioning, will only improve. I fear Porter’s heavy/slow feet in d will only get heavier/slower.
Anyway we’ve been over this ad nauseam so I’ll leave it there.

Not sure why you're so defensive over Furbank. He's failed to make the step up so far but he's still young enough to turn that around. He's got this Autumn to try and turn that around before Ford comes back in as the third 10 option. Porter is in a similar position, he's had one squad inclusion and two caps, needs to make his mark this Autumn or Eddie may look elsewhere, particularly if Manu remains fit and Marchant is still in good form. I still suspect Slade will come in for one of Porter or Dingwall for the AIs as well.

I don’t think I’m defensive over Furbank*, it’s just his skill set going forward is what I want from my 15 and I’d like to see if he could take his domestic form in to the test arena as it could transform England’s attack. He’s rightly behind Steward and, imo, he’ll be behind Malins and Freeman if/when they get to play 15 regularly. Tbh, I’m hoping they’re all just place holding in the 15 pecking order until Arundell fulfils his potential. I just find your different view of players dependent on whether they play for Leicester or not quite amusing, ie I know why you’re defensive over Porter.
*full disclosure, he did go to the same school as me and in one minor interaction I had with him he was a top bloke, ditto Dingwall, so I do want him to be successful.

[Stom]

So has Porter and yet you’re willing to give him more leeway. I wonder why.

How many England squads has Furbank had to work with on correcting those issues?

I'd also not necessarily kick him out the squad, it's only other players coming into the squad and playing better that's putting him under threat.

He’s had five caps, including one at 10 and one off the bench. His first two were in very heavy rain which is a nightmare for any 15, especially one whose strengths lie in attack.
They’re both exactly the same age so the time to improve on weaknesses should be similar. Furbank is still pretty new to the position having, to the best of my knowledge, played 10 or 12 throughout his junior career so his major weakness, positioning, will only improve. I fear Porter’s heavy/slow feet in d will only get heavier/slower.
Anyway we’ve been over this ad nauseam so I’ll leave it there.

I must have missed that because I feel like this is new for me.

And it's interesting how differently we see Furbank. Because I see his lack of pace and feel like he's Goode mkII. And that's not what I would want in my FB. Maybe that's also my bias creeping in as my biggest rugby watching years were spent with Mike Brown as Quins' FB, and I very much liked the way he hit the line, compared to Goode/Furbank, who hit it closer in, and perhaps look to bring others into play a bit more.

It's also interesting that this has stemmed out of Malins moving to play FB, when I see him as having that converted FH skillset to allow him to hit the line at IC effectively, but he's also got the pace to run those lovely lines between the OC and wings.

[Banquo]

How many England squads has Furbank had to work with on correcting those issues?

I'd also not necessarily kick him out the squad, it's only other players coming into the squad and playing better that's putting him under threat.

He’s had five caps, including one at 10 and one off the bench. His first two were in very heavy rain which is a nightmare for any 15, especially one whose strengths lie in attack.
They’re both exactly the same age so the time to improve on weaknesses should be similar. Furbank is still pretty new to the position having, to the best of my knowledge, played 10 or 12 throughout his junior career so his major weakness, positioning, will only improve. I fear Porter’s heavy/slow feet in d will only get heavier/slower.
Anyway we’ve been over this ad nauseam so I’ll leave it there.

I must have missed that because I feel like this is new for me.

And it's interesting how differently we see Furbank. Because I see his lack of pace and feel like he's Goode mkII. And that's not what I would want in my FB. Maybe that's also my bias creeping in as my biggest rugby watching years were spent with Mike Brown as Quins' FB, and I very much liked the way he hit the line, compared to Goode/Furbank, who hit it closer in, and perhaps look to bring others into play a bit more.

It's also interesting that this has stemmed out of Malins moving to play FB, when I see him as having that converted FH skillset to allow him to hit the line at IC effectively, but he's also got the pace to run those lovely lines between the OC and wings.

Furbank does not lack pace or running ability. Nothing like Goode either, imo almost opposite strengths and weaknesses. Furbank plies his attacking trade out wide so I am puzzled all round

[Stom]

He’s had five caps, including one at 10 and one off the bench. His first two were in very heavy rain which is a nightmare for any 15, especially one whose strengths lie in attack.
They’re both exactly the same age so the time to improve on weaknesses should be similar. Furbank is still pretty new to the position having, to the best of my knowledge, played 10 or 12 throughout his junior career so his major weakness, positioning, will only improve. I fear Porter’s heavy/slow feet in d will only get heavier/slower.
Anyway we’ve been over this ad nauseam so I’ll leave it there.

I must have missed that because I feel like this is new for me.

And it's interesting how differently we see Furbank. Because I see his lack of pace and feel like he's Goode mkII. And that's not what I would want in my FB. Maybe that's also my bias creeping in as my biggest rugby watching years were spent with Mike Brown as Quins' FB, and I very much liked the way he hit the line, compared to Goode/Furbank, who hit it closer in, and perhaps look to bring others into play a bit more.

It's also interesting that this has stemmed out of Malins moving to play FB, when I see him as having that converted FH skillset to allow him to hit the line at IC effectively, but he's also got the pace to run those lovely lines between the OC and wings.

Furbank does not lack pace or running ability. Nothing like Goode either, imo almost opposite strengths and weaknesses. Furbank plies his attacking trade out wide so I am puzzled all round

I'm getting confused now...