Jones gone (Now 100% confirmed)

[Which Tyler]

Cole's problem was that he wasnt doing enough outside of the scrum. His tackle count was low, he rarely carried and didnt hit enough rucks. He has actually improved in that regard since he was dropped.

From what I recall, Cole's principle problem 3 years ago was that he was playing 80 minutes of rugby week-in, week-out; and hadn't had a summer off in forever. He was knackered, which leads to things like not hitting enough rucks, not carrying etc.

He was then part of a scrum that got munched by SA - in large (but far from sole) part due to Mako being picked to start on the other side.

[Banquo]

Cole's problem was that he wasnt doing enough outside of the scrum. His tackle count was low, he rarely carried and didnt hit enough rucks. He has actually improved in that regard since he was dropped.

From what I recall, Cole's principle problem 3 years ago was that he was playing 80 minutes of rugby week-in, week-out; and hadn't had a summer off in forever. He was knackered, which leads to things like not hitting enough rucks, not carrying etc.

He was then part of a scrum that got munched by SA - in large (but far from sole) part due to Mako being picked to start on the other side.

Yes, I said that earlier- poor bloke was beasted for years. But can't think at 35 time has been reversed so much, even with the world greatest S and C coach - and I always thought Cole's work in the loose was quite underrated, he may not have had deft hands, but he was pretty good over the ball and as a guard.

[Mr Mwenda]

Is this strength and conditioning coach the person who suggested Watson at full back at the weekend do you think?

[Banquo]

Is this strength and conditioning coach the person who suggested Watson at full back at the weekend do you think?

smart bloke, ahead of the curve

[Tom Moore]

So, the Granuiad believes the next coach could pick 5 England teams… ermmm.

Five England players for each starting position
Hide
1) Ellis Genge, Mako Vunipola, Val Rapava-Ruskin, Joe Marler, Alec Hepburn

2) Luke Cowan-Dickie, Jamie George, George McGuigan, Jack Singleton, Jack Walker

3) Kyle Sinckler, Will Stuart, Dan Cole, Joe Heyes, Nick Schonert

4) Maro Itoje, Charlie Ewels, Ollie Chessum, Hugh Tizard, Dave Attwood

5) Jonny Hill, David Ribbans, Nick Isiekwe, Joe Launchbury, George Martin

6) Courtney Lawes, Alex Coles, Jack Willis, Tom Pearson, Tom Willis

7) Tom Curry, Sam Simmonds, Ben Earl, Ted Hill, Lewis Ludlow

8) Billy Vunipola, Alex Dombrandt, Zach Mercer, Lewis Ludluam, Alfie Barbeary

9) Jack van Poortvliet, Ben Youngs, Raffi Quirke, Alex Mitchell, Danny Care

10) Marcus Smith, George Ford, Orlando Bailey, Charlie Atkinson, Alex Goode

11) Jonny May, Elliot Daly, Henry Arundell, Adam Radwan, Cadan Murley

12) Owen Farrell, Henry Slade, Dan Kelly, Alex Lozowski, Luke Northmore

13) Manu Tuilagi, Guy Porter, Ollie Lawrence, Joe Marchant, Paolo Odogwu

14) Jack Nowell, Joe Cokanasiga, Max Malins, Ollie Hassell-Collins, Ollie Thorley

15) Freddie Steward, Tommy Freeman, Anthony Watson, George Furbank, Joe Carpenter

It's Charlie Ewels being on there that really upsets me.

[Oakboy]

So, the Granuiad believes the next coach could pick 5 England teams… ermmm.

Five England players for each starting position
Hide
1) Ellis Genge, Mako Vunipola, Val Rapava-Ruskin, Joe Marler, Alec Hepburn

2) Luke Cowan-Dickie, Jamie George, George McGuigan, Jack Singleton, Jack Walker

3) Kyle Sinckler, Will Stuart, Dan Cole, Joe Heyes, Nick Schonert

4) Maro Itoje, Charlie Ewels, Ollie Chessum, Hugh Tizard, Dave Attwood

5) Jonny Hill, David Ribbans, Nick Isiekwe, Joe Launchbury, George Martin

6) Courtney Lawes, Alex Coles, Jack Willis, Tom Pearson, Tom Willis

7) Tom Curry, Sam Simmonds, Ben Earl, Ted Hill, Lewis Ludlow

8) Billy Vunipola, Alex Dombrandt, Zach Mercer, Lewis Ludluam, Alfie Barbeary

9) Jack van Poortvliet, Ben Youngs, Raffi Quirke, Alex Mitchell, Danny Care

10) Marcus Smith, George Ford, Orlando Bailey, Charlie Atkinson, Alex Goode

11) Jonny May, Elliot Daly, Henry Arundell, Adam Radwan, Cadan Murley

12) Owen Farrell, Henry Slade, Dan Kelly, Alex Lozowski, Luke Northmore

13) Manu Tuilagi, Guy Porter, Ollie Lawrence, Joe Marchant, Paolo Odogwu

14) Jack Nowell, Joe Cokanasiga, Max Malins, Ollie Hassell-Collins, Ollie Thorley

15) Freddie Steward, Tommy Freeman, Anthony Watson, George Furbank, Joe Carpenter

It's Charlie Ewels being on there that really upsets me.

Five No 8s without T Willis destroys any credibility. Goode at 10 and Farrell at 12 does not help either.

[Banquo]

So, the Granuiad believes the next coach could pick 5 England teams… ermmm.

Five England players for each starting position
Hide
1) Ellis Genge, Mako Vunipola, Val Rapava-Ruskin, Joe Marler, Alec Hepburn

2) Luke Cowan-Dickie, Jamie George, George McGuigan, Jack Singleton, Jack Walker

3) Kyle Sinckler, Will Stuart, Dan Cole, Joe Heyes, Nick Schonert

4) Maro Itoje, Charlie Ewels, Ollie Chessum, Hugh Tizard, Dave Attwood

5) Jonny Hill, David Ribbans, Nick Isiekwe, Joe Launchbury, George Martin

6) Courtney Lawes, Alex Coles, Jack Willis, Tom Pearson, Tom Willis

7) Tom Curry, Sam Simmonds, Ben Earl, Ted Hill, Lewis Ludlow

8) Billy Vunipola, Alex Dombrandt, Zach Mercer, Lewis Ludluam, Alfie Barbeary

9) Jack van Poortvliet, Ben Youngs, Raffi Quirke, Alex Mitchell, Danny Care

10) Marcus Smith, George Ford, Orlando Bailey, Charlie Atkinson, Alex Goode

11) Jonny May, Elliot Daly, Henry Arundell, Adam Radwan, Cadan Murley

12) Owen Farrell, Henry Slade, Dan Kelly, Alex Lozowski, Luke Northmore

13) Manu Tuilagi, Guy Porter, Ollie Lawrence, Joe Marchant, Paolo Odogwu

14) Jack Nowell, Joe Cokanasiga, Max Malins, Ollie Hassell-Collins, Ollie Thorley

15) Freddie Steward, Tommy Freeman, Anthony Watson, George Furbank, Joe Carpenter

It's Charlie Ewels being on there that really upsets me.

Five No 8s without T Willis destroys any credibility. Goode at 10 and Farrell at 12 does not help either.

TWillis is at 6

[fivepointer]

What the list does do is identify the current strengths and weaknesses in our player base. Loads of good players - some of those in the 5th team are very tidy performers - but just lacking at the top end.

[Banquo]

What the list does do is identify the current strengths and weaknesses in our player base. Loads of good players - some of those in the 5th team are very tidy performers - but just lacking at the top end.

yep, been the case for a while now.

[p/d]

some of those in the 5th team are very tidy performers

just a shame Ewels missed out on breaking into it

[Puja]

lolz

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63955885

At least it's against a "World XV" than England. The press in the week beforehand would've been unbearable.

Puja

[Banquo]

lolz

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63955885

At least it's against a "World XV" than England. The press in the week beforehand would've been unbearable.

Puja

true, must admit I saw the headline and assumed it was v England...it would have been funny.

[FKAS]

https://archive.ph/6h2eE

RFU have found negotiations more difficult than expected as Borthwick apparently signed a new three year deal in the summer that wasn't announced publicly. Assumptions were he only had a contract until the summer. Another set of revised figures (upwards) for what the RFU allegedly offered and what Tigers are allegedly demanding as well.

Kevin Sinfield the current favourite to take the Tigers job per the article which might rule him out of joining Borthwick at England.

[Banquo]

such incompetence

[Puja]

Sacking Jones without having a replacement at least secured in principle, is utterly inexcusable. I had assumed it was all sorted behind the scenes already and the wrangling was over the assistants (which would've been bad enough).

It's not conclusive that replacing Eddie with Borthwick this close to the RWC was a good idea anyway, let alone if the plan was "replace Eddie with TBC."

Puja

[Timbo]

Borthwick should turn them down. Ludicrous.

[Mikey Brown]

I can only laugh at this point. How was it possible to make such a mess of this?

I saw Andy Robinson has resigned as head coach of Romania.

[p/d]

Why the heck would Borthwick have signed a 3 yr contract when it was good as done that he would be taking over after the WC.

If that is the case then they should tell Leicester and Borthwick to stick it and appoint a caretaker for now (Dimes) then look elsewhere

[Mr Mwenda]

Why the heck would Borthwick have signed a 3 yr contract when it was good as done that he would be taking over after the WC.

If that is the case then they should tell Leicester and Borthwick to stick it and appoint a caretaker for now (Dimes) then look elsewhere

Where does the claim it was as good as done come from? It's been talked about so much I no longer remember. Was it all just our hopes?

[Puja]

Why the heck would Borthwick have signed a 3 yr contract when it was good as done that he would be taking over after the WC.

If that is the case then they should tell Leicester and Borthwick to stick it and appoint a caretaker for now (Dimes) then look elsewhere

You're genuinely saying that Borthwick should have turned down a three year job security and a payrise on the arrogant assumption that he'd walk into the England job after the RWC?

Puja

[p/d]

Why the heck would Borthwick have signed a 3 yr contract when it was good as done that he would be taking over after the WC.

If that is the case then they should tell Leicester and Borthwick to stick it and appoint a caretaker for now (Dimes) then look elsewhere

Where does the claim it was as good as done come from? It's been talked about so much I no longer remember. Was it all just our hopes?

I no longer remember, so confused. Probably an assumption based on loose facts. Just don’t get why a 3 yr contract would not be announced publicly……… such a farce this is becoming I’m tempted to look out a coaching certificate myself

[p/d]

Why the heck would Borthwick have signed a 3 yr contract when it was good as done that he would be taking over after the WC.

If that is the case then they should tell Leicester and Borthwick to stick it and appoint a caretaker for now (Dimes) then look elsewhere

You're genuinely saying that Borthwick should have turned down a three year job security and a payrise on the arrogant assumption that he'd walk into the England job after the RWC?

Puja

No. I thought it was a done deal after WC. I was wrong ….. just pissed off with the whole thing. Get what I want - Jones out - and yet the powers that be show a level of incompetence that makes ya hang your head in shame

[fivepointer]

Its a mess that surely would have been averted with some groundwork being laid months ago. The RFU knew Jones would go after the WC. They made of point of saying they wanted his successor to be on board for the WC. They presumably had their eye on Borthwick last season, so its hard to believe that no one was in contact to check on his availability, or his contractual situation.
Looks like this is going cost the RFU £2M + I doubt they've factored that in to their calculations.

[Banquo]

Very poor. No reason why Borthwick or Tigers should announce it tbh, and very smart by Tigers to make sure they get a good pay off in the event of what was likely to happen. In fairness, I'd doubt Borthwick is on 3 years notice, so he probably could resign and reduce the pay off one would think, but why would he,

TBH, he's probably not worth that payoff, so the RFU should scramble for Razor imo. But what a hole they've dug themselves- surely a quick call to Borthwick before sacking Eddie may have been a good idea??

[Mellsblue]

Yep. Goodness knows what they were doing for the week and a half after the loss to SA. As people have already said, there was a plan, supposedly, to have Jones’s successor in place at the end of the season so they must’ve had a shortlist already in place?!?!?
Robust Succession Plan Day is in severe danger of turning in to Robust Succession Plan Month. I might design a badge to wear on my lapel.