EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[Banquo]

Who gave Dan his new fitness regime, I wonder?

I don't know but the Vunipolas have been on the Gregg's fitness regime for a while now.

I think they look as fit as they ever have done- Billy does a good 80+ minute shift most games at club level, and Mako does a good 60. But we probably need to move past them, as I thought we had with young Dan.

[FKAS]

Who gave Dan his new fitness regime, I wonder?

I don't know but the Vunipolas have been on the Gregg's fitness regime for a while now.

I think they look as fit as they ever have done- Billy does a good 80+ minute shift most games at club level, and Mako does a good 60. But we probably need to move past them, as I thought we had with young Dan.

It was more in jest. Billy has always had a great engine on him, the issue is it's increasingly like a tractor engine and there's no real speed or acceleration. Mako does play a good 60 mins but his output does decline sharply and his scrum work is still fairly weak.

Depends on what type of game plan we're going for, there's very few props in world rugby that have the handling skills of Mako. Not many 8s are as relentless as Billy.

[Banquo]

I don't know but the Vunipolas have been on the Gregg's fitness regime for a while now.

I think they look as fit as they ever have done- Billy does a good 80+ minute shift most games at club level, and Mako does a good 60. But we probably need to move past them, as I thought we had with young Dan.

It was more in jest. Billy has always had a great engine on him, the issue is it's increasingly like a tractor engine and there's no real speed or acceleration. Mako does play a good 60 mins but his output does decline sharply and his scrum work is still fairly weak.

Depends on what type of game plan we're going for, there's very few props in world rugby that have the handling skills of Mako. Not many 8s are as relentless as Billy.

quite.

[Puja]

The problem I've got with Billy right now is that he appears to have reverted back into his 2013 edition for England - give him the ball and, while he might make a dent, it's 50:50 whether he loses it in contact or not. I don't know why that's happening, because he went through many years of being pretty secure and I assumed he had it cracked, but in the AIs, he got stripped or dropped it so many times.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Despite this I agree with what Puja says about his ball retention. Is it to do with focusing too much on offloads perhaps? Perhaps thinking too many steps ahead and leads to him not dominating contact in the same way either?

Impressive from Farrell too, though he does seem to do a lot of offloads when he’s been scragged in a position you would hope he’d break through the line.

[fivepointer]

More evidence of BV's effectiveness. The stats suggest he's had a very good year, at least at club level.

[Banquo]

More evidence of BV's effectiveness. The stats suggest he's had a very good year, at least at club level.

He has. On club form, he'd be in you'd think.

[FKAS]

To be fair to Billy the run in to the end of last season he was pretty much back to his best. Not looked quite as good as far this season but Sarries have been doing well and he is heavily involved so must be doing something right.

[Timbo]

Thought after the summer tour of Oz Billy was properly back. Not necessarily peak Billy, but a strong option again. He was really bad in the Autumn, though. Continues to be very good for Sarries, and seems to step up a level when they are really challenged too.

Pretty sure Borthwick will stick with him through to the World Cup.

[Banquo]

Thought after the summer tour of Oz Billy was properly back. Not necessarily peak Billy, but a strong option again. He was really bad in the Autumn, though. Continues to be very good for Sarries, and seems to step up a level when they are really challenged too.

Pretty sure Borthwick will stick with him through to the World Cup.

Thought he was a mixed bag, but his handling was abysmal which does downgrade his performances; he still offers enough imo.

[Banquo]

More evidence of BV's effectiveness. The stats suggest he's had a very good year, at least at club level.

Interesting that Mitchell features highly and gets great reviews, but I'm not convinced watching quite a lot of Saints- he does a lot of odd things and gets scragged too easily with his Youngs like pick up and run sideways a bit.

[Puja]

Thought after the summer tour of Oz Billy was properly back. Not necessarily peak Billy, but a strong option again. He was really bad in the Autumn, though. Continues to be very good for Sarries, and seems to step up a level when they are really challenged too.

Pretty sure Borthwick will stick with him through to the World Cup.

Thought he was a mixed bag, but his handling was abysmal which does downgrade his performances; he still offers enough imo.

I wonder if his failures of ball retention are a question of confidence in the game plan as well? Like maybe he tries to take the ball on too far with England or try to make too much of an impact, whereas he's more at ease with Saracens and more confident that support will be there for him if he hits the deck?

I don't know, might be reaching here. May just be that the difference between his performances for Saracens and for England are just the quality of the tacklers and jackallers that he's coming up against for the internationals.

Puja

[Banquo]

Thought after the summer tour of Oz Billy was properly back. Not necessarily peak Billy, but a strong option again. He was really bad in the Autumn, though. Continues to be very good for Sarries, and seems to step up a level when they are really challenged too.

Pretty sure Borthwick will stick with him through to the World Cup.

Thought he was a mixed bag, but his handling was abysmal which does downgrade his performances; he still offers enough imo.

I wonder if his failures of ball retention are a question of confidence in the game plan as well? Like maybe he tries to take the ball on too far with England or try to make too much of an impact, whereas he's more at ease with Saracens and more confident that support will be there for him if he hits the deck?

I don't know, might be reaching here. May just be that the difference between his performances for Saracens and for England are just the quality of the tacklers and jackallers that he's coming up against for the internationals.

Puja

You've morphed into Dors.......modding clearly has consequnces

[Puja]

Ignoring the grievous insults above to my august personage, some good news for England with Sinckler due to return from injury for Bristol this weekend: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... nd-england

Anyone heard of news of Ford or Smith's return dates? (ETA. A google suggests Ford and Quirke will be back on 27th Jan, which is cutting it tight for the 6N. Both attended the England fitness camps last week though. Smith is apparently due back 15th Jan, although he was not fit to go to the camp, so who knows).

Puja

[16th man]

Thought after the summer tour of Oz Billy was properly back. Not necessarily peak Billy, but a strong option again. He was really bad in the Autumn, though. Continues to be very good for Sarries, and seems to step up a level when they are really challenged too.

Pretty sure Borthwick will stick with him through to the World Cup.

Thought he was a mixed bag, but his handling was abysmal which does downgrade his performances; he still offers enough imo.

I wonder if his failures of ball retention are a question of confidence in the game plan as well? Like maybe he tries to take the ball on too far with England or try to make too much of an impact, whereas he's more at ease with Saracens and more confident that support will be there for him if he hits the deck?

I don't know, might be reaching here. May just be that the difference between his performances for Saracens and for England are just the quality of the tacklers and jackallers that he's coming up against for the internationals.

Puja

Theres also the possibility that Sarries spread the defence more, with greater threats out wide and a more consistent kicking game, so defences can't be as narrow and set, knowing full well that they can be in place to smash Billy because if it goes wider they can easily cover across onto Farrell, Tuilagi on the end of a Farrell pass, or Nowell about 15 yards behind the gainline "accelerating"

[Epaminondas Pules]

Ignoring the grievous insults above to my august personage, some good news for England with Sinckler due to return from injury for Bristol this weekend: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... nd-england

Anyone heard of news of Ford or Smith's return dates? (ETA. A google suggests Ford and Quirke will be back on 27th Jan, which is cutting it tight for the 6N. Both attended the England fitness camps last week though. Smith is apparently due back 15th Jan, although he was not fit to go to the camp, so who knows).

Puja

Yeah Ford and Quirke due back before the end of the month all being well. Both training. Arundell should be similar. Tight, certainly for 6 Nations, but I'd be surprised is Borthwick didn't bring them in in some guise.

[Mellsblue]

Which are the three backs Mellsblue most wants to be fit for the 6N?

[Puja]

Which are the three backs Mellsblue most wants to be fit for the 6N?

Rich Lane, Rich Lane, Rich Lane. It's like Beetlejuice.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Which are the three backs Mellsblue most wants to be fit for the 6N?

Rich Lane, Rich Lane, Rich Lane. It's like Beetlejuice.

Puja

That’ll be for the World Cup. I don’t want the oppo to get too much tape on him. Lam is obvs not picking him too much for that very reason.

[Mellsblue]

Which are the three backs Mellsblue most wants to be fit for the 6N?

Rich Lane, Rich Lane, Rich Lane. It's like Beetlejuice.

Puja

Just dawned on me that this might be a very subtle hint that you think I make too many posts/poor jokes about RICH LANE!!!. Bloody good job nobody feels like that about my hilarious Goldington Road Finishing School posts…

[Puja]

Which are the three backs Mellsblue most wants to be fit for the 6N?

Rich Lane, Rich Lane, Rich Lane. It's like Beetlejuice.

Puja

Just dawned on me that this might be a very subtle hint that you think I make too many posts/poor jokes about RICH LANE!!!. Bloody good job nobody feels like that about my hilarious Goldington Road Finishing School posts…

That's an outrageous falsehood - I'm not subtle!

But no, I'm not hinting that at all.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

There could be some very interesting selections, not least from a leadership point of view, if T Curry, Lawes and Farrell are all unavailable.

Do we think Ben Curry would finally get a cap? Drop Pearson straight in? Underhill either seems to have faded or just isn’t considered reliable enough from a fitness POV?

I suppose we have no idea what Borthwick’s stance on the French-based players would be. I can understand if it’s not worth the hassle to have them in consideration, but maybe there’s some insight to be had from guys playing in the top 14?

[Margin_Walker]

He seems able to pick ex Worcester/Wasps players in France this season, so J Willis should definitely be on the radar. Otherwise I wouldn't see anything else changing on that front.

Back row is probably the most interesting aspect of Borthwick's first squad. There are lots of players putting their hand up, so it really is anyone's guess. That's before you even get to the does he play a flanker or a hybrid at 6.

[Puja]

He seems able to pick ex Worcester/Wasps players in France this season, so J Willis should definitely be on the radar. Otherwise I wouldn't see anything else changing on that front.

Back row is probably the most interesting aspect of Borthwick's first squad. There are lots of players putting their hand up, so it really is anyone's guess. That's before you even get to the does he play a flanker or a hybrid at 6.

He *can* pick them, but the problem is that they would have over a week's less preparation time than the rest of the squad, as they wouldn't be released for the weekend before the 6N like English-based players would. Given how little prep time England already have and the fact that there's some fairly significant changes, that extra week's going to make a massive difference.

Puja

[Margin_Walker]

He seems able to pick ex Worcester/Wasps players in France this season, so J Willis should definitely be on the radar. Otherwise I wouldn't see anything else changing on that front.

Back row is probably the most interesting aspect of Borthwick's first squad. There are lots of players putting their hand up, so it really is anyone's guess. That's before you even get to the does he play a flanker or a hybrid at 6.

He *can* pick them, but the problem is that they would have over a week's less preparation time than the rest of the squad, as they wouldn't be released for the weekend before the 6N like English-based players would. Given how little prep time England already have and the fact that there's some fairly significant changes, that extra week's going to make a massive difference.

Puja

True, it definitely puts him at a big disadvantage, but does at least leave the door open a jar if he really was playing out of his skin in France.