Squad named

[FKAS]

I'd say Genge has stepped up.

I'd agree, but, I'm pretty sure he was only benching against Tonga and USA in 2019 RWC

So he wasn't exactly one of our best at the time
(I can't remember if that was an EJ selection issue, or he wasn't good enough off the top of my head though)

Genge was only 23 at the time and had the vastly more experienced Vunipola and Marler ahead of him. Genge has developed nicely since, become a leader and at 27 is now in his prime.

[Mikey Brown]

I'd agree, but, I'm pretty sure he was only benching against Tonga and USA in 2019 RWC

So he wasn't exactly one of our best at the time
(I can't remember if that was an EJ selection issue, or he wasn't good enough off the top of my head though)

I wouldn't have thought those 2 games are the important ones? Wasn't he dropped for Lawes for NZ and SA? IIRC Lawes was making a huge impact off the bench at the time, but was maybe more suited to continue doing that with Kruis being the go-to set piece guy. Easy in hindsight though.

I think it's fair that basically nobody has been playing better in recent times. Curry for instance I think has still been good but nothing like his reputation suggests. When the whole team is collectively underperforming it's hard to lay that at any one player's feet.

Think they were referring to Genge?

I think Lawes has got better when fit in the last couple of years, Ludlam also, Daly has hit his straps again at club level. I totally agree with your collective underperformance point.

Ah yes. The word 'Genge' should have given it away.

[16th man]

I'd say Genge has stepped up.

I'd agree, but, I'm pretty sure he was only benching against Tonga and USA in 2019 RWC

So he wasn't exactly one of our best at the time
(I can't remember if that was an EJ selection issue, or he wasn't good enough off the top of my head though)

I wouldn't have thought those 2 games are the important ones? Wasn't he dropped for Lawes for NZ and SA? IIRC Lawes was making a huge impact off the bench at the time, but was maybe more suited to continue doing that with Kruis being the go-to set piece guy. Easy in hindsight though.

I think it's fair that basically nobody has been playing better in recent times. Curry for instance I think has still been good but nothing like his reputation suggests. When the whole team is collectively underperforming it's hard to lay that at any one player's feet.

Curry has suffered from being dicked about positional by Eddie. We can only wonder what If he'd been left to develop as a 7, seeing as he has a shout at already being in the top 2 or 3 in the world in 2019

[Stom]

I'd agree, but, I'm pretty sure he was only benching against Tonga and USA in 2019 RWC

So he wasn't exactly one of our best at the time
(I can't remember if that was an EJ selection issue, or he wasn't good enough off the top of my head though)

I wouldn't have thought those 2 games are the important ones? Wasn't he dropped for Lawes for NZ and SA? IIRC Lawes was making a huge impact off the bench at the time, but was maybe more suited to continue doing that with Kruis being the go-to set piece guy. Easy in hindsight though.

I think it's fair that basically nobody has been playing better in recent times. Curry for instance I think has still been good but nothing like his reputation suggests. When the whole team is collectively underperforming it's hard to lay that at any one player's feet.

Curry has suffered from being dicked about positional by Eddie. We can only wonder what If he'd been left to develop as a 7, seeing as he has a shout at already being in the top 2 or 3 in the world in 2019

I disagree. I think curry has become a much more rounded player, and adds much more to the game now. His carrying is really good now, imo.

I feel like he’s suffered in exactly the same way Itoje has: late Eddie England played like crap.

[Timbo]

Cowan-Dickie is another I think who's improved - not massively, certainly, but when he's not injured he's established first choice now whereas back then he was certainly George's understudy. Ludlam also, although like Genge he was a squad player who rotated in for the Tonga/USA games IIRC rather than a frontliner.

Up to and probably including the Lions tour I think you’re right about LCD. Still battling a number of injuries but would have been in the conversation as one of the better hookers in world rugby. Post tour he’s been pretty disappointing & to my mind is back behind Jamie George again.

[francoisfou]

I’m looking forward to watching Jack Willis in the 6N, as he’s shone playing for Toulouse, but with Earl and Curry B vying for the 7 jersey, the competition is healthily tough!

[Oakboy]

I’m looking forward to watching Jack Willis in the 6N, as he’s shine playing for Toulouse, but with Earl and Curry B vying for the 7 jersey, the competition is healthily tough!

That will be a real litmus test for Borthwick in my estimation. I want to see Jack W get a run of games. What he offers overall puts him ahead of all other candidates for a flanker's shirt, IMO.

[p/d]

Don't backtrack on me Dors ........ yes, selection will always create great debate but, whoever he selects, it is all about the collective performance at this stage

[Oakboy]

Don't backtrack on me Dors ........ yes, selection will always create great debate but, whoever he selects, it is all about the collective performance at this stage

True. When it comes to the itty-gritty though - the transformation from non-performing to buzzing - even after you factor in skill-sets of the individual, character (pure dog, if you like) stands out as the crunch contribution leading players to total more than the sum of their parts. For that, I'd want Willis.

[Mikey Brown]

That’s one of the most bizarre sentences I’ve ever read. Good work.

[p/d]

Don't backtrack on me Dors ........ yes, selection will always create great debate but, whoever he selects, it is all about the collective performance at this stage

True. When it comes to the itty-gritty though - the transformation from non-performing to buzzing - even after you factor in skill-sets of the individual, character (pure dog, if you like) stands out as the crunch contribution leading players to total more than the sum of their parts. For that, I'd want Willis.

Yes, I would like to see Willis give an run. Similarly I don't want Lawes at 6, Farrell at 12 nor Daly at fb. However if that does end up being the line up then I will save my disappointed for when I am out walking the dogs. At which point I shall scream expletives, apologies to a passing runner as I put my clothes back on before returning refreshed and supportive of all things Big Stevie does!!!

[p/d]

That’s one of the most bizarre sentences I’ve ever read. Good work.

It is pure gold!

[Oakboy]

That’s one of the most bizarre sentences I’ve ever read. Good work.

It is pure gold!

One tries to please.

[Timbo]

Yeah, we definitely need talk about Manu. Thinking I might have been wrong to defend his selection. Looks completely shot.

Needs to put the weight back on, or maybe he’s just done through age & injuries.

[fivepointer]

[Mikey Brown]

Interesting Dunn is on over Blamire. Great for Ribbans to get another go.

Tough for Lawes but it’s hard not to be more excited about seeing someone else get a go in the 6 shirt.

[Banquo]

Interesting that he's replaced Lawes with a second row....though there are a lot of versatile back rows in the squad. Ted Hill might have been a more like for like ish replacement (or even Coles, who appears to have crashed out of favour). Pleased for Ribbans.

[fivepointer]

Chessum or Isiekwe as 6 options? Ribbans should have been in the original squad.

Thats really bad luck for McGuigan. With George taking a bang yesterday there might be a chance he wont be available. Hard not to feel pleased for Tom Dunn who didnt get a fair shake under Jones.

[Banquo]

Chessum or Isiekwe as 6 options? Ribbans should have been in the original squad.

Thats really bad luck for McGuigan. With George taking a bang yesterday there might be a chance he wont be available. Hard not to feel pleased for Tom Dunn who didnt get a fair shake under Jones.

yes, but Chessum is a lock, I've been told...and Isiekwe is fair enough. Agreed on Ribbans, especially as he was one of the five changes, along with Coles and Furbank (Saints/Tigers conspiracy theory ).

[Mellsblue]

Interesting that he's replaced Lawes with a second row....

Was commenting on this but you beat me to the punch. I’m happy that he wants two ‘proper’ flankers but the thought of Lawes in the row come scrum time would worry me. Perhaps he’s just there to be in camp rather than first team selection. It’s a bit odd whatever the reasoning. All moot given he can’t stay fit, I suppose.

[Mellsblue]

I’m with Eddie when it comes to Dunn.

[Banquo]

Interesting that he's replaced Lawes with a second row....

Was commenting on this but you beat me to the punch. I’m happy that he wants two ‘proper’ flankers but the thought of Lawes in the row come scrum time would worry me. Perhaps he’s just there to be in camp rather than first team selection. It’s a bit odd whatever the reasoning. All moot given he can’t stay fit, I suppose.

Have to say Lawes has been very good at 6 internationally for a while, much as it pains me having been so against it.

[francoisfou]

Interesting that he's replaced Lawes with a second row....though there are a lot of versatile back rows in the squad. Ted Hill might have been a more like for like ish replacement (or even Coles, who appears to have crashed out of favour). Pleased for Ribbans.

I too, would have thought of Ted Hill to replace Lawes. Pleased for Dunn too.

[Mikey Brown]

I’d love to see Hill get a shot at 6. I suppose I’m just more worried about lock than flanker.

[Banquo]

I’d love to see Hill get a shot at 6. I suppose I’m just more worried about lock than flanker.

aye, though I do think Jonny Hill is pretty good when not being crassly dim; Ribbans is a bloody good tight head lock tho, imo- but his fitness is problematic.