Squad named

[FKAS]

Chessum or Isiekwe as 6 options? Ribbans should have been in the original squad.

Thats really bad luck for McGuigan. With George taking a bang yesterday there might be a chance he wont be available. Hard not to feel pleased for Tom Dunn who didnt get a fair shake under Jones.

yes, but Chessum is a lock, I've been told...and Isiekwe is fair enough. Agreed on Ribbans, especially as he was one of the five changes, along with Coles and Furbank (Saints/Tigers conspiracy theory ).

Chessum is a lock, played there Friday night.

Unless of course Borthwick is going to go completely left field and select a pair of opensides at 6 and 7. Chessum looks likely to do a job at 6.

[Mellsblue]

Interesting that he's replaced Lawes with a second row....

Was commenting on this but you beat me to the punch. I’m happy that he wants two ‘proper’ flankers but the thought of Lawes in the row come scrum time would worry me. Perhaps he’s just there to be in camp rather than first team selection. It’s a bit odd whatever the reasoning. All moot given he can’t stay fit, I suppose.

Have to say Lawes has been very good at 6 internationally for a while, much as it pains me having been so against it.

True. I suppose I’m still scared from the Jones philosophy that we must have a third frontline jumper leading to poor thinking on selections, ie Itoje or Coles at 6.

[Mikey Brown]

I’d love to see Hill get a shot at 6. I suppose I’m just more worried about lock than flanker.

aye, though I do think Jonny Hill is pretty good when not being crassly dim; Ribbans is a bloody good tight head lock tho, imo- but his fitness is problematic.

Yeah, similar to the Sarries screaming thing it will be interesting to see how differently Borthwick might want to use Hill. The ‘enforcer’ or WUM role feels a bit dated now. It worked on Swain but I’m not sure he’s the best person to be risking those situations.

If he can concentrate on just being a set piece anchor and throw his weight around a bit in contact we may even see Itoje’s form return from the depths.

[Banquo]

Chessum or Isiekwe as 6 options? Ribbans should have been in the original squad.

Thats really bad luck for McGuigan. With George taking a bang yesterday there might be a chance he wont be available. Hard not to feel pleased for Tom Dunn who didnt get a fair shake under Jones.

yes, but Chessum is a lock, I've been told...and Isiekwe is fair enough. Agreed on Ribbans, especially as he was one of the five changes, along with Coles and Furbank (Saints/Tigers conspiracy theory ).

Chessum is a lock, played there Friday night.

Unless of course Borthwick is going to go completely left field and select a pair of opensides at 6 and 7. Chessum looks likely to do a job at 6.

Fish biting early today

[Banquo]

Was commenting on this but you beat me to the punch. I’m happy that he wants two ‘proper’ flankers but the thought of Lawes in the row come scrum time would worry me. Perhaps he’s just there to be in camp rather than first team selection. It’s a bit odd whatever the reasoning. All moot given he can’t stay fit, I suppose.

Have to say Lawes has been very good at 6 internationally for a while, much as it pains me having been so against it.

True. I suppose I’m still scared from the Jones philosophy that we must have a third frontline jumper leading to poor thinking on selections, ie Itoje or Coles at 6.

Yes, although Coles is a good but learning club 6, it wasn’t great sticking him there by Eddie in hindsight

[FKAS]

Have to say Lawes has been very good at 6 internationally for a while, much as it pains me having been so against it.

True. I suppose I’m still scared from the Jones philosophy that we must have a third frontline jumper leading to poor thinking on selections, ie Itoje or Coles at 6.

Yes, although Coles is a good but learning club 6, it wasn’t great sticking him there by Eddie in hindsight

I don't think he let himself down and probably learned quite a bit from exposure at that level. Given the attack England were hoping to play having a player of that size who could pick good lines was pretty useful.

[Oakboy]

I was disappointed in Chessum in the game v Ospreys and commented on it in that thread (without response). I have not seen enough of him to have an opinion and wondered if that was just a one-off bad game. If not, how good is he? Just asking.

[FKAS]

I was disappointed in Chessum in the game v Ospreys and commented on it in that thread (without response). I have not seen enough of him to have an opinion and wondered if that was just a one-off bad game. If not, how good is he? Just asking.

Wasn't a good day at the office for the Tigers full stop. Chessum and Henderson is a new and youthful lock combination (22 and 23 respectively). Chessum emerged as a first team lock around the time Henderson did his knee so they've not had the chance to form a combination and then were up again two experienced international operators. It didn't click and certainly didn't go as planned. Chessum is normally paired with either Wells who's a bigger lump or Green who's quite handy at the set piece (poor man's Kruis) and normally does better. He's mobile for a big lad and a good all rounder but like most 22 year old forwards there's a lot of improvement still to come.

[Banquo]

True. I suppose I’m still scared from the Jones philosophy that we must have a third frontline jumper leading to poor thinking on selections, ie Itoje or Coles at 6.

Yes, although Coles is a good but learning club 6, it wasn’t great sticking him there by Eddie in hindsight

I don't think he let himself down and probably learned quite a bit from exposure at that level. Given the attack England were hoping to play having a player of that size who could pick good lines was pretty useful.

I didn't say he let himself down- but he went well at second row v Argentina, but sticking him at 6 v SA was a big stretch and he was exposed a bit. Its all well and good learning, but you also get 'judged', and that was a clear error from Jones.

[Oakboy]

I was disappointed in Chessum in the game v Ospreys and commented on it in that thread (without response). I have not seen enough of him to have an opinion and wondered if that was just a one-off bad game. If not, how good is he? Just asking.

Wasn't a good day at the office for the Tigers full stop. Chessum and Henderson is a new and youthful lock combination (22 and 23 respectively). Chessum emerged as a first team lock around the time Henderson did his knee so they've not had the chance to form a combination and then were up again two experienced international operators. It didn't click and certainly didn't go as planned. Chessum is normally paired with either Wells who's a bigger lump or Green who's quite handy at the set piece (poor man's Kruis) and normally does better. He's mobile for a big lad and a good all rounder but like most 22 year old forwards there's a lot of improvement still to come.

Thanks for that. The next question, obviously, is whether he is really ready for international stuff. He's in SB's squad so that must be on merit in his opinion. Is he ahead of Isiekwe and Ribbans?

[Banquo]

I was disappointed in Chessum in the game v Ospreys and commented on it in that thread (without response). I have not seen enough of him to have an opinion and wondered if that was just a one-off bad game. If not, how good is he? Just asking.

Wasn't a good day at the office for the Tigers full stop. Chessum and Henderson is a new and youthful lock combination (22 and 23 respectively). Chessum emerged as a first team lock around the time Henderson did his knee so they've not had the chance to form a combination and then were up again two experienced international operators. It didn't click and certainly didn't go as planned. Chessum is normally paired with either Wells who's a bigger lump or Green who's quite handy at the set piece (poor man's Kruis) and normally does better. He's mobile for a big lad and a good all rounder but like most 22 year old forwards there's a lot of improvement still to come.

Thanks for that. The next question, obviously, is whether he is really ready for international stuff. He's in SB's squad so that must be on merit in his opinion. Is he ahead of Isiekwe and Ribbans?

I like Chessum a lot as a carrier and players. Ribbans is different style of lock, and Isiekwe is straddling two positions....so I don't think its a hierarchy thing as such, more about what the team looks like and needs. So....is Chessum a tighthead lock (I don't know), Ribbans is. Do we want an authentic jumper at 6...Isiekwe fits there, Chessum also....

[SDHoneymonster]

Nothing seems to have come of it but both Daly and Mako V picked up injuries over the weekend too, might be yet more squad surgery required.

[Which Tyler]

I'm pleased for Dunn, but I'm not sure deserves it this time around.
He should have had more caps and far more minutes than he did 3 years ago; but he' nowhere near that form now (though he's also back out of the rut he was in after being (rightly) dropped by Eddie)

[Oakboy]

Wasn't a good day at the office for the Tigers full stop. Chessum and Henderson is a new and youthful lock combination (22 and 23 respectively). Chessum emerged as a first team lock around the time Henderson did his knee so they've not had the chance to form a combination and then were up again two experienced international operators. It didn't click and certainly didn't go as planned. Chessum is normally paired with either Wells who's a bigger lump or Green who's quite handy at the set piece (poor man's Kruis) and normally does better. He's mobile for a big lad and a good all rounder but like most 22 year old forwards there's a lot of improvement still to come.

Thanks for that. The next question, obviously, is whether he is really ready for international stuff. He's in SB's squad so that must be on merit in his opinion. Is he ahead of Isiekwe and Ribbans?

I like Chessum a lot as a carrier and players. Ribbans is different style of lock, and Isiekwe is straddling two positions....so I don't think its a hierarchy thing as such, more about what the team looks like and needs. So....is Chessum a tighthead lock (I don't know), Ribbans is. Do we want an authentic jumper at 6...Isiekwe fits there, Chessum also....

I imagine SB's fingers are firmly crossed against anything happening to Itoje or Hill, then?

[Puja]

I'm pleased for Dunn, but I'm not sure deserves it this time around.
He should have had more caps and far more minutes than he did 3 years ago; but he' nowhere near that form now (though he's also back out of the rut he was in after being (rightly) dropped by Eddie)

I'm a bit worried about our hooking options. If George is out with his concussion, then that leaves us starting Walker, with Dunn on the bench? I'd be much happier having Blamire in there - at least we know he can cut it when thrown in at the deep end.

Puja

[Timbo]

Mcguigan’s injury didn’t look like it will heal in time for a big international in 2 weeks tbh. Shame cos he’d had a great game & looks really ready for test rugby. Tom Dunn is a bit underwhelming, would have much preferred Blamire.

[Mikey Brown]

Daly and George out. Lawrence and Blamire in. Happy to see both those guys get a shot, but a big shame for Daly who has been playing very well.

Another interesting choice in terms of the positions of the replacements - was Daly being considered at 13 or Borthwick just took the chance to have a look at Lawrence knowing Marchant can cover wing? Doesn't leave much fullback cover does it? Slade?

[Mikey Brown]

Had a rough stab at what I would pick and that's a lot of new faces/combos. Scotland are all over the place too though so why not.

1. Genge
2. Walker
3. Sinkler
4. Itoje
5. Hill
6. Willis
7. Curry
8. Dombrandt

9. JVP
10. Smith/Farrell
11. OHC
12. Kelly/Tuilagi
13. Marchant
14. Murley
15. Steward

Blamire, Vunipola, Cole, Ribbans, Ludlam/Earl, Youngs. Smith/Farrell, Slade

I imagine there will have to be some sort of continuity retained in midfield at least with Tuilagi or Slade in there?

[Scrumhead]

I'm pleased for Dunn, but I'm not sure deserves it this time around.
He should have had more caps and far more minutes than he did 3 years ago; but he' nowhere near that form now (though he's also back out of the rut he was in after being (rightly) dropped by Eddie)

I'm a bit worried about our hooking options. If George is out with his concussion, then that leaves us starting Walker, with Dunn on the bench? I'd be much happier having Blamire in there - at least we know he can cut it when thrown in at the deep end.

Puja

Well Blamire’s back in, but it isn’t the most inspiring group …

In these circumstances, I’d probably pick Blamire to start with one of the others on the bench and then leave it in place for Italy to buy George a little more time to recover.

IMO, Walker is a better rugby player, but Dunn is probably the more solid option. I think Quins lineout woes have been a little more to do with the locks/lifters than with Walker’s throwing, but I’m not sure a test match setting is the right place to be testing (no pun intended) that theory.

Hopefully, McGuigan’s injury isn’t serious as I’d really like to see him establish himself with England.

As good as Daly’s form has been, I’m happy to see Lawrence back in the mix.

[Banquo]

as said Indicates Daly being considered at centre. Hopefully not. George is a massive loss.

Freeman is a good full back btw and I'd have him starting on the wing.

[p/d]

Great news for Lawrence. Would have been my choice ahead of Marchant anyway.

Because of his form Daly is a big loss. Hopefully not too damaging for fb cover as we have Freeman, Malins, Lane & Slade still available.

[Puja]

Daly and George out. Lawrence and Blamire in. Happy to see both those guys get a shot, but a big shame for Daly who has been playing very well.

Another interesting choice in terms of the positions of the replacements - was Daly being considered at 13 or Borthwick just took the chance to have a look at Lawrence knowing Marchant can cover wing? Doesn't leave much fullback cover does it? Slade?

Freeman and Malins would be viable options at 15 if Steward went down with anything.

Real shame for George as he was in excellent form - some of his lineout throwing for Sarries was as close to absolute perfect as it was possible to get. Hopefully Blamire impresses at training today and pushes himself to the front of the queue.

Puja

[fivepointer]

"George could return to Pennyhill Park later this week if he progresses through return-to-play protocols"

So he's not completely out of the picture.

Bringing in Blamire is the right call. Delighted for Ollie Lawrence.

[Mikey Brown]

Somehow typed OHC when I meant Freeman, but yeah I’m sure he could have a stab at playing fullback.

Malins I just forget exists entirely. I hope the move to Bristol sees him play 10 or 15 a bit more as he is very talented, but somehow seems a little wasted out wide despite a fantastic strike rate?

[Puja]

Had a rough stab at what I would pick and that's a lot of new faces/combos. Scotland are all over the place too though so why not.

1. Genge
2. Walker
3. Sinkler
4. Itoje
5. Hill
6. Willis
7. Curry
8. Dombrandt

9. JVP
10. Smith/Farrell
11. OHC
12. Kelly/Tuilagi
13. Marchant
14. Murley
15. Steward

Blamire, Vunipola, Cole, Ribbans, Ludlam/Earl, Youngs. Smith/Farrell, Slade

I imagine there will have to be some sort of continuity retained in midfield at least with Tuilagi or Slade in there?

I'd generally agree with that, with the only changes being Blamire and Walker swapped, Freeman and Slade in at 11 and 13, with OHC to the bench. Slade deserves to keep the 13 shirt based on recent form and, if Farrell's 10 as he's sadly going to be, then we need the extra playmaker.

Puja