Team for Italy

[fivepointer]

If Kelly and Slade are fit that might prompt a rethink a centre.

On balance, i'd leave the starting pack but look to alter a couple of subs (Rodd and Ribbans to come in)

[Which Tyler]

Out of interest - why do people keep calling for Lawrence at 12?

Is it just desperation? (Understandable, but hardly a solution)
From what I can tell, he seems to play IC about once a year, he's no more a 12 than Farrell or Slade are (as in, he could learn it with game time, but until he gets that game time, he isn't an IC).

IMO the solution to the problem of playing people out of position isn't to play someone else out of position.

ETA: for starts at IC vs other, from https://all.rugby/club/england/squad
Farrell: 56 : 164 (25% of starts at IC)
Slade: 18 : 185 (10% of starts at IC)
Lawrence: 6 : 53 (10% of starts at IC)

[Which Tyler]

TBH, it's a new squad under a new coach, and most (not all) of the major issues seemed to be communication / familiarity ones.​ There was also some promising stuff out there - with the ball, we had some ambition (less than I'd like, but more than we've seen recently); and these things take time to bed down.
I'd be loathe to make many changes at all at this stage - Week 3 is the time to make major changes, after the rest week.

I'd stick to players who were (or were considered to be) unavailable, and maybe the odd bench/starter swap.
So Jack Willis, and any of the injured players returning to fitness - and I don't think anyone is expected this week.
So Willis and Watson to start, probably for BCurry and OHC.

Yes, I want rid of Youngs and Farrell (and Mako), but absent viable alternatives, I'd stick with them - despite having called for their heads many times over the last 3 (well, 6) years.
TBH, BCurry and OHC deserve a chance to put right what went wrong; but they were also a bit... rabbit in the headlights... shellshocked... They're the most likely to need a bit of time to process WTF just happened. They're also the ones with superior, more experienced options waiting in the wings.

[p/d]

J Willis played 8 yesterday, bagging a try.

I think Curry is getting the shitty end of the stick for a couple of missed tackles, when he was actually one of the better players. Picking and dropping newbies when more seasoned starters misfired perhaps not the right message for SB to send out.

[Which Tyler]

I think Curry is getting the shitty end of the stick for a couple of missed tackles, when he was actually one of the better players. Picking and dropping newbies when more seasoned starters misfired perhaps not the right message for SB to send out.

Yeah, I just read EP's rewatch opinions on Curry, and am now questioning of live-opinion. I'll need a rewatch of my own, I often change my mind when I get around to that.

[Margin_Walker]

OHC too imo, naturally. He didn't do anything magic, bit he also didn't get the ball in any kind of space at all game.

Can't think of any howlers in there. Sure he got done for holding on, but it was a gain line carry, the support needs to get there.

[p/d]

I think Curry is getting the shitty end of the stick for a couple of missed tackles, when he was actually one of the better players. Picking and dropping newbies when more seasoned starters misfired perhaps not the right message for SB to send out.

Yeah, I just read EP's rewatch opinions on Curry, and am now questioning of live-opinion. I'll need a rewatch of my own, I often change my mind when I get around to that.

I had hoped he would have been better, and his place should be under threat. I just don’t think we looked anymore coherent at the end when we had 7 Sarries and 5 Leicester players on the park.

[p/d]

OHC too imo, naturally. He didn't do anything magic, bit he also didn't get the ball in any kind of space at all game.

Can't think of any howlers in there. Sure he got done for holding on, but it was a gain line carry, the support needs to get there.

I think the bigger picture is how we can minimise Steward’s weaknesses with who we pick. Perhaps an Arundell or Watson on the wing gives greater protection in defence, without being detrimental to our attack. This is nothing against OHC

[Mellsblue]

OHC too imo, naturally. He didn't do anything magic, bit he also didn't get the ball in any kind of space at all game.

Can't think of any howlers in there. Sure he got done for holding on, but it was a gain line carry, the support needs to get there.

I think the bigger picture is how we can minimise Steward’s weaknesses with who we pick. Perhaps an Arundell or Watson on the wing gives greater protection in defence, without being detrimental to our attack. This is nothing against OHC

What do you perceive Steward’s weaknesses to be?

[Margin_Walker]

OHC too imo, naturally. He didn't do anything magic, bit he also didn't get the ball in any kind of space at all game.

Can't think of any howlers in there. Sure he got done for holding on, but it was a gain line carry, the support needs to get there.

I think the bigger picture is how we can minimise Steward’s weaknesses with who we pick. Perhaps an Arundell or Watson on the wing gives greater protection in defence, without being detrimental to our attack. This is nothing against OHC

Sure. Clearly other options on the wing.

Just wasn't a rabbit in headlights performance with glaring errors imo. Just one of those games where the opportunities don't fall your way.

Edit - On a more general point, he tracked into midfield a lot as he does for LI, but they weren't tending to find him. That's where he tends to be very effective.

[francoisfou]

I’d like Borthwick to bring in Jack Lewis at 7. He’s been outstanding for Toulouse recently and I’m convinced would have had a heavy influence on yesterday’s game at HQ. Will Dan Kelly be fit for selection, and if so, will Borthwick have the balls to sack Farrell? He’s going to be dropped one of these days, so why not now ?

[stepsider]

Probably best to forget about the 6N now and focus on the World Cup.

Oh, wait a minute...

[Mikey Brown]

How is that different for Jack?

I really like Ludlam but not sure I’m particularly keen to see him at 8, though I know he’s been playing there a bit for Northampton. I thought he was great today though and really enjoyed his energy. I think he works very well in the 6 role alongside 2 specialists.

Gutted for Dombrandt with that biffed restart and the failed tackle on VDM (though I’m not sure a tackle round the legs would have brought him down without getting over the line) they were big, glaring errors. I feel like there’s been quite a lot of unfair dismissal of his other contributions and not catching that Ludlam offload to the face.

I feel like I’d rather see if he can settle there and we continue making gains off his attacking work than play a variety of flankers at 8 for the rest of the 6 nations, then just revert to Billy for the World Cup anyway.

He made a few garish handling errors, being turned over three times, and his tackle count was low. Not a good day at the office, in fairness not alone. Fascinating to see what SB does next- probably worth sticking with the same pack, but the midfield defence ffs....

Fair enough. Not seen any of those stats. My sense was Scotland didn’t actually have that much possession aside from the start and end of the game so no idea how English tackle stats would compare.

Midfield defence, yeah, just didn’t look one the same page. Hard to judge without knowing what communication is (or isn’t happening) as to why there was such a huge gap between the centres so often. Marchant worried about the wide pass and Faz worried about Smith?

Obviously my instinct is to blame Farrell because normally awful and Marchant is normally great, but definitely not Joe’s best game.

[Mellsblue]

Watching it back now and, yep, feck continuity whilst bedding in new systems… dump Farrell asap

[p/d]

OHC too imo, naturally. He didn't do anything magic, bit he also didn't get the ball in any kind of space at all game.

Can't think of any howlers in there. Sure he got done for holding on, but it was a gain line carry, the support needs to get there.

I think the bigger picture is how we can minimise Steward’s weaknesses with who we pick. Perhaps an Arundell or Watson on the wing gives greater protection in defence, without being detrimental to our attack. This is nothing against OHC

What do you perceive Steward’s weaknesses to be?

Poorly phrased Mells. His last line defence looks vulnerable, but Scotland did a good job at pinning him back. Perhaps I should have said maximise his strength. He is brilliant when coming into the line. Strength and pace, keeping defences honest. Fantastic off loading game and good link player….. perhaps just need Slade at 13 so he can drop back into the slot to cover. Great last ditch defender and he’ll of a boot

[p/d]

Preemptive text is wank

[Banquo]

In fairness to Steward, most international wings should be able to beat anyone 1-1 in space and running at full tilt. Not sure what Dombrandts excuse was though as Duhan was on his third side step at that point, nor the rubbish kick chasers.

I'm surprised no-one has commented on how much, and how badly we kicked. And the continuation of a trend started under Eddie of kicking it a lot in attack when just outside their 22- JVP, Youngs, Faz all had egregious examples of such, and maybe even Smith. That said, Scotland kicked even more - a massive 42 times, and they only had 43% possession. (we kicked 37 times; by comparison, Ireland kicked 29 times, wales 25).

[Mellsblue]

I think the bigger picture is how we can minimise Steward’s weaknesses with who we pick. Perhaps an Arundell or Watson on the wing gives greater protection in defence, without being detrimental to our attack. This is nothing against OHC

What do you perceive Steward’s weaknesses to be?

Poorly phrased Mells. His last line defence looks vulnerable, but Scotland did a good job at pinning him back. Perhaps I should have said maximise his strength. He is brilliant when coming into the line. Strength and pace, keeping defences honest. Fantastic off loading game and good link player….. perhaps just need Slade at 13 so he can drop back into the slot to cover. Great last ditch defender and he’ll of a boot

Yep, his last line d is poor which is a worry for a fullback, even one who is 6’8’’. I don’t think we get him in the line enough and we should make more of it, even if he’s more bludgeon than rapier. I’d say his hands are average but improving.

[p/d]

Didn’t realise he was as tall as OHC

[Banquo]

Didn’t realise he was as tall as OHC

no one is.

Not sure why OHC is attracting stick- frankly Malins was way worse in defence. He was turned over once, but made a few yards. Since the backs inside him were hardly making dents or great decisions, not really sure what was expected.

[p/d]

I'm surprised no-one has commented on how much, and how badly we kicked. And the continuation of a trend started under Eddie of kicking it a lot in attack when just outside their 22- JVP, Youngs, Faz all had egregious examples of such, and maybe even Smith. That said, Scotland kicked even more - a massive 44 times, and they only had 43% possession.

I’m sure I mentioned on a few occasions…. And was it Farrell, yet again, who kicked straight over the dead ball line when we had a penalty advantage?

[p/d]

Didn’t realise he was as tall as OHC

no one is.

Not even back row turned lock Chessum

[Banquo]

Didn’t realise he was as tall as OHC

no one is.

Not even back row turned lock Chessum

Backum or lockum

[p/d]

no one is.

Not even back row turned lock Chessum

Backum or lockum

LockAm, surely

[Banquo]

Not even back row turned lock Chessum

Backum or lockum

LockAm, surely

yes...ludLAM FFFFFFFSSSSSSSSSSSS

and not Launchberry while we are at it.