Squad for Wales

[SouthFalcon87]

I know this isn’t exactly a pro Owen Farrell forum.

But can anyone who still supports his selection tell me his last good game for England? I’d honestly say Australia 2019.

Guarantee the player ratings this evening will say something like “an unusual off day from the tee” when he has been shite at kicking for the last year.

[Crash Hamster]

33%
In for his excellent goal-kicking
#SLIceman

[TheNomad]

I know this isn’t exactly a pro Owen Farrell forum.

But can anyone who still supports his selection tell me his last good game for England? I’d honestly say Australia 2019.

Guarantee the player ratings this evening will say something like “an unusual off day from the tee” when he has been shite at kicking for the last year.

I just can’t see the merit in the guy. Did OK defensively and at the breakdown, but as a 10? I just don’t see it

[Mellsblue]

This has made me angrier than some of Eddie's nonsense.

True, sadly. Even Eddie would surely have been ashamed of those tactics.

Look, mate. The games changed but I’m ahead of the curve despite us being shit. It’s such a cunning master plan that it’ll take a pre-world cup camp with me to work. You’ll have to read my book to truly understand. £20 at your local Waterstones. Tell them I sent ya.

[Stom]

All the good things Farrell brings are the exact things you want your bloody flanker to bring to the table, not your 10. FFS.

If England had Smith at 10 and a 10 year old at 13, we'd have been out of sight by half time. This Wales team are awful.

Honestly, as bad as Farrell was, he doesn't get the outstandingly bad gold star for today, that has to go to Slade for his kicking away of pretty fantastic ball twice, the second of which was one of the worst I've seen.

OK, breathe...

Positives:

That starting pack is beautifully balanced, and that's the first time we've been able to say that for a long time. Really nice. Shame about what's outside it.

JvP was...well, he didn't do much. He made a few ropey decisions, but nah, that wasn't good enough.
Farrell was Farrell. He made 2 nice inside passes - sure, when given a set play and a shorter pass, he can make it happen perfectly - but his kicking was awful.
Watson was very good. A step up on the other wingers today.
Malins is excellent at finding little gaps to make yards. Not convinced of him going backward, though. Strange Wales didn't put LRZ on his side...that was a missed opportunity.
Lawrence was good in all. The turnover on our line was very good.
Slade was abysmal.
Steward was...fine.

The forward subs demonstrably made us worse, and the backs subs had a combined 0.12 seconds. Abysmal management.

Borthwick OUT

[fivepointer]

A win isnt to be sniffed but goodness we made hard work of that.

Wales were abject. They were there for the taking. We kept them in the game by treating them as dangerous opponents.

Our 3 tries showed what we could with some quick ball, decisive runners and crisp movement of the ball. Lets just have a lot more of it.

[Mikey Brown]

That was so fucking boring.

The subs with 15 seconds really pissed me off. I get that it was a tight game but I’d rather just not put them on at all than do that.

I know it’s early for this new setup, but I’m struggling to care.

[FKAS]

The late subs were frustrating both in when they were introduced to the game and then what they did with their chance. Smith runs down a blind alley and Arundell runs into touch.

Even I shouted "stop fucking kicking" at the TV this week. Malins kicking the grubber through with an easy three on two should have brought the shepherds crook out there and then.

[Mikey Brown]

The late subs were frustrating both in when they were introduced to the game and then what they did with their chance. Smith runs down a blind alley and Arundell runs into touch.

Getting 15 seconds to make a case is just idiotic, the game was won so of course they were both (over) eager to do something. Must have been painful watching that shit.

[Mellsblue]

Borthwick OUT

We were shite but this is way ott. We’re three games into a full rebuild. At least you could see the skeleton of plan which is a step up on the last two years. What did you want him to achieve in 5 weeks?

[fivepointer]

The late subs were frustrating both in when they were introduced to the game and then what they did with their chance. Smith runs down a blind alley and Arundell runs into touch.

Getting 15 seconds to make a case is just idiotic, the game was won so of course they were both (over) eager to do something. Must have been painful watching that shit.

Late, pointless substitutions were a hallmark of the Jones era and one i thoroughly detested. I really hope Borthwick is not going to make a habit of it.

[Stom]

Borthwick OUT

We were shite but this is way ott. We’re three games into a full rebuild. At least you could see the skeleton of plan which is a step up on the last two years. What did you want him to achieve in 5 weeks?

Kinda hard to put tongue in cheek on a message board, but I thought you'd have picked up on it, Mells, tut.

Of course I don't really want Borthwick out. I'd much rather someone just told Owen Farrell he had a previously undiagnosed condition that prevented him from playing rugby anymore. As I said elsewhere, easily 80% of our problems gone in one fell swoop.

But the tactics came from management, and that was appalling,

[16th man]

First vote for pardoning Puja from doing a MBM.

Truly abysmal game of "rugby". Italy must have watched that after the performance they put in against Ireland and have been bemused about how they lost to us last time out

[rjjb]

Do bench players who remain there get a match fee?

[Galfon]

At least with SB there will be some continuity, hopefully not more-of-same tactics though. You would expect young'ns Chessum (22), JVP (21) Lawrence (23), Steward (22) to start v Fra,.this should take some pressure off the established/erstwhile fixtures of the team.
Relative newbies Dombrandt, Malins, Willis, Ludlam also.
Anything he can get from the last 2 matches will be a bonus now...no pun intended, he was probs. chasing the 4th try bp today with those last minute subs.

[Mellsblue]

Borthwick OUT

We were shite but this is way ott. We’re three games into a full rebuild. At least you could see the skeleton of plan which is a step up on the last two years. What did you want him to achieve in 5 weeks?

Kinda hard to put tongue in cheek on a message board, but I thought you'd have picked up on it, Mells, tut.

Of course I don't really want Borthwick out. I'd much rather someone just told Owen Farrell he had a previously undiagnosed condition that prevented him from playing rugby anymore. As I said elsewhere, easily 80% of our problems gone in one fell swoop.

But the tactics came from management, and that was appalling,

As a man who has routinely needs a tongue in cheek emoji I apologise profusely.

[Danno]

Listening to Slack Bradford is so refreshing after the last 4 years

Like milk.

[16th man]

JVP looks like an international 9 when playing his own game. Playing todays "game plan" we may as well have called up Wigglesworth.

Subbing Genge on 55 when he'd been possible our most effective player, an had gotten top of his opposite number was just blind to what was actually happening on the pitch.

I know we have injuries but what is Cole doing in the squad, let alone on the pitch, aside from being a comfort blanket for Borthwick?

Farrell. pffffffffffffffffffff.

From the glimpses of when he had the ball, Watson reminded us of what a world class winger can do, as opposed to inexperienced fast lads. A good coach would have had us in the position of having some options there. Today savagely laid bare the results of Eddie's fucking around with our outside backs selections.

[16th man]

he was probs. chasing the 4th try bp today with those last minute subs.

If he was, then bearing in mind they came on with us having a scrum put in, it would have been nice to see them run a coherent set move/

[Galfon]

he was probs. chasing the 4th try bp today with those last minute subs.

If he was, then bearing in mind they came on with us having a scrum put in, it would have been nice to see them run a coherent set move/

They appeared set for something (ahem) clever, but Smith had a wee brain fart and ran into traffic., and they unusually, panicked it seemed.

[Oakboy]

Just assume you are a SH rugby spectator with a good knowledge of the game but you have never seen England play before (i.e. no preconceptions).

How many marks out of 10 would you give Farrell for that performance?

[Mikey Brown]

JVP looks like an international 9 when playing his own game. Playing todays "game plan" we may as well have called up Wigglesworth.

Subbing Genge on 55 when he'd been possible our most effective player, an had gotten top of his opposite number was just blind to what was actually happening on the pitch.

I know we have injuries but what is Cole doing in the squad, let alone on the pitch, aside from being a comfort blanket for Borthwick?

Yeah this pre-planned change, regardless of what is going on, is so irritating. Mako managed one good bosh on a carry that still probably made 0 metres. Cole won a scrum a couple of weeks back. That’s all I can really think of other than sucking all the pace out of our play.

Combining this with the 3 backs on the bench just being considered Hail Mary options. It somehow reinforces that they’re not really trusted, at the same time as acknowledging Farrell and co are pretty useless in terms of conjuring up a score. I might just stick with the glory of supporting Scotland for now.

[jngf]

Thoughts:

Firstly hats off to Wales for running us so close given the circumstances and Gatland’s idiosyncratic selection policy ( he really needed to bring on a fetcher! )

Imo in Ludlam, Willis and Dombrandt we’ve (finally!) found a balanced back row which looks like it can pick up where the Holy Trinity left off.

Time for Farrell to be used as a finisher rather than a starter. Lawes best reverting to lock cover rather than backrow cover - use Simmonds/Earl for that as a point of difference.

Also think we need more gas then Malins and Slade offer in their respective positions.

[Spiffy]

Borthwick OUT

We were shite but this is way ott. We’re three games into a full rebuild. At least you could see the skeleton of plan which is a step up on the last two years. What did you want him to achieve in 5 weeks?

It looks as though there is no central plan/tactics of how England wants to play the game. A scratch team of good, uncoached players would do just as well by being allowed to play what's in front of them.

[Spiffy]

Farrell gets a 5 in the Guardian's player ratings. The lowest in the squad, but still a tad generous.

EDIT : Planet Rugby gives him a 4.