Justice - US style

[Digby]

In other words the status quo is fine. Let's propose a few tweeks which sound like doing something but in effect do nothing.

It's not like the rich are dying so why worry about it?

Sadly - that seems pretty accurate, and always has

Very likely. But if they're not willing to utterly revise acceptance into the police, general training, gun training, guidelines for carrying and discharging a gun, and then review of officer actions by the department, and a society in which the police are expecting to encounter guns and violence then enacting a miserly $1 million per officer insurance that'd come with significant disadvantages in addition to any significant advantages seems like moving the deckchairs on the deck of the Titanic.

I'd also add to any review of the law in the US they could so with seriously reducing the number of political appointments that get certain voters so het up as to what they'll elect, whether it be judges, DAs, Sheriffs, coroners, it doesn't seem remotely healthy or sane. And they need to consider why they're spending so much to incarcerate so many prisoners, vast numbers, on low end drugs charges, many of whom serve longer terms than rapists and murderers.

[Which Tyler]

Or you didn't get my point.

And I know F all about you other than that you keep making personal attacks on me.

Nope, I got your point, and said "pretty accurate" whilst expressing a wish that the world were otherwise.
Of course, understanding that would require you to treat other posters as actual adults.

I'm glad you've acknowledged that you now know F all about me though, makes a nice change. You've always in the past claimed to know my age, race, religion and political views; IIRC you've yet to be right, but hey.

[UGagain]

Or you didn't get my point.

And I know F all about you other than that you keep making personal attacks on me.

Nope, I got your point, and said "pretty accurate" whilst expressing a wish that the world were otherwise.
Of course, understanding that would require you to treat other posters as actual adults.

I'm glad you've acknowledged that you now know F all about me though, makes a nice change. You've always in the past claimed to know my age, race, religion and political views; IIRC you've yet to be right, but hey.

Did you? I don't think so. I wasn't addressing the world.

I've never done any such thing. That's a flat out lie.

I'm so sick of this sort of bullshit.

Your shit was the catalyst for manufacturing a life ban for me just a short time ago.

I've been far too lenient on you. Piss off.

[Which Tyler]

Did you? I don't think so. I wasn't addressing the world.

I've never done any such thing. That's a flat out lie.

I'm so sick of this sort of bullshit.


Your shit was the catalyst for manufacturing a life ban for me just a short time ago.

I've been far too lenient on you. Piss off.

I'm sorry, enlighten me, what hypothetical world was your point designed for then?

Lies, lies lies

Can dish it out, but can't accept even being quoted back at yourself.

My shit? manufactured? Life-ban?

Awww, poor diddums. No thanks, I'll respond when and to whom I choose.

[Mikey Brown]

Oh my god. What am I even reading? Some days I find these threads kind of informative, but mostly it's this. How does an argument spring from that initial response?

[UGagain]

Did you? I don't think so. I wasn't addressing the world.

I've never done any such thing. That's a flat out lie.

I'm so sick of this sort of bullshit.


Your shit was the catalyst for manufacturing a life ban for me just a short time ago.

I've been far too lenient on you. Piss off.

I'm sorry, enlighten me, what hypothetical world was your point designed for then?

Lies, lies lies

Can dish it out, but can't accept even being quoted back at yourself.

My shit? manufactured? Life-ban?

Awww, poor diddums. No thanks, I'll respond when and to whom I choose.

Ffs give it a rest, will you?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[rowan]

Dashboard camera and helicopter footage of Tulsa, Oklahoma police killing 40-year-old Terence Crutcher contradict the police account of the shooting.

On Friday, September 16, Crutcher, a father of four, was heading home from music appreciation class at Tulsa Community College when his SUV broke down in the middle of 36th Street North and Lewis Avenue. Shortly after police arrived on the scene, Crutcher, who had no weapon on his person or in his vehicle, was shot and killed with his hands in the air. New York Daily News columnist Shaun King tweeted the dash cam video, which shows police killing Crutcher at the 17-second mark:

[WaspInWales]

I sense this will not end well.

In the sense that the police officer is likely to escape punishment.

Will probably be charged and taken to court but acquitted or found not guilty and no doubt will be able to ebay the gun used in the murder.

[rowan]

Looks like one of the cops just lost the plot and opened fire. Even the other officers appear shocked. I think he'd one of the two that suddenly detached from the original group and went around to the other side of the cop car. Anyway, end result, a 40-year-old father of four ended up dead on his way home from music class...

[WaspInWales]

Shame about the dash cam otherwise they could have planted a gun in the victims hand's and a few million tons of coke in the boot.

Maybe they can add some spicy audio considering much of the action was out of earshot?

[Coco]

This is tragic. Hopefully the officers were wearing body cams, as another video I have seen shows the gentleman possibly reaching into his front pocket or trying to open his door as the officers are approaching. (most likely to grab his license, registration, and insurance?) his hands were not up, but again the distance prevents a clear idea of what really happened. Hard to keep from forming solid opinions about it even though all the facts have not been released. I also wonder why his vehicle appears to have been stopped in the oncoming traffic lane, unattended and still running. Witnesses that reported the vehicle said the man appeared to be having a weird trip and was running around yelling "its gonna blow". Very bizarre tidbits of info. Condolences to his family, very sad.

[Digby]

If he was reaching for his licence and whatnot that's very likely in response to a police request, and if so then officers should know people will try to be helpful and reach for documentation. So either the police are stupid if they ask for documentation and then shoot someone who moves, or they're asking on purpose to give an excuse to shoot, and I wouldn't have much sympathy for them either way (though the training around these areas is clearly pitiful)

Have to hope we don't have yet another set of broken police cams. If we do it's about time they started charging the chief of police for sending officers out with faulty equipment.

[Coco]

If he was reaching for his licence and whatnot that's very likely in response to a police request, and if so then officers should know people will try to be helpful and reach for documentation. So either the police are stupid if they ask for documentation and then shoot someone who moves, or they're asking on purpose to give an excuse to shoot, and I wouldn't have much sympathy for them either way (though the training around these areas is clearly pitiful)

Have to hope we don't have yet another set of broken police cams. If we do it's about time they started charging the chief of police for sending officers out with faulty equipment.

Agree about the faulty cams, they all shiuld be wearing them imo.

A lot more puzzle pieces and/or rumors are coming out as the hours tick on. PCP, and him recently being released from prison are just 2 of them.

[stud muffin]

American football player Colin Kaepernick says he has received death threats over his refusal to stand for the national anthem, in protest against the plight of black people in the US.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37426031

This goes to show how messed up America is. (and Trump)

Colin Kaepernick protest: Trump tells NFL player to quit US

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37223377

Kaepernick is exercising his democratic right, yet get death threats and Trump telling him to find another country!

[kk67]

Thou shall not.......bomb a UN convoy and then try to blame the Russians.

[rowan]

Thou shall not.......bomb a UN convoy and then try to blame the Russians.

Like this, you mean? http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/09/17 ... civilians/

Probably better going to the 'Clinton' or 'Chlorine Gas Attack...' threads with that as it is already being discussed there.

[rowan]

Witnesses that reported the vehicle said the man appeared to be having a weird trip and was running around yelling "its gonna blow".

Firstly, that certainly wasn't apparent on the video, secondly, even if he had been he was probably just stressing out about his car engine, and thirdly, a white person would never have been shot for behaving like that.

[jared_7]

Witnesses that reported the vehicle said the man appeared to be having a weird trip and was running around yelling "its gonna blow".

Firstly, that certainly wasn't apparent on the video, secondly, even if he had been he was probably just stressing out about his car engine, and thirdly, a white person would never have been shot for behaving like that.

You can shoot a rifle at officers, then pull out a pistol and say "I've got something for you" and not get shot if you're white.
http://usuncut.com/news/armed-white-man ... -alive-nc/

These are blatantly just excuses being used, the fact there is so many different ones flying around to me indicates people trying to find justification for what happened. Even if one or some of them are true, the fact remains shooting should be a last resort, not a proactive first step because you are unsure of something. And the example above, and many others like it, show that the US police are quite capable of taking someone in without killing them, even if they are violent or carrying - if that person isn't black, of course.

[rowan]

Witnesses that reported the vehicle said the man appeared to be having a weird trip and was running around yelling "its gonna blow".

Firstly, that certainly wasn't apparent on the video, secondly, even if he had been he was probably just stressing out about his car engine, and thirdly, a white person would never have been shot for behaving like that.

You can shoot a rifle at officers, then pull out a pistol and say "I've got something for you" and not get shot if you're white.
http://usuncut.com/news/armed-white-man ... -alive-nc/

These are blatantly just excuses being used, the fact there is so many different ones flying around to me indicates people trying to find justification for what happened. Even if one or some of them are true, the fact remains shooting should be a last resort, not a proactive first step because you are unsure of something. And the example above, and many others like it, show that the US police are quite capable of taking someone in without killing them, even if they are violent or carrying - if that person isn't black, of course.

Absolutely. The more I see of these incidents, the more I am convinced that white cops do not look upon African-Americans as being human beings but rather some potentially dangerous species of animal.

[morepork]

Probably about time someone reminded them, once more, that they are public servants, not an armed militia/The A-Team.

[Digby]

The A-Team never shot anyone of course, not seriously, or at least not that I recall

[Coco]

Witnesses that reported the vehicle said the man appeared to be having a weird trip and was running around yelling "its gonna blow".

Firstly, that certainly wasn't apparent on the video, secondly, even if he had been he was probably just stressing out about his car engine, and thirdly, a white person would never have been shot for behaving like that.

You can shoot a rifle at officers, then pull out a pistol and say "I've got something for you" and not get shot if you're white.
http://usuncut.com/news/armed-white-man ... -alive-nc/

These are blatantly just excuses being used, the fact there is so many different ones flying around to me indicates people trying to find justification for what happened. Even if one or some of them are true, the fact remains shooting should be a last resort, not a proactive first step because you are unsure of something. And the example above, and many others like it, show that the US police are quite capable of taking someone in without killing them, even if they are violent or carrying - if that person isn't black, of course.

Absolutely. The more I see of these incidents, the more I am convinced that white cops do not look upon African-Americans as being human beings but rather some potentially dangerous species of animal.

Agree with the itchy trigger finger of some officers, and and fyi - black cops have shot black, white, hispanic, and asian people as well, so have hispanuc, and asian cops so I think its more about the profession than the color of the officers skin in a lot of cases.. Not all, but a fair amount. I completely agree it should only be used as a last resort. With as many officers that were there youd think he could have been taken in alive. As usual, all the facts have not been presented to the public, and so all we can do is speculate what actually happened.

Regarding Colin K.. He is exercising his right. Nobody has to like it but his right to kneel or sit should be protected and supported.

[zer0]

Apparently this is how federal law-enforcement keeps track of guns in America.

Anytime a cop in any jurisdiction in America wants to connect a gun to its owner, the request for help ends up here, at the National Tracing Center, in a low, flat, boring building that belies its past as an IRS facility, just off state highway 9 in Martinsburg, West Virginia, in the eastern panhandle of the state, a town of some 17,000 people, a Walmart, a JCPenney, and various dollar stores sucking the life out of a quaint redbrick downtown. On any given day, agents here are running about 1,500 traces; they do about 370,000 a year.

“It's a shoestring budget,” says Charlie, who runs the center. “It's not 10,000 agents and a big sophisticated place. It's a bunch of friggin' boxes. All half-ass records. We have about 50 ATF [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives] employees. And all the rest are basically the ladies. The ladies that live in West Virginia—and they got a job. There's a huge amount of labor being put into looking through microfilm.”

I want to ask about the microfilm — microfilm? — but it's hard to get a word in. He's already gone three rounds on the whiteboard, scribbling, erasing, illustrating some of the finer points of gun tracing, of which there are many, in large part due to the limitations imposed upon this place. For example, no computer. The National Tracing Center is not allowed to have centralized computer data.

“That's the big no-no,” says Charlie.

That's been a federal law, thanks to the NRA, since 1986: No searchable database of America's gun owners. So people here have to use paper, sort through enormous stacks of forms and record books that gun stores are required to keep and to eventually turn over to the feds when requested. It's kind of like a library in the old days—but without the card catalog. They can use pictures of paper, like microfilm (they recently got the go-ahead to convert the microfilm to PDFs), as long as the pictures of paper are not searchable. You have to flip through and read. No searching by gun owner. No searching by name.

http://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal- ... -many-guns

[morepork]

Apparently this is how federal law-enforcement keeps track of guns in America.

Anytime a cop in any jurisdiction in America wants to connect a gun to its owner, the request for help ends up here, at the National Tracing Center, in a low, flat, boring building that belies its past as an IRS facility, just off state highway 9 in Martinsburg, West Virginia, in the eastern panhandle of the state, a town of some 17,000 people, a Walmart, a JCPenney, and various dollar stores sucking the life out of a quaint redbrick downtown. On any given day, agents here are running about 1,500 traces; they do about 370,000 a year.

“It's a shoestring budget,” says Charlie, who runs the center. “It's not 10,000 agents and a big sophisticated place. It's a bunch of friggin' boxes. All half-ass records. We have about 50 ATF [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives] employees. And all the rest are basically the ladies. The ladies that live in West Virginia—and they got a job. There's a huge amount of labor being put into looking through microfilm.”

I want to ask about the microfilm — microfilm? — but it's hard to get a word in. He's already gone three rounds on the whiteboard, scribbling, erasing, illustrating some of the finer points of gun tracing, of which there are many, in large part due to the limitations imposed upon this place. For example, no computer. The National Tracing Center is not allowed to have centralized computer data.

“That's the big no-no,” says Charlie.

That's been a federal law, thanks to the NRA, since 1986: No searchable database of America's gun owners. So people here have to use paper, sort through enormous stacks of forms and record books that gun stores are required to keep and to eventually turn over to the feds when requested. It's kind of like a library in the old days—but without the card catalog. They can use pictures of paper, like microfilm (they recently got the go-ahead to convert the microfilm to PDFs), as long as the pictures of paper are not searchable. You have to flip through and read. No searching by gun owner. No searching by name.

http://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal- ... -many-guns

Surivalist cracker klan-babies. Total fucktrumpets.

I particularly enjoyed this bit:

"In 1984, Form 4473 even showed up in a movie, Red Dawn. Soviet paratroopers invaded Colorado, and they went on a search for gun owners by getting their hands on a bunch of 4473s. “I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands,” was a popular NRA bumper sticker at the time and a variant was featured prominently in the movie."

[rowan]

Straight from the 'Only in America' files:

Los Angeles, CA – Exposing the double standard between police and civilians, the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office announced Wednesday that no criminal charges will be filed against the eight LAPD officers responsible for nearly killing an innocent woman and her daughter. Although the cops ambushed the unarmed women without warning and fired over 100 bullets without provocation, the district attorney justified the case of mistaken identity due to the fact that the officers involved were afraid and incompetent.

More here: http://countercurrentnews.com/2016/07/n ... -daughter/