23/24 Squad - confirmed

[jimKRFC]

Bristol confirm squad for next season:


SENIOR LEAVERS: Joe Joyce - Connacht (163 apps), Andy Uren – Benetton Treviso (157 apps), Ioan Lloyd - Scarlets (79 apps), Charles Piutau (79 apps), Sam Bedlow – Sale Sharks (62 apps), Sam Jeffries (61 apps), Semi Radradra - Lyon (52 apps), Henry Purdy (48 apps), John Hawkins (45 apps), Bryan Byrne – Newcastle Falcons (44 apps), Toby Fricker (32 apps), Jake Kerr (29 apps), Sam Lewis (9 apps), Will Porter - Harlequins (7 apps), Morgan Eames – CS Bourgoin (2 apps), Rhys Charalambous, Martin Mulhall.

ACADEMY LEAVERS: Jac Lloyd (3 apps), Tom Wilstead (2 apps), Pete Carter (2 apps), Aaron Thompson (1 app).

A squad of 41 players leaves me worried as we had around 20 players injured at one point... Does mean we'll see a lot of youngsters, but Bristol are weaker than this year. Bottom 3 beckons again....

[fivepointer]

That looks very thin. A few injuries and you are looking at inexperienced squad players or academy youngsters.

Doesnt look like a squad that will be good enough for top half of the league.

[jimKRFC]

That looks very thin. A few injuries and you are looking at inexperienced squad players or academy youngsters.

Doesnt look like a squad that will be good enough for top half of the league.

It's not - no way we'll be top 8.

Pat has said there's money spare but he can't spend it. Either he means they're at the cap or money is being held back was not clear. It does seem like there's no marquee player either - which is odd given the previous comments on marquee players. I'm hoping (probably in vain) that there will be on but it will be announced after the world cup.

Looking at the Bristol squad and then the Sarries one does you wonder how they are still getting all those players inside the cap...

[Mikey Brown]

I don’t see how both of those things could be true? Surely if there’s budget and no marquee they would have gotten somebody big or at least freed up Genge/Luatua’s cap?

Then again I don’t really trust much that Lam says.

[Puja]

I don’t see how both of those things could be true? Surely if there’s budget and no marquee they would have gotten somebody big or at least freed up Genge/Luatua’s cap?

Then again I don’t really trust much that Lam says.

Can't use Genge or Malins as marquee, as they came as signings from English clubs (unless the rules have changed). Is Luatua on that much anymore?

Puja

[FKAS]

Yeah Genge and Malins will have to be at the club a bit longer before they are eligible for marquee status.

I'd be shocked if Luatua isn't in the top 5 earners at the club. Still a quality player and I think signed a new deal recently which would have been the last one in his peak years so unless his agent was incompetent wouldn't have been cheap. There'd have been offers from France or Japan if Bristol were trying to low ball him.

I see Ioan Lloyd's brother has also been released which is a bit of a surprise. He was playing 10 for Wales under 20s in the 6N and would have been handy cheap cover worth developing.

[Which Tyler]

Marquee player is just the highest earning, eligible player, and they don't have to be assigned u til the end of the season.
I don't believe that any club doesn't have one.
For the sake of 2 minutes of admin, you give yourself room to manoeuvre.

What they usually mean is "we don't have a superstar we could only fit in by using the marquee slot" which is a very different thing.

[Margin_Walker]

What I'd say is if you're a club like Newcastle who have no intention of spending near the cap, not sure it would be worth the admin designating a marquee player.

Assume most clubs would have one assigned though for the reasons you point out.

[Which Tyler]

Not confirmed yet, but this is how Bath stand currently.
Negotiations ongoing with FLW and GJvV. No news yet on academy graduations, and it's still possible there's another signing who's not wanting to be announced ahead of the RWC (if so, probably Welsh).

I'm sure we've lost a couple we'd like to keep, and kept a couple we'd like to have off the books, as a result of contract lengths - looking rather light at 2 and 9; not sure if that's showing faith in Stewart and TCS or a gamble.

Bath 23-24 (provisional).jpg

If I had to guess, I'd say that Stewart, Richards, Staddon, Merigan; TCS, Worboys and Goss will probably graduate from the academy - I also wouldn't be surprised if it's not an announced thing.

[FKAS]

I'd be surprised if Bath didn't invest in another hooker. Three in the development squad does offer a fair bit of cover but if Dunn ends up in the England camp again they might be a bit short.

[FKAS]

Tigers squad as it stands for next season;

LH - Cronin, Whitcombe, van Wyk, Richardson
Hooker - Montoya, Dolly, Clare, Vanes, Theobold-Thomas
Tighthead - Cole, Heyes, Hurd, Hoyt
Lock - Wells, Martin, O Chessum, Henderson, L Chessum, T Manz, Carmichael
BS - Liebenburg, Hatherall, Carnduff, J Manz
OS - Reffell, Ilione
8 - Weise, Cracknell, Koroiyadi
9. JVP, Youngs, Whiteley, Edwards
10. Pollard, Atkinson, Walsh, Meredith
Centre - Kelly, Porter, Scott, Cokanasiga, Woodward, Cusick
Wing - Hassell-Collins, Bassett, Potter, Simmonds, Browning
FB - Steward, Brown, Shillcock

Senior squad
Development squad

There's a few more in the development squad but I've included the ones that have played for the senior team so far.

Rumoured in - Wilkinson (flyhalf from Sale), Kata (wing/centre from Exeter). Watson wasn't announced among the leavers so his future isn't known yet. If Watson were to stay we'd probably be set for backs but as the likelihood is he won't then we'd need another option.

Another prop may arrive, Richardson covers both sides which helps and Hoyt might get more PRC time but any injuries around international windows could leave us a bit light at tighthead. There might be some scope for a project player in the backrow or a veteran lock who doesn't want much game time as well. Wells is currently the only lock over the age of 23.

[Banquo]

Tigers squad as it stands for next season;

LH - Cronin, Whitcombe, van Wyk, Richardson
Hooker - Montoya, Dolly, Clare, Vanes, Theobold-Thomas
Tighthead - Cole, Heyes, Hurd, Hoyt
Lock - Wells, Martin, O Chessum, Henderson, L Chessum, T Manz, Carmichael
BS - Liebenburg, Hatherall, Carnduff, J Manz
OS - Reffell, Ilione
8 - Weise, Cracknell, Koroiyadi
9. JVP, Youngs, Whiteley, Edwards
10. Pollard, Atkinson, Walsh, Meredith
Centre - Kelly, Porter, Scott, Cokanasiga, Woodward, Cusick
Wing - Hassell-Collins, Potter, Simmonds, Browning
FB - Steward, Brown

Senior squad
Development squad

There's a few more in the development squad but I've included the ones that have played for the senior team so far.

Rumoured in - Wilkinson (flyhalf from Sale), Kata (wing/centre from Exeter). Watson wasn't announced among the leavers so his future isn't known yet. If Watson were to stay we'd probably be set for backs but as the likelihood is he won't then we'd need another option.

Another prop may arrive, Richardson covers both sides which helps and Hoyt might get more PRC time but any injuries around international windows could leave us a bit light at tighthead. There might be some scope for a project player in the backrow or a veteran lock who doesn't want much game time as well. Wells is currently the only lock over the age of 23.

Bassett?

[FKAS]

Bassett?

Thank you. Knew I was missing a winger.

[Puja]

Bassett?

Thank you. Knew I was missing a winger.

You're missing Shillcock as well.

Puja

[FKAS]

Bassett?

Thank you. Knew I was missing a winger.

You're missing Shillcock as well.

Puja

Note to self, don't do things from memory.

[jimKRFC]

Looking at the Sarries in's and out's I do wonder how they are holding on to so many 1st team players:

Out
Max Malins
Robin Hislop
Ruben de Haas
Jackson Wray
Duncan Taylor
Eduardo Bello
James Flynn
Ethan Lewis

In
Tom Willis
Tom West
Tom Parton
Gareth Simpson

I see 2, maybe 3, first team players going and some, not cheap, options joining

[Puja]

Looking at the Sarries in's and out's I do wonder how they are holding on to so many 1st team players:

Out
Max Malins
Robin Hislop
Ruben de Haas
Jackson Wray
Duncan Taylor
Eduardo Bello
James Flynn
Ethan Lewis

In
Tom Willis
Tom West
Tom Parton
Gareth Simpson

I see 2, maybe 3, first team players going and some, not cheap, options joining

I would say that looks reasonable. TWillis probably comes with a discount as his main ambition is to get into the England team - he needs to leave France for that (okay, so he's technically available now, but it's a higher hurdle to get over) and Saracens is a great place for that. West as well may not have been too expensive, especially if they got in at the early stages of his move to Leicester. Parton has fallen behind at Irish (and is a decent Prem pro rather than anything higher) and Simpson is a Prem squad option.

Compared to that, they're losing two club stalwarts, an international (and top Prem try-scorer) and a prop of decent quality, as well as a few other squad fillers. I have no problem believing that de Haas = Simpson, Parton = Bello+Flynn, West = Hislop+Wray, and Willis = Malins+Taylor, with Lewis's salary to make up any holes/contract improvements.

Puja

[Adam_P]

Saints ins and outs for next season. Like lots of clubs there are a lot more outs than ins. I feel like we need a loosehead signing, but haven't heard anything on the rumour mill.

I'm hopeful that Odendaal will add some much needed direct carrying to our backline, and think Langdon could turn out to be a very shrewd signing and should be a good contest with Robbie Smith.

IN

Curtis Langdon - Hooker
Temo Mayanavanua - Lock
Burger Odenaal - Centre
Tom Seabrook - Wing
Fin Smith - Fly Half
Trevor Davison - Prop
Henry Pollock* - Back Row
Archie McParland* - Scrum Half
Ewan Baker* - Full Back
Toby Cousins* - Centre
Will Glister* - Back Three
Reuben Logan* - Back Row


Out
Ehren Painter - Prop (Exeter)
Mikey Haywood - Hooker (Ret)
James Fish - Hooker (Bedford)
David Ribbans - Lock (Toulon)
Aaron Hinkley - Back Row
Josh Weru - Back Row
Dan Biggar - Fly Half (Toulon)
Matt Proctor - Centre
Courtnall Skosan - Wing
Tom Collins - Wing - London Irish
Brandon Nansen - Lock
Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi - Prop
Ethan Grayson - Centre
Frankie Sleightholme - Wing
Callum Burns - Hooker
Archie Kean - Centre
Joseph Gaffan - Flanker

[Banquo]

Saints ins and outs for next season. Like lots of clubs there are a lot more outs than ins. I feel like we need a loosehead signing, but haven't heard anything on the rumour mill.

I'm hopeful that Odendaal will add some much needed direct carrying to our backline, and think Langdon could turn out to be a very shrewd signing and should be a good contest with Robbie Smith.

IN

Curtis Langdon - Hooker
Temo Mayanavanua - Lock
Burger Odenaal - Centre
Tom Seabrook - Wing
Fin Smith - Fly Half
Trevor Davison - Prop
Henry Pollock* - Back Row
Archie McParland* - Scrum Half
Ewan Baker* - Full Back
Toby Cousins* - Centre
Will Glister* - Back Three
Reuben Logan* - Back Row


Out
Ehren Painter - Prop (Exeter)
Mikey Haywood - Hooker (Ret)
James Fish - Hooker (Bedford)
David Ribbans - Lock (Toulon)
Aaron Hinkley - Back Row
Josh Weru - Back Row
Dan Biggar - Fly Half (Toulon)
Matt Proctor - Centre
Courtnall Skosan - Wing
Tom Collins - Wing - London Irish
Brandon Nansen - Lock
Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi - Prop
Ethan Grayson - Centre
Frankie Sleightholme - Wing
Callum Burns - Hooker
Archie Kean - Centre
Joseph Gaffan - Flanker

That's quite a deficit I'd say.

[Puja]

Surprised there's no club for Matt Proctor. Thought he'd been very good for your lot while fit?

Puja

[Banquo]

Surprised there's no club for Matt Proctor. Thought he'd been very good for your lot while fit?

Puja

Back to enzid I think, his call I believe

[Adam_P]

Surprised there's no club for Matt Proctor. Thought he'd been very good for your lot while fit?

Puja

Rumour is he's going to Grenoble, but hasn't been announced yet. Based on a comment on one of his Instagram posts by Terrence Hepetema

[Banquo]

Surprised there's no club for Matt Proctor. Thought he'd been very good for your lot while fit?

Puja

Rumour is he's going to Grenoble, but hasn't been announced yet. Based on a comment on one of his Instagram posts by Terrence Hepetema

Ah fine

[Adam_P]

That's quite a deficit I'd say.

In terms of direct comparison, I see it something like this:

Langdon for Haywood - hard to call, but Haywood was at the end of his career and Langdon has good potential. Probably an improvement.

Mayanavanua for Ribbans - Ribbans obviously known quality, but I think the Fijian could be quality too. Probably a slight downgrade.

Odendaal for Proctor - similar in terms of quality, but in terms of the style we need I think this is a decent upgrade.

Seabrook for Collins - downgrade in my opinion.

Smith for Biggar - clear downgrade in terms of current capability and leadership, but good for the future.

Davison for Painter - bit of an upgrade

Then other leavers from the senior squad that are either replaced by senior academy additions (in brackets) or no one are:

Fish
Hinkley (Pollock - excellent potential)
Skosan (Cousins - another very bright prospect)
Nansen
Hobbs-Awoyemi

[Banquo]

That's quite a deficit I'd say.

In terms of direct comparison, I see it something like this:

Langdon for Haywood - hard to call, but Haywood was at the end of his career and Langdon has good potential. Probably an improvement.

Mayanavanua for Ribbans - Ribbans obviously known quality, but I think the Fijian could be quality too. Probably a slight downgrade.

Odendaal for Proctor - similar in terms of quality, but in terms of the style we need I think this is a decent upgrade.

Seabrook for Collins - downgrade in my opinion.

Smith for Biggar - clear downgrade in terms of current capability and leadership, but good for the future.

Davison for Painter - bit of an upgrade

Then other leavers from the senior squad that are either replaced by senior academy additions (in brackets) or no one are:

Fish
Hinkley (Pollock - excellent potential)
Skosan (Cousins - another very bright prospect)
Nansen
Hobbs-Awoyemi

so a downgrade then