Premiership Final

[Oakboy]

I suggest there is a difference when we have experienced a sustained period of mediocrity i.e. 4 years +. How many players aged 28 or more are irreplaceable currently? We have seen what happens when crucial positions like 9 and 12 are not part of a longer-term development plan. Sometimes, the only way to do that is to say player X is not good enough and should be left out. Picking the best young candidate and accepting that performance level might go backwards before it goes forwards may work. Long-term it might raise the whole team's ceiling. Maybe, we have reached the point where there is nothing to lose. Try a new way. If it means incentivising clubs to play more EQ youngsters, so be it.

where is this magical queue of players you want to pick? Clubs get a massive incentive to play EQPs, and its not numbers, its quality that's the issue. The game that started this thread is a case in point. I get your frustration, and I'm getting more and more angsty about the quality of player being produced.

Exactly. If we had a talented crop of uncapped players ready to take over from the current incumbents, fair enough, but we really don’t.

If we did do something crazy like that, I find it hard to believe you wouldn’t be baying for blood after a couple of defeats.

I think several of you are taking this too literally. What I am saying after the RWC is to take out the block of players that shape the core mentality of the side. So, no George, Mako, Billy V, Youngs, Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi, Slade, May, Watson, Daly etc. Some of those could be useful in an evolutionary transition according to orthodox thinking. However, they could also be a block in developing a new leadership core and in shaping a different approach.

I still have reservations about Smith at 10 but he does represent different thinking in terms of tactical action/reaction at most stages of the game.

My concern about bringing in Arundel, Freeman etc. is that they will be too influenced by old (bad) habits and taught more about restricting their talent than being free to express themselves.

I think a team built around a core group like Itoje, Curry, Willis x 2, Fisilau, Quirke, JVP, Smith x 2, Kelly, Lawrence, Arundel, Freeman, Malins, Steward could develop shape and character with fresh direction.

Obviously, our front row options are limited and our second rows are hardly queuing up.

[Banquo]

The fawning has been the media's default position for years. I blame SCW. His description of Farrell as being 4 players in 1 really sticks in my mind. Seldom have i heard anyone offer a sensible, balanced critique of Farrell, identifying both his strengths and weaknesses.
But i do think he's been very good for Saracens all season and had a strong game on Saturday.

He has always been a decent to very good club 10.