Cipriani returns to Wasps

[Banquo]

Cips would do well though to keep some of his thoughts to himself.

That or people should listen to him if they want him in the team, at least in part. He wasn't wrong when he told Wells his attack plan was rubbish and wouldn't work.

obviously I meant in the press, but make your 'insider' point anyway!

[Peat]

Give me the 28 year old. Give me the man who's made his mistakes and learned from them rather than having a healthy amount of them left to make. Give me the guy entering his peak years who'll still still be there come the next World Cup over the guy who's a long way from his peak and will still be a little short of it come the World Cup.

That's a general statement, not a Cips and Ford statement, but if the argument for Ford is age based, then that should count against him. In an ideal world, inconsistent 22 year olds would be injury cover, bench game-changers, and rotation for playing the minnows, while players in their peak years would be entrusted with starting.

See, I'd go with that if we were talking about a 28 year old with 40 caps and who was a significant presence in the international game. As it is, we're comparing someone who's had 3 caps over the last 2 years and someone who's had 19.

I would rather play the 22 year old, give him the experience to get his mistakes out of the way and have him be a 26 year old with 50 caps by the next RWC. I also appreciate Eddie's point of view raised today, which is that if Cipriani wants in, he can raise his game. He's capable of a lot more than he's showing and, like you said, he's been around, made his mistakes and should be in his prime. There no excuse of callow youth for him not showing his best and he can't be considered a development project.

But then, your mileage may vary.

Puja

I would rather play the guy who I think is going to help us win today because there is no guarantee that the investment of experience you make in a player will be worth it.

I would do so with one eye on where people should be for the next World Cup but the main aim is win today. That's because

a) I like winning
b) I believe development is far, far easier in a confident winning team and that most of the time, the strongest team will contain enough young players that development takes care of itself

In fairness, I don't know which of Cips and Ford is the best equipped to help us win today. We don't have much evidence of what Cips does at international level (because Lancaster fouled that one up). But there's an argument either way and if Cipriani has lost it, then I think he's unlucky and not getting what he deserves. And I'd probably say the same about Ford too if it went the other way to be fair.

Particularly when you bear in mind that generally there's space for 2 fly-halves in a 23, and currently one of them is Farrell, and I so don't see him helping. Particularly when his goal kicking boots are currently lost. Stick them both in. The only thing Farrell's got on them is goal kicking (currently not true), defence (does he have that over Cips actually? who cares, they're fly-halves) and superior club form... and if Cips was at Sarries and Farrell at Sale, you can be damn sure their positions in the England squad would reverse.

He's in better form than one of the players and a better player than the other. He deserves a place. And would find commanding one far easier at a better side that makes him look better, just like Farrell does.

[kk67]

Ford's just getting on with it. There's a bit of Backy about him.

[kk67]

Ford's just getting on with it. There's a bit of Neil about him.

[kk67]

I can't edit/delete my posts ad infinitum....??.
FFS, this new software is sh*t.

[Beasties]

I can't edit/delete my posts ad infinitum....??.
FFS, this new software is sh*t.

Try going onto the Wasps board if you wanna know what frustrating software's really like.

[twitchy]

I can't edit/delete my posts ad infinitum....??.
FFS, this new software is sh*t.

I just deleted one of my posts using that cross in the top right of the post window. Maybe there is a time limit on it?