Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:13 pm
Eerrghh.
I don’t like the Smith experiment or Steward on the wing. Youngs is surely a sentimental pick, unless Mitchell is injured, which has no place in pro sport, if it is. Martin should have been allowed to backup his performance from last week, assuming he’s not injured. Not sure of the thinking behind how Underhill has been handled over the last four months or his selection for this weekend.
Glad to see Arundell and Dan start, but surely the latter should be in his preferred position. The backs look like muddied thinking again.
Is Malins the only player not to feature in a match day squad?
Just had the thought with Underhill that maybe it's worth using this game to see if he's realistically worth having in future/6 nations squads?
Maybe I'm ill informed about his injuries, but I had kind of written the guy off at the top level. Given we have him in the squad for training purposes anyway it may make sense at this stage rather than use an EPS spot on him later?
I had completely forgotten Malins was in the squad.
I hope Walker has taken something from all this rather just a knock to his confidence. I've been really impressed with him for Quins. I can understand him being third choice, but it seemed like a strange choice to have a rookie like him brought in to sit behind an apprentice player like Dan.
I'd suggest it was a perfect opportunity to test Malins at FB - except that he appears to have already been written off by SB (not that I'm querying that). Just, why take him ahead of others?
Really fed up that Lawrence doesnt get a start. Thoroughly fed up Youngs does get a start. I'm pleased Dan gets to play but non use of Walker is hard to understand. Smith at FB again i simply dont get and how does Underhill get to start ahead of Ludlam? I'm assuming Martin isnt fit.
Some young quick legs in there, though surprised no Martin after last week, esp. with the RG forward set.
Suppose Soapy Bubble adhering to his win selection thing with Manu over Lawrence (just), but the latter needs a run to build his confidence if nowt else.
Galfon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:47 pm
Some young quick legs in there, though surprised no Martin after last week, esp. with the RG forward set.
Suppose Soapy Bubble adhering to his win selection thing with Manu over Lawrence (just), but the latter needs a run to build his confidence if nowt else.
Insouciant wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:23 pm
Weird looking team in terms of possible justifications for selections. It's definitely nice to see Underhill and Arundell get a run out, although given the half backs, will Arundell see the ball? Ludlam could be starting for Curry but that back row does look pretty good. Thought Lawrence might get a start. Steward probably deserved a rest and I'm guessing is there to support Smith with the high ball. Smith at 15 has potential, he does have something - but how you squeeze it into a team with our current captain starting (and 10) is not instantly obvious. Also, poor overlooked George Ford with his 'different role' of bench warmer.
After last week, I'm interested in the front row. How will that go & how will the replacements fit in? Stuart hasn't shone at all. Dan looks a decent prospect. It's one of the areas we seem to be lacking depth/talent. Feel a bit for Walker - it's a bit grim for him to get so little time but it must be part of the plan as Swiftly Bucephalus is a tactical genius (apparently).
He’ll be subbed at the precise moment Ford comes on (assuming that happens).
I imagine that anyone with a knock, who would play if it were the final, has been left behind. That's the only explanation for the lack of Martin, Mitchell, etc.
Insouciant wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:23 pm
Weird looking team in terms of possible justifications for selections. It's definitely nice to see Underhill and Arundell get a run out, although given the half backs, will Arundell see the ball? Ludlam could be starting for Curry but that back row does look pretty good. Thought Lawrence might get a start. Steward probably deserved a rest and I'm guessing is there to support Smith with the high ball. Smith at 15 has potential, he does have something - but how you squeeze it into a team with our current captain starting (and 10) is not instantly obvious. Also, poor overlooked George Ford with his 'different role' of bench warmer.
After last week, I'm interested in the front row. How will that go & how will the replacements fit in? Stuart hasn't shone at all. Dan looks a decent prospect. It's one of the areas we seem to be lacking depth/talent. Feel a bit for Walker - it's a bit grim for him to get so little time but it must be part of the plan as Swiftly Bucephalus is a tactical genius (apparently).
He’ll be subbed at the precise moment Ford comes on (assuming that happens).
Ford on for Arundell, Farrell to centre and Marchant to wing. Probably around the 60 min mark.
If he scores a try, that will be so in 3 WC's v. Arg - an unusual and praiseworthy feat
Its a shame that after such a stellar start, all his talent was boxed up and a lot sacrificed on the altar of box kicking and too much pre programmed thought (and why didn't someone spend a summer teaching him to pass better). Great career, even if he didn't excite us as much as imo his raw talent deserved.
If he scores a try, that will be so in 3 WC's v. Arg - an unusual and praiseworthy feat
Its a shame that after such a stellar start, all his talent was boxed up and a lot sacrificed on the altar of box kicking and too much pre programmed thought (and why didn't someone spend a summer teaching him to pass better). Great career, even if he didn't excite us as much as imo his raw talent deserved.
A case study of one of the primary problems in English rugby.
Replacements: George, Rodd, Cole, Ribbans, Ludlam, Care, Ford, Lawrence.
Well it's a bit of a change up.
He giveth and taketh away. That backline is just weird. Does anyone believe Smith is going to be starting at 15 at Quins?
Maybe he's sticking Steward opposite Carerras for some intensive training on defence/footwork.
With long tall Air Steward facing tiny Carreras you know that England's only ploy will be to kick the ball high to the right wing at every opportunity. Zzzzzzz ..... Tiz the crafty tactic of an analytical genius I tells yiz.
He giveth and taketh away. That backline is just weird. Does anyone believe Smith is going to be starting at 15 at Quins?
Maybe he's sticking Steward opposite Carerras for some intensive training on defence/footwork.
With long tall Air Steward facing tiny Carreras you know that England's only ploy will be to kick the ball high to the right wing at every opportunity. Zzzzzzz ..... Tiz the crafty tactic of an analytical genius I tells yiz.
If he scores a try, that will be so in 3 WC's v. Arg - an unusual and praiseworthy feat
Its a shame that after such a stellar start, all his talent was boxed up and a lot sacrificed on the altar of box kicking and too much pre programmed thought (and why didn't someone spend a summer teaching him to pass better). Great career, even if he didn't excite us as much as imo his raw talent deserved.
Considering how quickly Care's passing improved after playing with and working with Gommarsall, you have to think that...maybe it wasn't just the coaching.
Noting that Youngs' passing wasn't actually bad, per se, he just struggled to cope with certain situations and stresses. If he'd been allowed to just play off the cuff, maybe we'd have seen a better Youngs.
Stom wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:56 pm
Noting that Youngs' passing wasn't actually bad, per se, he just struggled to cope with certain situations and stresses. If he'd been allowed to just play off the cuff, maybe we'd have seen a better Youngs.
He was very slow left to right, generally having to pick the ball up and take a step or two. Coaching could have sorted that out, preferably earlier than later.
Stom wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:56 pm
Noting that Youngs' passing wasn't actually bad, per se, he just struggled to cope with certain situations and stresses. If he'd been allowed to just play off the cuff, maybe we'd have seen a better Youngs.
He was very slow left to right, generally having to pick the ball up and take a step or two. Coaching could have sorted that out, preferably earlier than later.
He actually had a beautiful, long, swift pass off both hands towards the end of his career, but it had about a 1 in 20 shot at going horribly wrong, like he was rolling a D20 for his passing and every 1 meant it hit the deck. But I remember being stunned by some of the passing I saw when I did the m-b-m posts and thinking, "He's vastly underappreciate... ah, there's the bad one."
Stom wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:56 pm
Noting that Youngs' passing wasn't actually bad, per se, he just struggled to cope with certain situations and stresses. If he'd been allowed to just play off the cuff, maybe we'd have seen a better Youngs.
He was very slow left to right, generally having to pick the ball up and take a step or two. Coaching could have sorted that out, preferably earlier than later.
He actually had a beautiful, long, swift pass off both hands towards the end of his career, but it had about a 1 in 20 shot at going horribly wrong, like he was rolling a D20 for his passing and every 1 meant it hit the deck. But I remember being stunned by some of the passing I saw when I did the m-b-m posts and thinking, "He's vastly underappreciate... ah, there's the bad one."
Puja
He improved again once Borthwick came back in at Tigers, having more platform and game plan helped him and then he had more confidence going into England camp.
His pick and step thing used to be devastating but as his pace has faded it's been less of use as he doesn't cause the same indecision in the opposition guard defence he used to.
Replacements: George, Rodd, Cole, Ribbans, Ludlam, Care, Ford, Lawrence.
Well it's a bit of a change up.
He giveth and taketh away. That backline is just weird. Does anyone believe Smith is going to be starting at 15 at Quins?
They might do for some games if they play Jarrod at 10
I'm not sure it really matters, Borthwick might like to drop a secondary playmaker in at 15 on occasion I don't think he's bothered about Smith becoming a 15 with any regularity. Freddie Burns was used similarly at Tigers being both the back up 10 and 15 as well as the option at 15 if Borthwick wanted to show a different style of attack later in the game.
He giveth and taketh away. That backline is just weird. Does anyone believe Smith is going to be starting at 15 at Quins?
They might do for some games if they play Jarrod at 10
I'm not sure it really matters, Borthwick might like to drop a secondary playmaker in at 15 on occasion I don't think he's bothered about Smith becoming a 15 with any regularity. Freddie Burns was used similarly at Tigers being both the back up 10 and 15 as well as the option at 15 if Borthwick wanted to show a different style of attack later in the game.
It probably matters to the player and their chances to the play the position to the best of their ability. Please stop comparing what happened at Leicester to what could happen for England: apples and oranges.
They might do for some games if they play Jarrod at 10
I'm not sure it really matters, Borthwick might like to drop a secondary playmaker in at 15 on occasion I don't think he's bothered about Smith becoming a 15 with any regularity. Freddie Burns was used similarly at Tigers being both the back up 10 and 15 as well as the option at 15 if Borthwick wanted to show a different style of attack later in the game.
It probably matters to the player and their chances to the play the position to the best of their ability. Please stop comparing what happened at Leicester to what could happen for England: apples and oranges.
Why? Same coach, similar tactics.
I suspect Smith prefers to be in the 23 pushing his name further into selection for the future as opposed to watching from the stands. The two guys ahead of him are unlikely to make the next world cup and Smith is banking international experience.
Stom wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:56 pm
Noting that Youngs' passing wasn't actually bad, per se, he just struggled to cope with certain situations and stresses. If he'd been allowed to just play off the cuff, maybe we'd have seen a better Youngs.
He was very slow left to right, generally having to pick the ball up and take a step or two. Coaching could have sorted that out, preferably earlier than later.
He actually had a beautiful, long, swift pass off both hands towards the end of his career, but it had about a 1 in 20 shot at going horribly wrong, like he was rolling a D20 for his passing and every 1 meant it hit the deck. But I remember being stunned by some of the passing I saw when I did the m-b-m posts and thinking, "He's vastly underappreciate... ah, there's the bad one."
Puja
He may have eventually delivered said pass l-r but not til he'd adjusted it and run a couple of steps. He also was too slow distributing too often at intl level and ended his career kicking away ball he used to run.
