New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread

[FKAS]

Freddie Steward went well over the 30 games limit the other year. The RFU made some fluff up about training load and brushed it under the carpet so he could tour in the summer.

It's a shame England are touring New Zealand and so need a full squad out there. An easier schedule could have seen us rest some of the bigger names and older heads to start developing greater depth.

[Puja]

Freddie Steward went well over the 30 games limit the other year. The RFU made some fluff up about training load and brushed it under the carpet so he could tour in the summer.

It's a shame England are touring New Zealand and so need a full squad out there. An easier schedule could have seen us rest some of the bigger names and older heads to start developing greater depth.

I thought he was only a couple of games over in the end?

Puja

[FKAS]

Freddie Steward went well over the 30 games limit the other year. The RFU made some fluff up about training load and brushed it under the carpet so he could tour in the summer.

It's a shame England are touring New Zealand and so need a full squad out there. An easier schedule could have seen us rest some of the bigger names and older heads to start developing greater depth.

I thought he was only a couple of games over in the end?

Puja

You're right, had to check that. He ended up playing 32 but England took him on tour knowing he'd be going over.

[Oakboy]

18 premiership games + 10/12 internationals takes a player there or close. I'd settle for a straight KO European competition with 16 teams i.e. 4 match maximum.

[16th man]

It's a shame England are touring New Zealand and so need a full squad out there. An easier schedule could have seen us rest some of the bigger names and older heads to start developing greater depth.

Are we assuming Marler will tour if asked?
If we have any intention to use Cole in the Autumn there's surely no way he can tour.

That would mean at least 2 props being blooded.

I'd also be tempted to give Maro the summer off regardless, just as a sensible precaution.

[Danno]

But has Borthwick generated enough goodwill in the last 2 matches to risk an absolute humping by leaving senior players at home, particularly at prop where the depth is bordering on being described as... height

[FKAS]

But has Borthwick generated enough goodwill in the last 2 matches to risk an absolute humping by leaving senior players at home, particularly at prop where the depth is bordering on being described as... height

There in lies the problem. The media will 100% big up the fact the Kiwi sides haven't been as dominant in Super Rugby as normal and that some big names aren't available. Unless things change I can see the hype in the press being at silly levels.

Can we really then risk not having Itoje, George, Chessum etc in the squad? Actually Cole and Marler are two we might get away with resting as the Kiwi's have a decent but not destructive scrum and in Obano and Heyes we have passable back ups who could do with more game time. Japan first up we could even rest Genge and Stuart go with the second and third choice props. Not sure who the third choice tighthead is currently, presumably VRR is considered not old to blood now and we'll go with Rodd.

[Puja]

But has Borthwick generated enough goodwill in the last 2 matches to risk an absolute humping by leaving senior players at home, particularly at prop where the depth is bordering on being described as... height

There in lies the problem. The media will 100% big up the fact the Kiwi sides haven't been as dominant in Super Rugby as normal and that some big names aren't available. Unless things change I can see the hype in the press being at silly levels.

Can we really then risk not having Itoje, George, Chessum etc in the squad? Actually Cole and Marler are two we might get away with resting as the Kiwi's have a decent but not destructive scrum and in Obano and Heyes we have passable back ups who could do with more game time. Japan first up we could even rest Genge and Stuart go with the second and third choice props. Not sure who the third choice tighthead is currently, presumably VRR is considered not old to blood now and we'll go with Rodd.

Given the Portugal game, Iosefa-Scott is the next cab off the rank, who would probably be good enough against the Japanese, but terrifying against the Kiwis.

Staunched Bloodletting has already said that he's taking a first choice side on tour, so I suspect it's somewhat moot. I'd imagine an agreement is reached like there was for Steward - Saracens get to use up all of the 30 games (so get to spread his remaining 6.5 full games equivalents out over their remaining 8-12 matches) and England have the exemption to take him on tour as an exception, with the understanding that he'll get another rest at the start of the season and possibly only play 2 of the AIs or something.

Puja

[Timbo]

Little bit ironic that the likes of Billy & Lawes have talked in the past about taking less money for a lighter schedule, but now the Prem has much fewer games and a 2 month break for non internationals they’re taking big bucks to play in France.

[Mellsblue]

Given the pension laws en France they will almost certainly play less matches per season over the length of time the French clubs are paying them.

[Puja]

Itoje rested for the Quins game. Good news for the poor sod.

Puja

[FKAS]

Now I think we've finally abandoned the Earl at 12 talk can we table the Mercer at 12 talk. He's looked pretty average in terms of physicality when carrying into contact tonight but the footwork on show has been outrageous. Certainly more than most of the backs have shown.

[Danno]

I smell a glassing in the air tonight

[TheNomad]

A few wingers put their hand up this weekend - meaning Sleightholme and Coka

If we focus on the backs (excluding 9 and 10), I'd say that there are a few players in that have sufficient credit in the bank i.e. Lawrence (12 or 13), Freeman (13 or 11/14), IFW (11/14), maybe Furbank (poor Steward, he looked good the other day)

But I don't think it's so far fetched to think that Freeman could move to the centres, and one of the above (or Murley, if fit) could add something.

For the record, I actually thought Slade played well towards the end of the 6Ns, and we would be losing his distribution by swapping him for Freeman, but it might be worth a try

[Oakboy]

A few wingers put their hand up this weekend - meaning Sleightholme and Coka

If we focus on the backs (excluding 9 and 10), I'd say that there are a few players in that have sufficient credit in the bank i.e. Lawrence (12 or 13), Freeman (13 or 11/14), IFW (11/14), maybe Furbank (poor Steward, he looked good the other day)

But I don't think it's so far fetched to think that Freeman could move to the centres, and one of the above (or Murley, if fit) could add something.

For the record, I actually thought Slade played well towards the end of the 6Ns, and we would be losing his distribution by swapping him for Freeman, but it might be worth a try

If you are looking at back three players capable of stepping up from club to country they have to get past Daly. He set the benchmark for Saracens yesterday. I saw nobody who was better on Saturday. I did not see Friday's games.

[Mellsblue]

Sean Maitland looked like a world beater on Saturday and he wasn’t even meant to start…
Not that I think that Daly should lose his spot in the 23 but I’d argue that his performance against Quins isn’t the evidence to use in his defence.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah I don't really get what that means. I'm not denying Daly often looks great for Sarries, but it was one game at club level, playing a completely different role behind a very dominant pack. Obviously they do have to get past Daly though, as he is one of the incumbents.

It's frustrating that he spent most of (what should have been) his prime years as an England winger learning how to play fullback at international level, but now looks a very good fullback (at club level) who is lacking his old spark while playing on the wing again.

[TheNomad]

My other issue with Daly is that (and I hate to say this because he's a very talented player, but...) he's likely on his way down, and certainly will be by the next world cup.

If he was obviously superior to other players in his position, you could make an exception, but would we not be better off trying to blood and integrate some new talent?

There were times in the 6N when he looked pretty average. I'd be inclined to try some others

[Oakboy]

But, Coka, for example, has never got close to Daly at international level so why is comparing the two at club level not relevant? I think Daly's England days are close to their end but I have seen nothing to suggest that Coka is a candidate to take over - except at club level. He is nowhere near IFW and I don't think SB was far out with the back three players in his squad.

[FKAS]

Danny Care retires from international rugby.

"The past 12 months in this England team have been arguably my favourite, making memories that my family and I will cherish and remember forever."

[Mr Mwenda]

Good career that - nice he got the Indian summer at international level.

[Spiffy]

One bloke who impresses me every time I see him play is Rob duPreez of Sale. He is not flash but very consistent, does everything well, is pretty big, has adequate pace and a lot of rugby intelligence. He had one Bok cap in 2018, has been at Sale since 2019, so is he English qualified by dint of residency and time elapsed since last cap? Since Ford returned to Sale he has been playing mainly 13, but has masses of experience at FH. He is 30 now so will probably never have the chance. Would be interested to hear how posters rate this guy.

[FKAS]

His sole cap was as a sub for the Boks playing a one off game in the US Vs Wales. The Boks lost. Think it was a fairly young Boks side. Iirc all three brothers were called up at the same time though they didn't all play together.

He's a good club player. Got a bit of everything but lacks a stand out skill set to set him apart. Not dissimilar to Sam James also at Sale. Unlikely to trouble international selection and you can't change international affiliation based on residency. He's only be EQ now if he had English parentage or was born here.

[Puja]

But, Coka, for example, has never got close to Daly at international level so why is comparing the two at club level not relevant? I think Daly's England days are close to their end but I have seen nothing to suggest that Coka is a candidate to take over - except at club level. He is nowhere near IFW and I don't think SB was far out with the back three players in his squad.

Agreed. The commentary was lauding Cokanasiga to the rooftops, but he didn't seem to do anything that extraordinary for Bath - both his tries were walk-ins to finish off team moves and he was fine without being outstanding otherwise.

Plus, I don't think he suits the England defensive shape - he's not nimble enough to fit into FJones's role for a winger, nor do I think he's got the game intelligence.

One bloke who impresses me every time I see him play is Rob duPreez of Sale. He is not flash but very consistent, does everything well, is pretty big, has adequate pace and a lot of rugby intelligence. He had one Bok cap in 2018, has been at Sale since 2019, so is he English qualified by dint of residency and time elapsed since last cap? Since Ford returned to Sale he has been playing mainly 13, but has masses of experience at FH. He is 30 now so will probably never have the chance. Would be interested to hear how posters rate this guy.

As mentioned above, you can't switch nationality for anything but birth or parentage, but on quality alone I'd agree that he would've been worth a look at as a possible Slade alternative in the 13 channel. As you said, very consistent and skillful player.

Puja

[p/d]

Plus, I don't think he suits the England defensive shape - he's not nimble enough to fit into FJones's role for a winger, nor do I think he's got the game intelligence.
.

Puja

This. Like taking a pair of leg warmers on a summer holiday.