America

[Son of Mathonwy]

The Democrats' lawyers need to work out how much power this gives an unscrupulous President. Because if Trump wins, by God is he going to test his immunity to the limit. I mean can he not just order the military to do whatever he likes? Can he just have anyone he doesn't like sent to Guantanamo?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng- ... ity-ruling
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... y-decision

This is actually frightening. And I don't even live in the states.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Does ordering something whilst holding the office of President make it official? Or is it confined to the expected duties of a president, i.e. not organising an insurgency against his own country? Presumably, the lower courts will define that and then it too will be appealed. Except the election will probably stop proceedings forevermore. Until the next time, someone suggests Trump has abused his power.

The ideological split in SCOTUS is obvious 6-3, and the minority view is making it very clear that they aren't happy. I think it's clear that SCOTUS is giving Trump cover and aren't just interpreting the law in an unbiased manner.

Maybe Biden should exercise some official power and eject Trump from the ballot. After all, SCOTUS seems to think that's fine.

Nah, that's the beauty of the 6-3 bias. This only works for Republican presidents. If Biden tried it they'd find a way to argue that it wasn't official business . . . or whatever . . . after all they're just making up the law now.

It is starting to feel like the dictatorship is almost here.

[Son of Mathonwy]

The Democrats' lawyers need to work out how much power this gives an unscrupulous President. Because if Trump wins, by God is he going to test his immunity to the limit. I mean can he not just order the military to do whatever he likes? Can he just have anyone he doesn't like sent to Guantanamo?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng- ... ity-ruling
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... y-decision

This is actually frightening. And I don't even live in the states.

Thinking about it (and I'm sure Trump is thinking about it) there's now nothing to stop a president from taking direct payment (bribes to anyone else) in order to set policy or make deals, even to start or stop military action. He can (openly if he likes) take Putin's money, or the Saudi's, or Musk's or whoever's. US policy and military action will be on sale.

[Sandydragon]

The Democrats' lawyers need to work out how much power this gives an unscrupulous President. Because if Trump wins, by God is he going to test his immunity to the limit. I mean can he not just order the military to do whatever he likes? Can he just have anyone he doesn't like sent to Guantanamo?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng- ... ity-ruling
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... y-decision

This is actually frightening. And I don't even live in the states.

Thinking about it (and I'm sure Trump is thinking about it) there's now nothing to stop a president from taking direct payment (bribes to anyone else) in order to set policy or make deals, even to start or stop military action. He can (openly if he likes) take Putin's money, or the Saudi's, or Musk's or whoever's. US policy and military action will be on sale.

Yep. The difference between official actions and unofficial actions will be argued over ad nauseam. You could make a case that ANY decision made by a sitting president is official by the simple fact that they hold office at that point. If only Nixon had known that!

I suspect the lower courts will now spend months trying to work out what a President is 'supposed' to do and therefore that will be seen as the official acts. By the time they agree, and inevitably this will get pushed back to SCOTUS for a decision, it will be too late and Trump will probably kill the investigation.

[J Dory]

So would Biden be immune from prosecution if he was to say ... umm ... order the assassination of an American civilian seen as a threat to democracy? I mean, if he did it officially like, on behalf of upholding the constitution, which he has sworn to do as President.

[Sandydragon]

So would Biden be immune from prosecution if he was to say ... umm ... order the assassination of an American civilian seen as a threat to democracy? I mean, if he did it officially like, on behalf of upholding the constitution, which he has sworn to do as President.

The Republicans are leaving themselves open to that. It would be a stupid thing for Biden to so as I suspect it would result in widespread violence. But technically, maybe.

Depends on how the lower courts craft what's official and what isn't.

[Which Tyler]

I think, for anything that reaches the Supreme Court within the next 15 years or so (I don't think they've got anyone likely to croak anytime soon), the answer is "Republican presidents - everything is official, so long as they use White House stationery" "Democrat presidents - proving something to be official will require multiple precedents (including being an action taken by at least 1 previous Republican president)"

[Sandydragon]

I think, for anything that reaches the Supreme Court within the next 15 years or so (I don't think they've got anyone likely to croak anytime soon), the answer is "Republican presidents - everything is official, so long as they use White House stationery" "Democrat presidents - proving something to be official will require multiple precedents (including being an action taken by at least 1 previous Republican president)"

It will all be irrelevant if Trump decides that we can get away with dictatorship. If the Dems implode then I wonder what the chances are of the 2 term limit being overturned?

[Son of Mathonwy]

I think, for anything that reaches the Supreme Court within the next 15 years or so (I don't think they've got anyone likely to croak anytime soon), the answer is "Republican presidents - everything is official, so long as they use White House stationery" "Democrat presidents - proving something to be official will require multiple precedents (including being an action taken by at least 1 previous Republican president)"

It will all be irrelevant if Trump decides that we can get away with dictatorship. If the Dems implode then I wonder what the chances are of the 2 term limit being overturned?

If Trump were to win, it's really just about getting loyalists into important positions, especially the military. Trump is immune from prosecution, and he can pardon anyone who commits crimes on his orders. So he can do anything, provided he has willing henchmen. So he would have 4 years to set up the coup. Obviously the Supreme Court will provide him with legal cover. Actually overturning the two-term limit would require 3/4 of the States to agree (I think), so that might be difficult, but who knows what those legal wizards can come up with? Maybe a new, streamlined MAGA constitution?

Or would it be less trouble, at 82?, to hand power over to a descendant? With the voting rigged, Putin-style, that might prove to be simplest course.

[Sandydragon]

I think, for anything that reaches the Supreme Court within the next 15 years or so (I don't think they've got anyone likely to croak anytime soon), the answer is "Republican presidents - everything is official, so long as they use White House stationery" "Democrat presidents - proving something to be official will require multiple precedents (including being an action taken by at least 1 previous Republican president)"

It will all be irrelevant if Trump decides that we can get away with dictatorship. If the Dems implode then I wonder what the chances are of the 2 term limit being overturned?

If Trump were to win, it's really just about getting loyalists into important positions, especially the military. Trump is immune from prosecution, and he can pardon anyone who commits crimes on his orders. So he can do anything, provided he has willing henchmen. So he would have 4 years to set up the coup. Obviously the Supreme Court will provide him with legal cover. Actually overturning the two-term limit would require 3/4 of the States to agree (I think), so that might be difficult, but who knows what those legal wizards can come up with? Maybe a new, streamlined MAGA constitution?

Or would it be less trouble, at 82?, to hand power over to a descendant? With the voting rigged, Putin-style, that might prove to be simplest course.

Probably this. Someone who will build statues to the Orange Big Man and note launch any pesky investigations.

[Mikey Brown]

Have you come across "Project 2025" before? It's a dedicated plan of action for the first year of a Trump administration, written up by a bunch of libertarian/theocratic/fascist government nerds, about how various loopholes, obscure presidential powers, and bureaucratic rules can be leveraged to completely and irrevocably change how America works. Highlights include placing the Department of Justice under the direct control of the President, allowing the deployment of the American military on American soil to round up and deport immigrants, removing all legal protections against discrimination for protected characteristics, and reclassifying thousands of people in skills-based roles in government departments as "Political Appointments", then firing them all because of a change of administration, and replacing them with true believers, who have already been picked out, vetted, and pre-approved. So, the EPA will no longer talk about climate change, because it'll be run and staffed by climate deniers at the highest level, the Department of Education will no longer talk about evolution because it'll be run and staffed by Christian fundamentalists, and the FTC won't worry about antitrust and mergers because it'll be run and staffed by people who are doing very well out of oligarchy.

The worst part is that it's using every back alley in the levers of government, so none of it will require getting through Congress or winning votes or requiring funding - it can just be done by fiat, without anything other than the Presidency. It is insanely well prepared and thought out and planned and it's absolutely terrifying.

Puja

Maybe I just hadn't noticed it before but this project 2025 stuff seems to have really kicked up a gear, even just in the last few days. I'm seeing it everywhere now and it seems quite open. It'll be amazing if women can still even vote in a few years time.

[Puja]

Have you come across "Project 2025" before? It's a dedicated plan of action for the first year of a Trump administration, written up by a bunch of libertarian/theocratic/fascist government nerds, about how various loopholes, obscure presidential powers, and bureaucratic rules can be leveraged to completely and irrevocably change how America works. Highlights include placing the Department of Justice under the direct control of the President, allowing the deployment of the American military on American soil to round up and deport immigrants, removing all legal protections against discrimination for protected characteristics, and reclassifying thousands of people in skills-based roles in government departments as "Political Appointments", then firing them all because of a change of administration, and replacing them with true believers, who have already been picked out, vetted, and pre-approved. So, the EPA will no longer talk about climate change, because it'll be run and staffed by climate deniers at the highest level, the Department of Education will no longer talk about evolution because it'll be run and staffed by Christian fundamentalists, and the FTC won't worry about antitrust and mergers because it'll be run and staffed by people who are doing very well out of oligarchy.

The worst part is that it's using every back alley in the levers of government, so none of it will require getting through Congress or winning votes or requiring funding - it can just be done by fiat, without anything other than the Presidency. It is insanely well prepared and thought out and planned and it's absolutely terrifying.

Puja

Maybe I just hadn't noticed it before but this project 2025 stuff seems to have really kicked up a gear, even just in the last few days. I'm seeing it everywhere now and it seems quite open. It'll be amazing if women can still even vote in a few years time.

It's preparation for government, given their win in the election has just been signed and sealed .

Puja

[Which Tyler]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/con ... -111358368

Conservative-backed group is creating a list of federal workers it suspects could resist Trump plans

An outside group is quietly investigating scores of federal employees suspected of being hostile to the conservative policies promised by Republican Donald Trump

...

Tom Jones and his American Accountability Foundation are digging into the backgrounds, social media posts and commentary of key high-ranking government employees, starting with the Department of Homeland Security. They're relying in part on tips from his network of conservative contacts, including workers. In a move that alarms some, they're preparing to publish the findings online.

With a $100,000 grant from the Heritage Foundation, the goal is to post 100 names of government workers to a website this summer to show a potential new administration who might be standing in the way of a second-term Trump agenda — and ripe for scrutiny, reclassifications, reassignments or firings.

...

[Sandydragon]

Have you come across "Project 2025" before? It's a dedicated plan of action for the first year of a Trump administration, written up by a bunch of libertarian/theocratic/fascist government nerds, about how various loopholes, obscure presidential powers, and bureaucratic rules can be leveraged to completely and irrevocably change how America works. Highlights include placing the Department of Justice under the direct control of the President, allowing the deployment of the American military on American soil to round up and deport immigrants, removing all legal protections against discrimination for protected characteristics, and reclassifying thousands of people in skills-based roles in government departments as "Political Appointments", then firing them all because of a change of administration, and replacing them with true believers, who have already been picked out, vetted, and pre-approved. So, the EPA will no longer talk about climate change, because it'll be run and staffed by climate deniers at the highest level, the Department of Education will no longer talk about evolution because it'll be run and staffed by Christian fundamentalists, and the FTC won't worry about antitrust and mergers because it'll be run and staffed by people who are doing very well out of oligarchy.

The worst part is that it's using every back alley in the levers of government, so none of it will require getting through Congress or winning votes or requiring funding - it can just be done by fiat, without anything other than the Presidency. It is insanely well prepared and thought out and planned and it's absolutely terrifying.

Puja

Maybe I just hadn't noticed it before but this project 2025 stuff seems to have really kicked up a gear, even just in the last few days. I'm seeing it everywhere now and it seems quite open. It'll be amazing if women can still even vote in a few years time.

The Dems have to make a big thing out of this. Its one of the few cards they might have left, full on project fear of what a Trump presidency might mean.

[morepork]

Pretty soon it will be so that the church is the only safe haven for clandestine same-sex relationships.

[Mikey Brown]

Have you come across "Project 2025" before? It's a dedicated plan of action for the first year of a Trump administration, written up by a bunch of libertarian/theocratic/fascist government nerds, about how various loopholes, obscure presidential powers, and bureaucratic rules can be leveraged to completely and irrevocably change how America works. Highlights include placing the Department of Justice under the direct control of the President, allowing the deployment of the American military on American soil to round up and deport immigrants, removing all legal protections against discrimination for protected characteristics, and reclassifying thousands of people in skills-based roles in government departments as "Political Appointments", then firing them all because of a change of administration, and replacing them with true believers, who have already been picked out, vetted, and pre-approved. So, the EPA will no longer talk about climate change, because it'll be run and staffed by climate deniers at the highest level, the Department of Education will no longer talk about evolution because it'll be run and staffed by Christian fundamentalists, and the FTC won't worry about antitrust and mergers because it'll be run and staffed by people who are doing very well out of oligarchy.

The worst part is that it's using every back alley in the levers of government, so none of it will require getting through Congress or winning votes or requiring funding - it can just be done by fiat, without anything other than the Presidency. It is insanely well prepared and thought out and planned and it's absolutely terrifying.

Puja

Maybe I just hadn't noticed it before but this project 2025 stuff seems to have really kicked up a gear, even just in the last few days. I'm seeing it everywhere now and it seems quite open. It'll be amazing if women can still even vote in a few years time.

The Dems have to make a big thing out of this. Its one of the few cards they might have left, full on project fear of what a Trump presidency might mean.

True. That really looks like their only hope.

Project Fear is a pretty funny counter to Project Radical Christian Fundamentalism though. Fitting really.

[paddy no 11]

Polling has biden -9 points

The dems will jump ship

[Puja]

Polling has biden -9 points

The dems will jump ship

They won't. Biden holds enough sway in the DNC and will keep insisting that he's done a good job and is owed loyalty and that he beat Trump in 2020 so it'll happen again in 2024, and he'll keep going right the way to the end and fuck it up for everybody because he fails to see that it is utterly irrelevant if he is still competent, it is utterly irrelevant if he's done a good job, it is utterly irrelevant if he's underappreciated for what he's accomplished - the only thing that is relevant is that the perception has taken hold in the US populace that he is a doddering, senile old fool and there is literally nothing that can be done to dispel that from here.

What is most notable during this period is how incredibly quiet Trump and the Trumpettes have been. They don't want a change in the Democratic candidate, not one bit. The campaign must've confiscated the Orange Man's phone to stop him from tweeting, cause you know full well that he wants to be crowing and mocking and bullying right now, but they've somehow kept him quiet.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

Polling has biden -9 points

The dems will jump ship

They won't. Biden holds enough sway in the DNC and will keep insisting that he's done a good job and is owed loyalty and that he beat Trump in 2020 so it'll happen again in 2024, and he'll keep going right the way to the end and fuck it up for everybody because he fails to see that it is utterly irrelevant if he is still competent, it is utterly irrelevant if he's done a good job, it is utterly irrelevant if he's underappreciated for what he's accomplished - the only thing that is relevant is that the perception has taken hold in the US populace that he is a doddering, senile old fool and there is literally nothing that can be done to dispel that from here.

What is most notable during this period is how incredibly quiet Trump and the Trumpettes have been. They don't want a change in the Democratic candidate, not one bit. The campaign must've confiscated the Orange Man's phone to stop him from tweeting, cause you know full well that he wants to be crowing and mocking and bullying right now, but they've somehow kept him quiet.

Puja

With the huge caveat that I dont see the American election publicity, it does feel that the Republicans are trying not to provoke a change. None of the opinion poll suggest a candidate that would easily beat Trump, which is a concern, but minus 9 is a sizeable margin and needs radical action.

I als oread somewhere that there is a problem if they dump Biden then the war chest they have built up cant transfer to any other candidate bar Harris, who is less popular than Biden.

Sadly its all looking very ominous and everything seems to be going Trumps way at the moment.

[paddy no 11]

Polling has biden -9 points

The dems will jump ship

They won't. Biden holds enough sway in the DNC and will keep insisting that he's done a good job and is owed loyalty and that he beat Trump in 2020 so it'll happen again in 2024, and he'll keep going right the way to the end and fuck it up for everybody because he fails to see that it is utterly irrelevant if he is still competent, it is utterly irrelevant if he's done a good job, it is utterly irrelevant if he's underappreciated for what he's accomplished - the only thing that is relevant is that the perception has taken hold in the US populace that he is a doddering, senile old fool and there is literally nothing that can be done to dispel that from here.

What is most notable during this period is how incredibly quiet Trump and the Trumpettes have been. They don't want a change in the Democratic candidate, not one bit. The campaign must've confiscated the Orange Man's phone to stop him from tweeting, cause you know full well that he wants to be crowing and mocking and bullying right now, but they've somehow kept him quiet.

Puja

He needs to be +4 to beat the electoral college, democracy in the U.S. be toast unless they change

The decisions this week from the supreme court are going to give the dems a look into their apocalyptic future and pennies will be dropping everywhere

Apparently monies raised for biden can't be transferred...... which is a problem I suppose

[Puja]

Polling has biden -9 points

The dems will jump ship

They won't. Biden holds enough sway in the DNC and will keep insisting that he's done a good job and is owed loyalty and that he beat Trump in 2020 so it'll happen again in 2024, and he'll keep going right the way to the end and fuck it up for everybody because he fails to see that it is utterly irrelevant if he is still competent, it is utterly irrelevant if he's done a good job, it is utterly irrelevant if he's underappreciated for what he's accomplished - the only thing that is relevant is that the perception has taken hold in the US populace that he is a doddering, senile old fool and there is literally nothing that can be done to dispel that from here.

What is most notable during this period is how incredibly quiet Trump and the Trumpettes have been. They don't want a change in the Democratic candidate, not one bit. The campaign must've confiscated the Orange Man's phone to stop him from tweeting, cause you know full well that he wants to be crowing and mocking and bullying right now, but they've somehow kept him quiet.

Puja

He needs to be +4 to beat the electoral college, democracy in the U.S. be toast unless they change

The decisions this week from the supreme court are going to give the dems a look into their apocalyptic future and pennies will be dropping everywhere

Apparently monies raised for biden can't be transferred...... which is a problem I suppose

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/only-michel ... biden-2024

Polling coming out today that none of the other Dem names would do better than Biden against Trump (aside from the fantasy pick of Michelle Obama). It's bullshit, because the reason they're not polling well is because they've had no national exposure, no campaign, and half of America doesn't know who the likes of Gavin Newsom are so there's no name recognition (see also M.Obama polling ridiculously highly, despite her not wanting it and having few of the bona fides), but the fact that it's been released and publicised shows that Biden intends to fight on and the Dems won't resist because, "the numbers show no-one else would do better."

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

I just pray that Obama has seen sense and is having a word with him. Biden and his family have to cut their losses - he was President - there's no shame in standing down.

[Son of Mathonwy]

They won't. Biden holds enough sway in the DNC and will keep insisting that he's done a good job and is owed loyalty and that he beat Trump in 2020 so it'll happen again in 2024, and he'll keep going right the way to the end and fuck it up for everybody because he fails to see that it is utterly irrelevant if he is still competent, it is utterly irrelevant if he's done a good job, it is utterly irrelevant if he's underappreciated for what he's accomplished - the only thing that is relevant is that the perception has taken hold in the US populace that he is a doddering, senile old fool and there is literally nothing that can be done to dispel that from here.

What is most notable during this period is how incredibly quiet Trump and the Trumpettes have been. They don't want a change in the Democratic candidate, not one bit. The campaign must've confiscated the Orange Man's phone to stop him from tweeting, cause you know full well that he wants to be crowing and mocking and bullying right now, but they've somehow kept him quiet.

Puja

He needs to be +4 to beat the electoral college, democracy in the U.S. be toast unless they change

The decisions this week from the supreme court are going to give the dems a look into their apocalyptic future and pennies will be dropping everywhere

Apparently monies raised for biden can't be transferred...... which is a problem I suppose

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/only-michel ... biden-2024

Polling coming out today that none of the other Dem names would do better than Biden against Trump (aside from the fantasy pick of Michelle Obama). It's bullshit, because the reason they're not polling well is because they've had no national exposure, no campaign, and half of America doesn't know who the likes of Gavin Newsom are so there's no name recognition (see also M.Obama polling ridiculously highly, despite her not wanting it and having few of the bona fides), but the fact that it's been released and publicised shows that Biden intends to fight on and the Dems won't resist because, "the numbers show no-one else would do better."

Puja

Exactly. The page shows that other than Harris (and Obama), the alternative candidates are unknown to big chunks of the US population. They just need exposure.

(Shame Obama doesn't want to run though . . . she could always win it then stand down.)

[Mikey Brown]

Honestly the only honourable thing for Biden to do is arrange his own assassination and try to pin it on the Republicans.

Nobody stepping in at this stage is going to be able to do it with any credibility. He’s totally and utterly fucked it.

[paddy no 11]

Step forward Taylor swift