America

[Sandydragon]

Bidens pulled out! There’s still hope that Trump can be stopped at the ballot box!

[Banquo]

wow

[Coco]

Dems will have to find someone other than Kamala or Whitmer (again I predict Newsom).. Newsom is California's Gov, and he has turned our state in to a complete disaster. It will be interesting.

[Sandydragon]

Harris is formally endorsed by Biden.

[Coco]

Shes got no chance

[Coco]

I feel bad for the man, hes obviously been used this entire time. His fat rich donors withheld money to force him out, regardless of what his primary voters actually wanted and voted for.

Seems the rich donors were more of a threat to democracy than anyone else.

#muhdemocracy

[Puja]

I feel bad for the man, hes obviously been used this entire time. His fat rich donors withheld money to force him out, regardless of what his primary voters actually wanted and voted for.

Seems the rich donors were more of a threat to democracy than anyone else.

#muhdemocracy

I mean, the primary wasn't exactly an actual competition. No-one sensible stood against him, so the options were basically "or Biden."

You're not wrong on the influence money has on US politics though. Citizens United is a blight on your democracy.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

I feel bad for the man, hes obviously been used this entire time. His fat rich donors withheld money to force him out, regardless of what his primary voters actually wanted and voted for.

Seems the rich donors were more of a threat to democracy than anyone else.

#muhdemocracy

I mean, the primary wasn't exactly an actual competition. No-one sensible stood against him, so the options were basically "or Biden."

You're not wrong on the influence money has on US politics though. Citizens United is a blight on your democracy.

Puja

Biden wasn’t held to any challenge in the primaries. I get that’s the convention but it’s a crap convention when at least one sensible challenger can put a bit of scrutiny on a sitting president.

[Coco]

While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.

Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.

Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Fantastic news. Republicans are flailing around trying to find fault with this. No matter, it was just a belated sign of sanity in the Democratic party. Yeah, funding should have no role like this in politics, absolutely, let's cast it out of all US politics then. Till then, at least it's worked in a sensible way for once.

The early debate was a blessing in disguise.

[Mikey Brown]

While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.

Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.

Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.

I’m always interested which events prompt responses from you on here. You have a very different perspective to most. Of course there’s a divide between party and supporters, but that’s not a new thing or limited to the democrats is it?

Of course when confidence drops the money dries up. It’s a business after all.

Does this strengthen or weaken DT’s chances in your mind?

[J Dory]

While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.

Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.

Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.

Except in November there will be an election.

[morepork]

Thwarting democracy. Classic. Rich lister backers. Classic. Let’s see what the electoral college Vs popular vote throws up this cycle. Let’s also see immigration dominate the domestic narrative, ignoring an economy that needs to evolve and deal with the scientific dead end that populist focus is taking us down. Again. Fuck corporate welfare and a pox on it’s house.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.

Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.

Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.

Except in November there will be an election.

More than that, the rules say that the Convention decides. The delegates are only pledged if their candidate remains. As for "the D party" promoting a decent challenger, that just isn't how things are done. There was a challenger who wasn't some numpty but an actual sitting congressman who Biden defeated handily.

Anyway I think this is probably the right thing - the second best time to plant a tree being now. Biden might have won but it seemed pretty unlikely. I don't doubt that he can govern (right now) but he's lost the ability to campaign and campaigns still matter. And now anyone is welcome to stand and get crushed by the support for Harris.

[Sandydragon]

While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.

Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.

Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.

Except in November there will be an election.

More than that, the rules say that the Convention decides. The delegates are only pledged if their candidate remains. As for "the D party" promoting a decent challenger, that just isn't how things are done. There was a challenger who wasn't some numpty but an actual sitting congressman who Biden defeated handily.

Anyway I think this is probably the right thing - the second best time to plant a tree being now. Biden might have won but it seemed pretty unlikely. I don't doubt that he can govern (right now) but he's lost the ability to campaign and campaigns still matter. And now anyone is welcome to stand and get crushed by the support for Harris.

It's true that Biden did have competition, but none of the big beasts went against him. There was never the sense of jeopardy over who might win compared to his nomination 4 years previously. A sitting president is given an almost free ride in many ways, which has helped cause this problem.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Except in November there will be an election.

More than that, the rules say that the Convention decides. The delegates are only pledged if their candidate remains. As for "the D party" promoting a decent challenger, that just isn't how things are done. There was a challenger who wasn't some numpty but an actual sitting congressman who Biden defeated handily.

Anyway I think this is probably the right thing - the second best time to plant a tree being now. Biden might have won but it seemed pretty unlikely. I don't doubt that he can govern (right now) but he's lost the ability to campaign and campaigns still matter. And now anyone is welcome to stand and get crushed by the support for Harris.

It's true that Biden did have competition, but none of the big beasts went against him. There was never the sense of jeopardy over who might win compared to his nomination 4 years previously. A sitting president is given an almost free ride in many ways, which has helped cause this problem.

Exactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.

[Sandydragon]

More than that, the rules say that the Convention decides. The delegates are only pledged if their candidate remains. As for "the D party" promoting a decent challenger, that just isn't how things are done. There was a challenger who wasn't some numpty but an actual sitting congressman who Biden defeated handily.

Anyway I think this is probably the right thing - the second best time to plant a tree being now. Biden might have won but it seemed pretty unlikely. I don't doubt that he can govern (right now) but he's lost the ability to campaign and campaigns still matter. And now anyone is welcome to stand and get crushed by the support for Harris.

It's true that Biden did have competition, but none of the big beasts went against him. There was never the sense of jeopardy over who might win compared to his nomination 4 years previously. A sitting president is given an almost free ride in many ways, which has helped cause this problem.

Exactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.

As pointed out below, thank heavens for the early debate. I don't think the fact that Joe Biden was getting older and frailer is a huge shock to anyone and had to be factored in, but that debate was abysmal, followed up by the NATO conference. `hopefully, this hasn't been done too late.

[Puja]

It's true that Biden did have competition, but none of the big beasts went against him. There was never the sense of jeopardy over who might win compared to his nomination 4 years previously. A sitting president is given an almost free ride in many ways, which has helped cause this problem.

Exactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.

As pointed out below, thank heavens for the early debate. I don't think the fact that Joe Biden was getting older and frailer is a huge shock to anyone and had to be factored in, but that debate was abysmal, followed up by the NATO conference. `hopefully, this hasn't been done too late.

It's just possible that the timing was close to perfect (excluding it happening way before the primaries) - any sooner and there would've been ambitious Dems eyeing up a potential run and taking lumps out of each other which is the last thing that was needed. Kamala Harris is very far from the perfect candidate, but she comes with the benefit of the Biden warchest, is an excellent demographic to attack Trump's age, criminality, racism, and facilitation of abortion bans, and it's not like many of the other options are perfect either. This close to the convention, the sack of cats is going to end up uniting around her pretty quickly, and concentrate on fighting for the VP role instead of assisting Trump's attack lines.

Who would be the best VP for her? It's tempting to say "Old White Male", but I don't think that would reassure any of the racists or misogynists particularly anyway (and let's face it, they were probably Trump voters anyway) and gives the impression of her being given a supervisor. Maybe Warnock from Georgia to burnish the Christian credentials of the ticket (although I don't know if that would necessitate a Senate election in Georgia, which might not be a good idea rn).

Puja

[Coco]

While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.

Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.

Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.

I’m always interested which events prompt responses from you on here. You have a very different perspective to most. Of course there’s a divide between party and supporters, but that’s not a new thing or limited to the democrats is it?

Of course when confidence drops the money dries up. It’s a business after all.

Does this strengthen or weaken DT’s chances in your mind?

There are divisions in each party.

Im inclined to think it strengthens DTs chances, especially if Kamala gets the nomination... She is less liked than Biden. I guess we have to see how it plays out - an Open Convention? I dont see Pelosi, Schumer, or Obama endorsing her and the DNC is August 19th-22nd.

[Coco]

Thwarting democracy. Classic. Rich lister backers. Classic. Let’s see what the electoral college Vs popular vote throws up this cycle. Let’s also see immigration dominate the domestic narrative, ignoring an economy that needs to evolve and deal with the scientific dead end that populist focus is taking us down. Again. Fuck corporate welfare and a pox on it’s house.

Only 29 states have electors that are bound by popular vote.

[Mikey Brown]

Exactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.

As pointed out below, thank heavens for the early debate. I don't think the fact that Joe Biden was getting older and frailer is a huge shock to anyone and had to be factored in, but that debate was abysmal, followed up by the NATO conference. `hopefully, this hasn't been done too late.

It's just possible that the timing was close to perfect (excluding it happening way before the primaries) - any sooner and there would've been ambitious Dems eyeing up a potential run and taking lumps out of each other which is the last thing that was needed. Kamala Harris is very far from the perfect candidate, but she comes with the benefit of the Biden warchest, is an excellent demographic to attack Trump's age, criminality, racism, and facilitation of abortion bans, and it's not like many of the other options are perfect either. This close to the convention, the sack of cats is going to end up uniting around her pretty quickly, and concentrate on fighting for the VP role instead of assisting Trump's attack lines.

Who would be the best VP for her? It's tempting to say "Old White Male", but I don't think that would reassure any of the racists or misogynists particularly anyway (and let's face it, they were probably Trump voters anyway) and gives the impression of her being given a supervisor. Maybe Warnock from Georgia to burnish the Christian credentials of the ticket (although I don't know if that would necessitate a Senate election in Georgia, which might not be a good idea rn).

Puja

Just heard it mentioned that Obama can theoretically run as VP, and even become President again if Harris were to step down, which would be pretty funny though wildly unlikely. I'd hope it's likelier than Michelle at least, who for some reason people are still talking about as a serious candidate to run.

[Sandydragon]

Exactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.

As pointed out below, thank heavens for the early debate. I don't think the fact that Joe Biden was getting older and frailer is a huge shock to anyone and had to be factored in, but that debate was abysmal, followed up by the NATO conference. `hopefully, this hasn't been done too late.

It's just possible that the timing was close to perfect (excluding it happening way before the primaries) - any sooner and there would've been ambitious Dems eyeing up a potential run and taking lumps out of each other which is the last thing that was needed. Kamala Harris is very far from the perfect candidate, but she comes with the benefit of the Biden warchest, is an excellent demographic to attack Trump's age, criminality, racism, and facilitation of abortion bans, and it's not like many of the other options are perfect either. This close to the convention, the sack of cats is going to end up uniting around her pretty quickly, and concentrate on fighting for the VP role instead of assisting Trump's attack lines.

Who would be the best VP for her? It's tempting to say "Old White Male", but I don't think that would reassure any of the racists or misogynists particularly anyway (and let's face it, they were probably Trump voters anyway) and gives the impression of her being given a supervisor. Maybe Warnock from Georgia to burnish the Christian credentials of the ticket (although I don't know if that would necessitate a Senate election in Georgia, which might not be a good idea rn).

Puja

I think her VP will best be determined by any states in the balance. Winsome in California brings little ot the party realistically. Maybe someone from one of the mid west/northern swing states?

I do agree that this is the best of a bad job - too much time and the Dems would have gone into full bore civil war and that would be an unedifying sight. But ideally, this would have been sorted before the primaries, and this whole palava wouldn't be required. The Republicans will make a lot of hay out of the Democrats' perceived lack of respect for democracy.

The Michele Obama candidature is interesting. She has literally no experience at that level of government, but does have name recognition. Polling suggests that she would beat Trump, so it's not a surprise that her name continues to be floated. It would be an interesting twist.

[morepork]

Oh for the days when policy was robustly debated. Mondale was the last one to try when up against free Markey boy Reagan and got crushed under an avalanche of populist ideology. Now here we are. Terrified of the possibility of a woman running.

[Banquo]

Oh for the days when policy was robustly debated. Mondale was the last one to try when up against free Markey boy Reagan and got crushed under an avalanche of populist ideology. Now here we are. Terrified of the possibility of a woman running.

well except for Michelle and Tay Tay. Probably more of an indictment

[Puja]

The Michele Obama candidature is interesting. She has literally no experience at that level of government, but does have name recognition. Polling suggests that she would beat Trump, so it's not a surprise that her name continues to be floated. It would be an interesting twist.

The other week, I saw her name trending on twitter, wondered what it was and discovered a widespread conspiracy theory that she is trans, including AI photographs of her as teenage "Big Mikey" alongside a teenage Barack, analysis of her "manly features" (with comparisons to Melania and bonus racism), and dissections of pictures showing folds in her trousers that are "clearly a penis".

And you know, for a fact, that Trump would absolutely adopt that if she ran. That is 100%, perfectly, on brand for him.

I have absolutely no surprise that she has no interest in getting involved in politics.

Puja