WTF Southport?

[Son of Mathonwy]

I was pleased to read that the suspect has a Christian background. Not that that should make any difference of course - no one should face retribution other than the criminal - but it's funny that the mobs aren't breaking any church windows. Almost like they were just looking for an excuse.

[Donny osmond]

How weird is it that Irish republicans and Ulster loyalists are marching together in protest at .... mass immigration to Ireland???? I mean, quite apart from despairing at the usual misinformation handling around immigrants, this is Ireland. The Irish diaspora has been welcomed all over the world. Ireland is famous for emmigration, and here they, some of them are, protesting immigration?

[Which Tyler]

No weirder than (white) USA doing the same about immigrants

[Sandydragon]

Watched the news last night. Can't believe this shit is still going on. It's more WTF England & NI? now though.

Funny how the truth about the suspect has made zero difference to these thugs. Almost like they enjoy hurting people, throwing bricks and setting things on fire. Nice to hear them using that Sunak slogan, stop the boats. Well done Tories for making far-right issues mainstream.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_riots

I wonder how much contact Farage and Reform actually have with these rent-a-mob cunts. This is making me think of the riots in Germany in the early 30s (although much less violent and deadly). Music to Farage's ears. This is how he wants the next 5 years to go, then it's further into power (especially if the Tories continue to be Reform-lite).

I can sort of see why Starmer didn't call Farage out on this. He doesn't want to give him any more oxygen, make Farage officially part of it. Treat it as a crime, not politics. He's never going to win a political charisma battle with Farage, so don't go there.

There’s no proof either that Farage has any links to the EDL, which makes Starmer look a bit of a tit if she tries to insist there is. Why give Farage an easy opportunity to proclaim martyrdom again?

[Sandydragon]

I was pleased to read that the suspect has a Christian background. Not that that should make any difference of course - no one should face retribution other than the criminal - but it's funny that the mobs aren't breaking any church windows. Almost like they were just looking for an excuse.

The alleged perpetrator is neither an immigrant nor is he a Muslim. Makes no difference though. It’s an opportunity to make a point about immigration in the most repugnant way possible.

But worth remembering that most of these thugs don’t need a reason to riot. An opportunity to throw a few bricks at the police and do some looting is always welcome and the cause doesn’t matter that much.

[Mikey Brown]

This is the legacy of the conservatives. Austerity that amounted to fuck all good for most people, horrendous widening of wealth disparity and the empowerment of the far right.

[paddy no 11]

How weird is it that Irish republicans and Ulster loyalists are marching together in protest at .... mass immigration to Ireland???? I mean, quite apart from despairing at the usual misinformation handling around immigrants, this is Ireland. The Irish diaspora has been welcomed all over the world. Ireland is famous for emmigration, and here they, some of them are, protesting immigration?

There's pond life in every country. Plenty of American right wing money been sent to groups to stir shit up. Loads of English over here stirring aswell, outside my local library. For instance

[paddy no 11]

How weird is it that Irish republicans and Ulster loyalists are marching together in protest at .... mass immigration to Ireland???? I mean, quite apart from despairing at the usual misinformation handling around immigrants, this is Ireland. The Irish diaspora has been welcomed all over the world. Ireland is famous for emmigration, and here they, some of them are, protesting immigration?

Also they were hardly welcomed everywhere, cheap labour everywhere they went, often used as Canon fodder also, particularlyin the Americancivil war.. Pretty much sold into slavery throughout the carribbean also. Come on

[Donny osmond]

How weird is it that Irish republicans and Ulster loyalists are marching together in protest at .... mass immigration to Ireland???? I mean, quite apart from despairing at the usual misinformation handling around immigrants, this is Ireland. The Irish diaspora has been welcomed all over the world. Ireland is famous for emmigration, and here they, some of them are, protesting immigration?

Also they were hardly welcomed everywhere, cheap labour everywhere they went, often used as Canon fodder also, particularlyin the Americancivil war.. Pretty much sold into slavery throughout the carribbean also. Come on

Ok, that's fair, apologies. I was only thinking about my lifetime.

[Donny osmond]

How weird is it that Irish republicans and Ulster loyalists are marching together in protest at .... mass immigration to Ireland???? I mean, quite apart from despairing at the usual misinformation handling around immigrants, this is Ireland. The Irish diaspora has been welcomed all over the world. Ireland is famous for emmigration, and here they, some of them are, protesting immigration?

There's pond life in every country. Plenty of American right wing money been sent to groups to stir shit up. Loads of English over here stirring aswell, outside my local library. For instance

Unofficial reports do seem to suggest a large degree of movement by troublemakers around the country to wherever the next 'riot' is happening. It'd be interesting to know if it is being coordinated in some way.

[Which Tyler]

This is the legacy of the conservatives. Austerity that amounted to fuck all good for most people, horrendous widening of wealth disparity and the empowerment of the far right.

All whilst pandering to the racists and blaming immigrants for all ills.
These thugs have had decades of having their racism, and their fear of the other fed by misinformation (being charitable) from the likes of Farage and Lennon. They then felt validated by Brexit, and enabled by the last decade+ of home secretaries.

Their enablers have just lost an election, at the same time as their validator was elected into Parliament - so they were just waiting for an excuse to kick off.

Speculation and lies surrounding the stabbing provided that "excuse".

The likes of Johnson, May, Patel, Badenoch etc need to hang their heads in shame (and if they were capable of shame, they wouldn't be who they are).
Lennon needs to be in jail, along with the ringleaders of these riots. The other rioters need various other punishments like travel bans, electronic monitoring, fines etc etc*, and some of them imprisoned as well.
Farage needs to be made to realise that he's an MP now, and there's a difference between taking a shit outside of the tent, to taking that same shit inside it.

This whole build up of tension is the result of lies from people who absolutely do know better, over decades. It's preying on feelings that absolutely do not stand up to factual analysis, in order to gain or keep personal power - or just to sell newspapers or garner clicks.


* Equally, every single one of the rioters should get a harsher sentence than any peaceful protestors have, but I'm trying hard to separate out that miscarriage of justice.

[Donny osmond]

No weirder than (white) USA doing the same about immigrants

I was thinking in terms of the very recent, very deep divisions between those communities.

[paddy no 11]

How weird is it that Irish republicans and Ulster loyalists are marching together in protest at .... mass immigration to Ireland???? I mean, quite apart from despairing at the usual misinformation handling around immigrants, this is Ireland. The Irish diaspora has been welcomed all over the world. Ireland is famous for emmigration, and here they, some of them are, protesting immigration?

Also they were hardly welcomed everywhere, cheap labour everywhere they went, often used as Canon fodder also, particularlyin the Americancivil war.. Pretty much sold into slavery throughout the carribbean also. Come on

Ok, that's fair, apologies. I was only thinking about my lifetime.

Ah no worries, there's a fair point in there alright. The pond life are just interested in anything other than violence and hating everyone who's not identical to themselves, hopefully they dissolve back into their own factions once the soccer is back on

[Which Tyler]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opini ... sk-380246/

Elevenses: Musk
Elon Musk just responded to the threat posed by the far-right on his channel in the worst possible way.

...

Musk responded on X by posting two exclamation marks underneath a post put out on his platform not by the prime minister of the United Kingdom but by none other than Tommy Robinson himself, who claimed (incorrectly) that the Labour leader was branding everyone upset about the murder of three little girls as “thugs”. With the prospect of more than a dozen protests across the country in the coming days, the reality of a world without social media guardrails have been thrust into the spotlight, and in Musk, we are starting to see the consequences of a man with the keys to one of the biggest social media platforms in the world who can’t distinguish between free speech and hate speech.

[Sandydragon]

This is the legacy of the conservatives. Austerity that amounted to fuck all good for most people, horrendous widening of wealth disparity and the empowerment of the far right.

None of that has helped. But anger at immigration was present during the last Labour government. That was a big driver for Brexit. No government has properly made the positive case for immigration or helped to support communities where there has been an impact.

But I do agree that the last Tory government created such a hostile barrier to immigration that it’s inflamed the situation still further.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Watched the news last night. Can't believe this shit is still going on. It's more WTF England & NI? now though.

Funny how the truth about the suspect has made zero difference to these thugs. Almost like they enjoy hurting people, throwing bricks and setting things on fire. Nice to hear them using that Sunak slogan, stop the boats. Well done Tories for making far-right issues mainstream.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_riots

I wonder how much contact Farage and Reform actually have with these rent-a-mob cunts. This is making me think of the riots in Germany in the early 30s (although much less violent and deadly). Music to Farage's ears. This is how he wants the next 5 years to go, then it's further into power (especially if the Tories continue to be Reform-lite).

I can sort of see why Starmer didn't call Farage out on this. He doesn't want to give him any more oxygen, make Farage officially part of it. Treat it as a crime, not politics. He's never going to win a political charisma battle with Farage, so don't go there.

There’s no proof either that Farage has any links to the EDL, which makes Starmer look a bit of a tit if she tries to insist there is. Why give Farage an easy opportunity to proclaim martyrdom again?

Agreed. I wasn't very clear the way I wrote that. I just meant the fact that Starmer didn't directly criticize Farage for his irresponsible remarks.

[Son of Mathonwy]

* Equally, every single one of the rioters should get a harsher sentence than any peaceful protestors have, but I'm trying hard to separate out that miscarriage of justice.

It would be nice if they got the same treatment as non-violent climate protesters are getting these days. Not sure we have enough jail space for that though.

[Mikey Brown]

This is the legacy of the conservatives. Austerity that amounted to fuck all good for most people, horrendous widening of wealth disparity and the empowerment of the far right.

None of that has helped.

Lol. Agreed.

[Son of Mathonwy]

These riots have the right wing press in a bit of a quandary. They like law and order and the police and all that but they basically agree with the rioters' complaints.

Thankfully the Sun is on the right side today with their 'Day of Shame' headline and the 'yobs' and 'thugs'. The Mail is also okay, criticising Robinson for his fake stories stoking the riots. The Telegraph is pretty despicable: from their 'Far-Right Clash with Muslims in Rioting' front page you'd be hard pressed to know which group is more responsible.

https://www.frontpages.com/uk-newspapers/

[Which Tyler]

Question for the audience.

By my understanding, a riot is a relatively spontaneous eruption of violence, usually (but not exclusively) starting as non-violent protest getting worked up and spilling over.
I'm seeing ever more reports (variety of MSM) that these are organised, and often the same people travelling from one town to another to go rioting and looting. Hardly a spontaneous eruption from within previously peaceful protest.

By my understanding, terrorism is the use of violence and intimidation to create fear/terror amongst civilians, usually (but not exclusively) in the pursuit of political aims.

At what point does organised rioting become domestic terrorism?
Or have I got my interpretations all wrong? (entirely possible)

[Puja]

Question for the audience.

By my understanding, a riot is a relatively spontaneous eruption of violence, usually (but not exclusively) starting as non-violent protest getting worked up and spilling over.
I'm seeing ever more reports (variety of MSM) that these are organised, and often the same people travelling from one town to another to go rioting and looting. Hardly a spontaneous eruption from within previously peaceful protest.

By my understanding, terrorism is the use of violence and intimidation to create fear/terror amongst civilians, usually (but not exclusively) in the pursuit of political aims.

At what point does organised rioting become domestic terrorism?
Or have I got my interpretations all wrong? (entirely possible)

You're absolutely right in that this does look very much like the dictionary definition of terrorism, except for the fact that the perpetrators are all white, so therefore it's "rioting" or "unrest".

Puja

[Sandydragon]

The government would love to call the EDL a terrorist organisation, but that needs proof. Many reports hint at a level of organisation but u til proven that’s just heresay. And plenty of unsavoury organisations haven’t been labelled terrorist in the past. It’s a significant bar to pass , and rightly so.

Suggesting that the issue is down to race alone is a load of crap. A cursory look through the history of how organisations are proscribed would suggest otherwise.

[Which Tyler]

Worth noting - EDL dont exist.

Who's suggested that it's down to race alone? Or are you taking Puja's obvious joke as being a serious comment?

[Mikey Brown]

When it comes to things like setting building on fire and blocking the entrances, does it even matter what term you use? Or is officially labelling them as terrorists needed in terms of capturing more of them under the same net with shared responsibility?

[Which Tyler]

It would certainly make an emotional difference. I would assume it would make a legal difference in terms of what investigative powers (and reaources?) the police would have.
But I don't know, another good question