Statistic of the Day

[Guest]

Cyprus won 24 in a row. After losing the ENC 2006/08 division 3C/3D playoff, they went undefeated through the entire 2008/10 3D tournament, the 2010/12 2D tournament AND the 2012/14 2C tournament before reaching their level of competence at ENC 2B, where they won their first match but recorded only 2 wins in their other 7 matches.

[Lizard]

South Africa and Australia have only 3 away wins in New Zealand each, so statistically, it's a fair assumption to believe that the All Blacks are likely to win.

Not only that, but no one at all has beaten NZ at home for nearly 7 years (41 tests).

[rowan]

I could be wrong, but I understood Cyprus' record was not officially recognised as they were not affiliated to World Rugby at the time (and basically full of expats), leaving Lithuania with the officially recognised record...

[Lizard]

I could be wrong, but I understood Cyprus' record was not officially recognised as they were not affiliated to World Rugby at the time (and basically full of expats), leaving Lithuania with the officially recognised record...

I can't find the details but certainly Cyprus was prevented from entering RWC qualifying as it was not a full IRB member. That doesn't mean it's international matches were not tests.

I do have some recollection that part of the reason they couldn't get full membership was somehow related to the number of expats (Cypriot rugby basically evolved from British Forces rugby on the island).

[rowan]

That's my recollection of it also. So, kiss me if I'm wrong, but I believe Lithuania's 17 game winning streak between 2006 & 2010 is the official record - albeit mostly against ENC division 3B opposition. NB: It would have been 18 but included an unofficial victory over Armenia, who were not World Rugby affiliated (and disappeared off the radar after World Rugby pushed them to meet the necessary criteria).

[scuzzaman]

I believe the All Blacks are currently sitting on 12 RWC wins in succession. No other team has managed this.

Given usual pool play results, we stand a very good chance of extending that record considerably in the next RWC.

[EDIT: You know, as long as we don't have to play Japan ... ]

[rowan]

Kiss me if I'm wrong, but I believe they are currently tied with the Wallabies in that regard. Australia won 12 consecutive World Cup matches in 1999 and 2003, before losing the final of the latter tournament in extra time to England.

[zer0]

Kiss me if I'm wrong, but I believe they are currently tied with the Wallabies in that regard. Australia won 12 consecutive World Cup matches in 1999 and 2003, before losing the final of the latter tournament in extra time to England.

No, no. The All Blacks hold the record outright with 14 consecutive wins in 2011 & 2015, to the Wallabies 12 from 1999 & 2003.

[Lizard]

The All Blacks also hold the record for longest winning streak in the 3N/RC being 12 matches from 2012 to 2013. That was ended by a draw with Aussie, giving an undefeated run of 17.

SA's best is 5 in a row, Aussie only 3. Los Pumas are yet to chalk up any consecutive wins.

[Guest]

Just to round it off, NZ has the longest Bledisloe winning streak (matches I mean, not series) of 10 (2008-2010) with an undefeated streak of 11 (1967-78). Aussie's best was 3 in a row a few times (1978-80, 1998, 2000-01). They haven't had back to back wins v NZ since the last of those.

[zer0]

It's impossible for a team to have won 2 consecutive world cups and not have the record for most consecutive RWC wins.

Not necessarily. If you lose a pool game then that'd reset the count. In that scenario it'd be more damaging dropping a pool match in the second tournament than the first. For example, if the All Blacks lost their first 2011 pool match, but won everything else in winning the two titles, then they'd have a record of 13 consecutive wins. If, on the other hand, they won every match in 2011 and dropped their last 2015 pool match on route to winning the title, then they'd end up with two titles but would not surpass Australia's record of 12 as their run would've ended at 10 when they lost that final hypothetical pool match.

[Lizard]

Exactly. England has twice made the RWC final after losing a pool match, so it's not out of the question for someone to win it without going undefeated.

[rowan]

France came closest in 2011. & they'd been beaten twice at the group stages!!

[Lizard]

In the last three matches between Aust and NZ the average margin has been a tick over 26 points.

New Zealand has never lost to anybody by more than 21.

[rowan]

Apart from the 40-17 thumping from Sydney in 1992.

8-42 was a record loss for the Wallabies at home, btw.

[Lizard]

Undefeated Test Captains (with 10+ tests):

Buck Shelford 1988-90 (NZ) 14
Shalva Sutiashvili 2014-16* (GEO) 14
Kieran Read 2012-16* (NZ) 13
Dave Davies 1921-23 (ENG) 11
Dylan Hartley 2012-16* (ENG) 10

*Unfinished run

Barring injury or banning, it seems unlikely that any of the contenders will maintain their unbeaten status until the end of their careers and will therefore eventually drop off this list even if they temporarily overtake Shelford. Sutiashvili is 32 though, so might not be around too much longer.

Both Shelford and Sutiashvili captained in a draw, leaving Read with the record for most tests (13) as Captain with a 100% win record. The next best on that list is Nicolas Fernandez Miranda with 6 (2002-2005, ARG). No-one else has more than 4.

I believe that Sir Brian Lochore reached a world record 14 consecutive wins as captain before his first loss.

[Lizard]

Apart from the 40-17 thumping from Sydney in 1992.

8-42 was a record loss for the Wallabies at home, btw.

True, thank you. I should have specified in tests. In any event, the point still stands even with that 23 point upset as the mark in question.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Cyprus won 24 in a row. After losing the ENC 2006/08 division 3C/3D playoff, they went undefeated through the entire 2008/10 3D tournament, the 2010/12 2D tournament AND the 2012/14 2C tournament before reaching their level of competence at ENC 2B, where they won their first match but recorded only 2 wins in their other 7 matches.

Lizard.

[Lizard]

Is it just me or is Julian Savea not given just dues. The Bus has 40 tries in 44 matches putting him 5th on the NZ list behind Howlett, Cullen, Rokocoko and J. Wilson and ahead of Lomu, yet all those players seemed to be much more highly regarded in their day than Julian is now.

For context, there are only 14 men in history with 40 or more tries. Here’s how many tests it took them to get to 40:

D. Ohata: 35
J. Savea: 44
J. Rokocoko: 46
C. Cullen: 48
D. Howlett: 49
J. Wilson: 55
D. Campese: 56
H. Onozawa: 56
S. Williams: 57
B. Habana: 73
R. Underwood: 75
C. Latham: 77
G. Thomas: 99
B. O’Driscoll: 107

[zer0]

He was given plenty of fanfare before he contracted a persistent case of the Weepu's.

[Lizard]

He was given plenty of fanfare before he contracted a persistent case of the Weepu's.

I guess we will have to wait and see how his career pans out. He might end up dancing on cars in Tokyo in 2019, or like Roko fade from 40 tries in 40-odd tests to 46 tries in 68 tests (his last 21 tests over 3 years and 1 month yielded just 3 tries).

[rowan]

Is it just me or is Julian Savea not given just dues. The Bus has 40 tries in 44 matches putting him 5th on the NZ list behind Howlett, Cullen, Rokocoko and J. Wilson and ahead of Lomu, yet all those players seemed to be much more highly regarded in their day than Julian is now.

For context, there are only 14 men in history with 40 or more tries. Here’s how many tests it took them to get to 40:

D. Ohata: 35
J. Savea: 44
J. Rokocoko: 46
C. Cullen: 48
D. Howlett: 49
J. Wilson: 55
D. Campese: 56
H. Onozawa: 56
S. Williams: 57
B. Habana: 73
R. Underwood: 75
C. Latham: 77
G. Thomas: 99
B. O’Driscoll: 107

A lot of it has to do with how dominant the team you're playing in is, of course. The All Blacks have probably never been so dominant as when Savea has been playing. About any of the players in that list would have scored as many tries, if not more, had they had that luxury. They might not have got the smash-bash ones, but they'd have made up for it in other ways

[Lizard]

Yes. Years ago on a previous RR incarnation I did a detailed breakdown of percentage of team tries scored during a players career and whether the players presence on the pitch lifted the average number of tries scored. This took fucking ages and I'm not going to do it again. Probably.

[rowan]

Kiss me if I'm wrong, but haven't the All Blacks now been ranked number one in the world since the beginning of the decade, and haven't they maintained an unbeaten record at home all that time, with the only blemishes on their record being the odd away defeat to former World Champions Australia, SA & England - invariably by the narrowest of margins. Even their old nemesis France hasn't prevailed against them once this decade and were given a royal thumping at last year's World Cup. Wales hasn't beaten them for over 60 years (& NEVER in NZ), and nobody else in international rugby has managed a single victory against the All Blacks in the entire history of the game - unless we count Rhodesia/Zimbabwe

[Lizard]

I'm not going to kiss you, but I would argue that the Lions and 1992 World XV are "in international rugby" and have recorded wins against the All Blacks.

Blemishes since 2009 include away draws, as well as the losses you mention. The losses were not necessarily by the narrowest of margins - England's 38-21 victory in 2012 was the 3rd heaviest defeat of the All Blacks ever. 2011's 18-5 win by the Boks was their 4th biggest win ever over NZ (not including 14 and 15 point wins over the Cavaliers).