England vs France - minute-by-minute - COMPLETED
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England vs France - minute-by-minute - COMPLETED
Back again, like a bad penny. Thank you for your patience one and all - a bit of dodgy mental health combined with England contriving to throw away winning position after winning position left me unable to do these, but I'm glad to be back and very thankful for the kind comments I have received.
Initial impressions:
England looked a little bit nervous first 20 minutes and had practically none of the ball, however they mostly had France contained and the "dozens of points thrown away" by France were actually mostly down to English defensive pressure. England also did an absolute number on Dupont and shut him down with numbers and pressure (although I think the last French try came from giving him too much respect and fear and stepping back rather than trying to pressure like they would've anyone else). Thought this was another examination of El-Abd's system where he came out massively in credit.
I thought Martin was poor in everything but defence, LCD was anonymous to bad, and I actually don't have an opinion on Slade - I think he was on the pitch?
Other people thought Genge was bad and that MSmith at 15 was bad. Not sure I agree, but I'll be keeping an eye out.
FSmith started poorly but grew into it. All of our penalty kicks for touch, from both Smiths and Slade, were terrible though.
Amashukeli showed once again that he's the best referee in the world
And we are starting a counter - this week it is Points left on the table: England 0 : 0 France
Let's see how many of those hold up.
Minute 1: FSmith kicks us off and it's not the same competitive routine we ran against Ireland, more's the pity. Seems like we don't feel it's worthwhile without Steward chasing, and instead do a more traditional sideways kick that France take comfortably. They attempt to set a maul, but we defend well, so France go to ground and Dupont box kicks. MSmith takes easily and feeds Earl to crash it up. This was a pattern I saw England use a lot in the game - Earl was always in the backfield to play as an ersatz Steward role of running hard and fast into traffic. He runs between Gros and Barassi and makes good ground, but is lucky not to be turned over - LCD makes a dog's dinner of clearing out by tripping over a tackler and MSmith has to come in to clear out. Not sure burying MSmith in a ruck was the point of having Earl sitting in the backfield!
The ball comes back to FSmith and he's spotted an opportunity - France are up flat and narrow and the chip kick over to the top for Freeman is on, but he takes too long to get it onto his boot and it's hearts in mouths as it's charged down. Thankfully the ball doesn't bounce for France and a flailing Mitchell hand gets it somewhere near our side. I'm fairly certain Genge is offside when he gathers the loose ball, but let's not quibble over a bit of luck! No wonder FSmith was nervous with that being his first real touch!
We get the ball back and there's actually an overlap on the left - Mitchell passes to Curry at 10 and there's a backline of Slade, Lawrence and Sleightholme standing outside with a 4-on-2... except that none of the backs seem interested in playing with TCurry. Maybe he spilled a pint, maybe they're like teenage girls who're giving him the silent treatment, but they appear quite content that he's just going to run and crash it up so they don't need to be on his shoulder. Curry runs onto it, appears nonplussed by the French standing off, and then puts in an absolutely glorious diagonal grubber kick that could've been a try if Sleightholme wasn't 5m behind the play and ambling because he hadn't realised that was something that might happen.
Sleightholme chases hard eventually and pins Ramos on the touchline - he steps inside but get melted by Lawrence and Sleightholme is in over the ball.
Minute 2: He actually jackals the ball back England's way with some beautiful technique, but some unspecified action in the fireworks fog sees it go loose and France dive on it - think that should've been our penalty, but we got luck with the Genge one, so no complaints
Martin goes flying up in defence in the next phase and nearly gets stepped, but does a very good job to cling on with one hand and France are caught behind the gainline. Slow ball, so Dupont kicks long again, off his left this time, just to show off. It takes a deflection on the way through, but it makes little difference - MSmith is in good position and sweeps up the ball before going on a run. He jinks to interest the first man and feeds Freeman with a pass that we shall generously call flat and anyone not supporting England probably calls forwards, then does a run-around to collect the ball as Freeman draws in more defenders. It's a lovely move and, if he can get one more pass in, then Slade is making a clean break with FSmith on his shoulder, but Bielle-Biarrey recognises the danger and early and jams in on Smith to knock the ball free. Shame.
Minute 3: First scrum and first minute where nothing happens. Thank gods, especially considering how garrulous I was in minute 1. We need more minutes where nothing happens if I'm going to survive this. Amashukeli reads the riot act after the first bit of fuckery and resets.
Minute 4: We get a mostly functioning scrum - both Stuart and Atonio are boring in, but the ball makes it to the back and the ref decides it's best to let it get out. Dupont breaks to the right and attempt a chip kick to Penaud - it's a good call, but it had to be perfect to work and it wasn't, bouncing into touch. Sleightholme does really well to use his pace to get back and would have Penaud into touch even if he had caught it - great use of his USP there.
England lineout just outside the 22 and it's a nice inset lift move to get clean uncontested ball to Curry in the middle - feels like we went away from those moves when we struggled later in the game and I'm not sure why when this worked so well. Ball down to Martin who plays 9 - he considers feeding TWillis who is keen to carry, but instead he decides he's better placed and carries into a team of Cros and Gros who smash him down - he doesn't go backwards, but he very definitely stops going forwards. Mitchell sets up the caterpillar and box and this is a good one to contest...
Minute 5: Jalibert does a fantastic job to take under pressure from Sleightholme, who already has too long of a name for the number of times I've mentioned it so far this game. France recycle and play into midfield, but Martin is getting his own back by clobbering Atonio behind the gainline. France get a bit more momentum by carrying around the corner, and then spin it wide. The changes in defence from FJones are very clear to see here - England are undernumbered but, instead of charging up to try and kill the pass wide, we switch to a well organised drift that only fails because Freeman panics and treads water like he's got a slower player inside him that he doesn't want to lose connection with. It's a bad mistake, as Slade has got the inside man very well covered and so there's no reason for Freeman to be so narrow and leave Ramos with a free run down the wing. Thankfully Bielle-Biarrey has dramatically overrun on his supporting line and Ramos has to pass forward and the ball still goes behind him, so it bounces free. MSmith picks up the ball and wants to counter - we do have numbers wide, so it is on, but Mitchell takes the pass and decides that he doesn't want to attack from our 22 and instead kicks long. Too long, in fact, kicking dead when it was passed back into the 22, so we're back for the scrum.
I am going to open the counter for that - we do have cover coming across, but if Bielle-Biarrey is a metre further back, then he takes the pass and I think he finishes that.
Points left on the table: England 0 : 5 France
ETA. One thing which I didn't spot on my viewing of this, but which I've seen after watching video reviews, is that I've been generous to France here, because Slade actually stops this try. The reason LBB has overrun Ramos is because he's had to accelerate and then run hard to stay ahead of Slade chasing back. I said "if Bielle-Biarrey is a metre further back", but if he is, then Slade slaps down the pass. Apologies to the big HenryS - I have missed a good moment from him and one that I suspect I was not alone in missing, given him being castigated for not running hard enough to chase back later in the game.
As such, let's reset:
Points left on the table: England 0 : 0 France
Initial impressions:
England looked a little bit nervous first 20 minutes and had practically none of the ball, however they mostly had France contained and the "dozens of points thrown away" by France were actually mostly down to English defensive pressure. England also did an absolute number on Dupont and shut him down with numbers and pressure (although I think the last French try came from giving him too much respect and fear and stepping back rather than trying to pressure like they would've anyone else). Thought this was another examination of El-Abd's system where he came out massively in credit.
I thought Martin was poor in everything but defence, LCD was anonymous to bad, and I actually don't have an opinion on Slade - I think he was on the pitch?
Other people thought Genge was bad and that MSmith at 15 was bad. Not sure I agree, but I'll be keeping an eye out.
FSmith started poorly but grew into it. All of our penalty kicks for touch, from both Smiths and Slade, were terrible though.
Amashukeli showed once again that he's the best referee in the world
And we are starting a counter - this week it is Points left on the table: England 0 : 0 France
Let's see how many of those hold up.
Minute 1: FSmith kicks us off and it's not the same competitive routine we ran against Ireland, more's the pity. Seems like we don't feel it's worthwhile without Steward chasing, and instead do a more traditional sideways kick that France take comfortably. They attempt to set a maul, but we defend well, so France go to ground and Dupont box kicks. MSmith takes easily and feeds Earl to crash it up. This was a pattern I saw England use a lot in the game - Earl was always in the backfield to play as an ersatz Steward role of running hard and fast into traffic. He runs between Gros and Barassi and makes good ground, but is lucky not to be turned over - LCD makes a dog's dinner of clearing out by tripping over a tackler and MSmith has to come in to clear out. Not sure burying MSmith in a ruck was the point of having Earl sitting in the backfield!
The ball comes back to FSmith and he's spotted an opportunity - France are up flat and narrow and the chip kick over to the top for Freeman is on, but he takes too long to get it onto his boot and it's hearts in mouths as it's charged down. Thankfully the ball doesn't bounce for France and a flailing Mitchell hand gets it somewhere near our side. I'm fairly certain Genge is offside when he gathers the loose ball, but let's not quibble over a bit of luck! No wonder FSmith was nervous with that being his first real touch!
We get the ball back and there's actually an overlap on the left - Mitchell passes to Curry at 10 and there's a backline of Slade, Lawrence and Sleightholme standing outside with a 4-on-2... except that none of the backs seem interested in playing with TCurry. Maybe he spilled a pint, maybe they're like teenage girls who're giving him the silent treatment, but they appear quite content that he's just going to run and crash it up so they don't need to be on his shoulder. Curry runs onto it, appears nonplussed by the French standing off, and then puts in an absolutely glorious diagonal grubber kick that could've been a try if Sleightholme wasn't 5m behind the play and ambling because he hadn't realised that was something that might happen.
Sleightholme chases hard eventually and pins Ramos on the touchline - he steps inside but get melted by Lawrence and Sleightholme is in over the ball.
Minute 2: He actually jackals the ball back England's way with some beautiful technique, but some unspecified action in the fireworks fog sees it go loose and France dive on it - think that should've been our penalty, but we got luck with the Genge one, so no complaints
Martin goes flying up in defence in the next phase and nearly gets stepped, but does a very good job to cling on with one hand and France are caught behind the gainline. Slow ball, so Dupont kicks long again, off his left this time, just to show off. It takes a deflection on the way through, but it makes little difference - MSmith is in good position and sweeps up the ball before going on a run. He jinks to interest the first man and feeds Freeman with a pass that we shall generously call flat and anyone not supporting England probably calls forwards, then does a run-around to collect the ball as Freeman draws in more defenders. It's a lovely move and, if he can get one more pass in, then Slade is making a clean break with FSmith on his shoulder, but Bielle-Biarrey recognises the danger and early and jams in on Smith to knock the ball free. Shame.
Minute 3: First scrum and first minute where nothing happens. Thank gods, especially considering how garrulous I was in minute 1. We need more minutes where nothing happens if I'm going to survive this. Amashukeli reads the riot act after the first bit of fuckery and resets.
Minute 4: We get a mostly functioning scrum - both Stuart and Atonio are boring in, but the ball makes it to the back and the ref decides it's best to let it get out. Dupont breaks to the right and attempt a chip kick to Penaud - it's a good call, but it had to be perfect to work and it wasn't, bouncing into touch. Sleightholme does really well to use his pace to get back and would have Penaud into touch even if he had caught it - great use of his USP there.
England lineout just outside the 22 and it's a nice inset lift move to get clean uncontested ball to Curry in the middle - feels like we went away from those moves when we struggled later in the game and I'm not sure why when this worked so well. Ball down to Martin who plays 9 - he considers feeding TWillis who is keen to carry, but instead he decides he's better placed and carries into a team of Cros and Gros who smash him down - he doesn't go backwards, but he very definitely stops going forwards. Mitchell sets up the caterpillar and box and this is a good one to contest...
Minute 5: Jalibert does a fantastic job to take under pressure from Sleightholme, who already has too long of a name for the number of times I've mentioned it so far this game. France recycle and play into midfield, but Martin is getting his own back by clobbering Atonio behind the gainline. France get a bit more momentum by carrying around the corner, and then spin it wide. The changes in defence from FJones are very clear to see here - England are undernumbered but, instead of charging up to try and kill the pass wide, we switch to a well organised drift that only fails because Freeman panics and treads water like he's got a slower player inside him that he doesn't want to lose connection with. It's a bad mistake, as Slade has got the inside man very well covered and so there's no reason for Freeman to be so narrow and leave Ramos with a free run down the wing. Thankfully Bielle-Biarrey has dramatically overrun on his supporting line and Ramos has to pass forward and the ball still goes behind him, so it bounces free. MSmith picks up the ball and wants to counter - we do have numbers wide, so it is on, but Mitchell takes the pass and decides that he doesn't want to attack from our 22 and instead kicks long. Too long, in fact, kicking dead when it was passed back into the 22, so we're back for the scrum.
I am going to open the counter for that - we do have cover coming across, but if Bielle-Biarrey is a metre further back, then he takes the pass and I think he finishes that.
Points left on the table: England 0 : 5 France
ETA. One thing which I didn't spot on my viewing of this, but which I've seen after watching video reviews, is that I've been generous to France here, because Slade actually stops this try. The reason LBB has overrun Ramos is because he's had to accelerate and then run hard to stay ahead of Slade chasing back. I said "if Bielle-Biarrey is a metre further back", but if he is, then Slade slaps down the pass. Apologies to the big HenryS - I have missed a good moment from him and one that I suspect I was not alone in missing, given him being castigated for not running hard enough to chase back later in the game.
As such, let's reset:
Points left on the table: England 0 : 0 France
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
Minute 6: Atonio is fucking about at the next scrum, abruptly changing height before engage to try and force Genge higher, but Genge does extremely well to resist him. We struggle to get the ball to the back and, when we do, Dupont is all over TWillis (I had originally thought he was offside, but on replay, he's timed it perfectly and TWillis has just screwed up the pickup), but Amashukeli is already giving a penalty for Atonio's shenanigans and we get the chance to clear our lines.
Minute 7: Slade goes very long with the penalty kick and nearly gets it from 22 to 22, but unfortunately he fails to find touch. I don't mind that too much - I'd rather he went ambitious from that position than going tamely for a touch within our own half.
Ramos kicks it long back to England's 22 and there is a brief ping-pong before France bounce the ball into touch just past England's 10m line. England lineout.
Minute 8: The lineout goes to Martin in the middle, but he fumbles it under pressure. It goes backwards though and bounces kindly for England, so TWillis carries it up, brushing off the first defender before finally being brought to ground 4m after first contact. We caterpillar and box and it's another great, contestible kick, that Freeman somehow utterly loses the flight of. He overruns badly, jumps far too early, and grabs at Bielle-Biarrey in the air as he flies past, giving away the penalty.
Full marks to Itoje here - the loose ball bounces loose as Amashuekli blows, and bounces to a French player standing behind the referee. The Frenchman is looking to run or pass the ball over for a quick tap, but Itoje smacks his forearm behind the ref's back, knocking the ball loose. It's very sneaky play and I love it (when we do it).
France kick the penalty down to where the lineout was at the was a minute ago, but this time it's French ball.
Minute 9: France take uncontested ball at the front and try to set a maul. It's initially well-defended by England, but France do a really nice roll inside and lose half the England pack to give them a nearly undefended flying wedge. However, Tom Curry has ended up (legally) at the French side of the maul with the roll and does his best Captain America holding down a helicopter impression by digging his heels in and refusing to let go of the ball carrier - he gets dragged a few metres, but it slows them enough to allow the rest of the forwards to get back around to stop them and then stops France from breaking away into dishevelled defence. Possibly ends up with him bringing down a maul, but there's an argument it's a tackle on a breakaway and Amashukeli appears to share my opinion that he should get the benefit of the doubt after just having performed superheroics.
France reset and sent Meafou on a crash ball, but he's met by a technically excellent double tackle at his midriff by LCD and Genge and stopped on the gainline - we've definitely been working on defence in training. Two more crash balls phases follow - the first is stopped the same way by Martin/FSmith, but the second sees Lawrence/Stuart both abandoning the plan and going for high weak tackles and getting dragged. It gives France quick ball and the front foot and they go wide quickly with some excellent passing. We have not folded well enough and France end up with 2-on-1 against MSmith. MSmith doesn't bite in and abandon Penaud, so Ramos dummies and goes inside where he is makes 10m and is dragged down by the scramble defence.
It's quick ball again, but it's time for more TCurry superheroics - he sees Roumat is standing at 10, clearly planning to pull-back so a back can then wang it wide, and backs himself to beat the ball to him. Roumat is unnerved by having a hot Curry about to rearrange his innards and fumbles as he attempts to catch and give before he gets the phaal treatment. It's a phenomenal defensive read and perfectly executed.
Minute 10: We just about get a scrum done in the minute - took a while to set up, but this one is technically perfect and stable, so full marks the ref for his talking. We get the ball to the back and Mitchell passes blind for Slade to kick away. It's... not a great kick under very little pressure, considering that we've clearly elected to use Slade rather than our fly-half or our other fly-half, and considering his reputation of being a top-tier touch-finder. It does find touch, I suppose, and does get us 35m out, but it's only gained us about 20m and we really should be hoping to get near the halfway line from that kind of stable, set-play clearance of our lines.
Minute 7: Slade goes very long with the penalty kick and nearly gets it from 22 to 22, but unfortunately he fails to find touch. I don't mind that too much - I'd rather he went ambitious from that position than going tamely for a touch within our own half.
Ramos kicks it long back to England's 22 and there is a brief ping-pong before France bounce the ball into touch just past England's 10m line. England lineout.
Minute 8: The lineout goes to Martin in the middle, but he fumbles it under pressure. It goes backwards though and bounces kindly for England, so TWillis carries it up, brushing off the first defender before finally being brought to ground 4m after first contact. We caterpillar and box and it's another great, contestible kick, that Freeman somehow utterly loses the flight of. He overruns badly, jumps far too early, and grabs at Bielle-Biarrey in the air as he flies past, giving away the penalty.
Full marks to Itoje here - the loose ball bounces loose as Amashuekli blows, and bounces to a French player standing behind the referee. The Frenchman is looking to run or pass the ball over for a quick tap, but Itoje smacks his forearm behind the ref's back, knocking the ball loose. It's very sneaky play and I love it (when we do it).
France kick the penalty down to where the lineout was at the was a minute ago, but this time it's French ball.
Minute 9: France take uncontested ball at the front and try to set a maul. It's initially well-defended by England, but France do a really nice roll inside and lose half the England pack to give them a nearly undefended flying wedge. However, Tom Curry has ended up (legally) at the French side of the maul with the roll and does his best Captain America holding down a helicopter impression by digging his heels in and refusing to let go of the ball carrier - he gets dragged a few metres, but it slows them enough to allow the rest of the forwards to get back around to stop them and then stops France from breaking away into dishevelled defence. Possibly ends up with him bringing down a maul, but there's an argument it's a tackle on a breakaway and Amashukeli appears to share my opinion that he should get the benefit of the doubt after just having performed superheroics.
France reset and sent Meafou on a crash ball, but he's met by a technically excellent double tackle at his midriff by LCD and Genge and stopped on the gainline - we've definitely been working on defence in training. Two more crash balls phases follow - the first is stopped the same way by Martin/FSmith, but the second sees Lawrence/Stuart both abandoning the plan and going for high weak tackles and getting dragged. It gives France quick ball and the front foot and they go wide quickly with some excellent passing. We have not folded well enough and France end up with 2-on-1 against MSmith. MSmith doesn't bite in and abandon Penaud, so Ramos dummies and goes inside where he is makes 10m and is dragged down by the scramble defence.
It's quick ball again, but it's time for more TCurry superheroics - he sees Roumat is standing at 10, clearly planning to pull-back so a back can then wang it wide, and backs himself to beat the ball to him. Roumat is unnerved by having a hot Curry about to rearrange his innards and fumbles as he attempts to catch and give before he gets the phaal treatment. It's a phenomenal defensive read and perfectly executed.
Minute 10: We just about get a scrum done in the minute - took a while to set up, but this one is technically perfect and stable, so full marks the ref for his talking. We get the ball to the back and Mitchell passes blind for Slade to kick away. It's... not a great kick under very little pressure, considering that we've clearly elected to use Slade rather than our fly-half or our other fly-half, and considering his reputation of being a top-tier touch-finder. It does find touch, I suppose, and does get us 35m out, but it's only gained us about 20m and we really should be hoping to get near the halfway line from that kind of stable, set-play clearance of our lines.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
That's all you get for the moment - more later.
Puja
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
who said smith was bad at 15? I said he was average. (answer could be Stephen Jones in his usual ludicrous way)
Thoroughly disagree on Slade missed touch being ok!
bravo on doing this...
Thoroughly disagree on Slade missed touch being ok!
bravo on doing this...
Last edited by Banquo on Sun Feb 09, 2025 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
Delightfully phrased.
You're brave to take this one on. I feel like so much kept happening every minute with drops and turnovers and the ball going loose and the odd bit of showboating/spark, that this may well turn into something rivaling the Iliad.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
As far as I can tell the 3 missed try opportunities were all handling areas by the French player’s. Whatever the pressure we put on them
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
Thank you, Puja
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
The DuPont kick deflection early doors was Martin who managed to get a hand to his box kick attempt to partially charge it down.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
Thanks for the return of the m-b-m Puja. Appreciated.
I believe there are some in media circles giving the former golden boy and undeserved kicking in their reviews. I'd agree with you, he was fine. Not good but not bad.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
A] I'm pleased to hear that your mental health is improving again
B] Thank you for doing this
C]
But I don't remember that play, so there may have been something unmentioned to create one.
D]
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B] Thank you for doing this
C]
No offside line in open play.Thankfully the ball doesn't bounce for France and a flailing Mitchell hand gets it somewhere near our side. I'm fairly certain Genge is offside when he gathers the loose ball, but let's not quibble over a bit of luck! No wonder FSmith was nervous with that being his first real touch!
But I don't remember that play, so there may have been something unmentioned to create one.
D]
Down boy!However, Tom Curry has ended up (legally) at the French side of the maul with the roll and does his best Captain America holding down a helicopter impression by digging his heels in and refusing to let go of the ball carrier
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Last edited by Which Tyler on Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
Hopefully Marcus has been round the block enough times now not to listen to that bitter has been.Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2025 2:17 pmyeah good old Jones has laid into him.
There's a few going with similar headlines;
Torygraph "England v France player ratings: Fin Smith shows nerves of steel but Marcus fluffs his lines"
The Standard "England player ratings vs France: Fin Smith majestic but Marcus Smith struggles in shaky display"
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
The issue is that Mitchell slaps at the ball as he dives backwards and then Genge, who was in front of him when he played it, picks up the ball.Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2025 2:41 pm C]No offside line in open play.Thankfully the ball doesn't bounce for France and a flailing Mitchell hand gets it somewhere near our side. I'm fairly certain Genge is offside when he gathers the loose ball, but let's not quibble over a bit of luck! No wonder FSmith was nervous with that being his first real touch!
But I don't remember that play, so there may have been something unmentioned to create one.
You're not necessarily wrong.
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Puja
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
Puja, I was interested in your comment about Slade missing touch in the 7th minute. If I remember correctly almost immediately afterwards he put in a long kick (to keep it in-field) and it was accurate to a foot or so, causing the defender to catch it just outside the 22. That was symptomatic of play from quite a few - mistake acknowledged, get on with it - and an indication, IMO, of a better collective frame of mind developing.
Thanks for this.
Thanks for this.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
So... open play then?
Or was it a knock on?
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
Pfft, Slade apologist. Missing touch from a pen is just fckin rubbishOakboy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:39 pm Puja, I was interested in your comment about Slade missing touch in the 7th minute. If I remember correctly almost immediately afterwards he put in a long kick (to keep it in-field) and it was accurate to a foot or so, causing the defender to catch it just outside the 22. That was symptomatic of play from quite a few - mistake acknowledged, get on with it - and an indication, IMO, of a better collective frame of mind developing.
Thanks for this.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
He slaps it marginally backwards as he is diving backwards and the ball then bounces loose. It might be open play, but as soon as he touches the ball, anyone in front of him is offside. It's exactly the same law as if he'd kicked it ineffectively and someone who was standing in front of him picked it up. Genge is not allowed to have been in front of him and dive on the ball - he needs to get behind the line of where Mitchell touched the ball, before he can play it.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
yupPuja wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2025 7:12 pmHe slaps it marginally backwards as he is diving backwards and the ball then bounces loose. It might be open play, but as soon as he touches the ball, anyone in front of him is offside. It's exactly the same law as if he'd kicked it ineffectively and someone who was standing in front of him picked it up. Genge is not allowed to have been in front of him and dive on the ball - he needs to get behind the line of where Mitchell touched the ball, before he can play it.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
I'm still not seeing it, but happy to accept that you guys know more about the laws than I.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
https://www.world.rugby/the-game/beginn ... de/offsideWhich Tyler wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2025 7:52 am I'm still not seeing it, but happy to accept that you guys know more about the laws than I.
The important bit is "A player is offside in open play if that player is in front of a team-mate who is carrying the ball or who last played it. An offside player must not interfere with play." Mitchell plays the ball and it bounces loose. Genge is always in front of him and interferes with play by dropping on the ball.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
Minute 11: France catch uncontested at the front of the lineout and crash it up hard near the back of the lineout. Dupont picks and looks for a snipe, clearly hoping that England have not formed quickly enough around the fringe. Not a bad shout, as England (and English clubs, especially Leicester) have been vulnerable there, but we're noticeably quick to have two players there, both laser focussed on Dupont. He's being man-marked and it's very decent work. Instead, France send a big man in to get solidly met by England's tacklers, then look to spin wide. This time England don't do the favour of stepping in, so France kick through to see how our backfield defence is. Sleightholme has it covered, but the kick is too hard anyway and goes into the try area for him to dot down. Goal line dropout... except the ref has called us back for an offside advantage.
Minute 12: France opt for goal. Replay shows that Genge does stumble half a step forward as Dupont feigns to pass - it's marginal and a touch harsh, but the right call. In front of the posts and it should be 0-3, but Ramos somehow pulls it to the left.
Points left on the table: England 0 : 3 France
Minute 13: We kick the 22 drop-out just too long to compete and a rushing Freeman gets brutally murdered by Bielle-Biarrey's dancing feet. Thankfully, the rest of the kick chase line is solid and we bring him down on the 10m line. Our rush defence is up and we earn 8m by shutting down the first France move, but unfortunately the next phase we go high again on Meafou and he drags two tacklers 8m backwards.
France go wide and again Freeman is caught sticking too close and not trusting his inside men. He gets away with it by sprinting across to drag Ramos down, but he's lucky. Bielle-Biarrey takes the offload and tries to step inside, but Itoje is there to clear up. France attempt to charge it up again, but we blitz and tackle well, pushing them back behind the halfway line before Jalibert decides to kick. He does it badly and the ball ricochets off Slade's boot. It could go anywhere and comes very close to falling for Sleightholme to run in, but Ramos just gets back to save things and the French get around to prevent the steal.
Minute 14: France run another forward rumble to try and make ground, but England once again tackle low and well and stop it behind the gainline, so Dupont decides to caterpillar and box. It goes long to MSmith in good position again and this time, instead of sending Earl crashing up through the centre, he directs him to the wing, draws a defender with a run of his own, and then sends him crashing up there. Good tactic from England to permanently stage a big runner back with MSmith - didn't work perfectly with Genge the other year, but Earl is the ideal player for that role.
Quick ball, but our first phase is stopped on the gainline so FSmith does a pre-called grubber through - it is potentially on, but the Wonder Kid overhits it and it goes to Ramos rather than bouncing in no-man's land. Freeman and Lawrence on the chase both go in on the ballcarrier, which is poor play as he offloads and France are away on the counter. A particular note for Itoje here, who chases across to force Moefana sideways - the 12 is clearly hoping he can round Itoje and isolate the last man, but Itoje stays with him and keeps the defence connected with sheer effort. It won't go down as a tackle or an involvement, but he stops Moefana from straightening or cutting back inside and forces what could've been a linebreak (from another Freeman defensive mistake!) into a tamely contained ruck on the touchline that TCurry's unlucky not to steal.
France do have the ball though and our defence is at sixes and sevens. If we all drift, then we've got numbers covered, or if we all fly up, then France are there to be caught behind the gainline, but Slade's the only one flying up and he fails to catch Atonio before he can pop an offload away, giving Cros a charge up the middle. A good low tackle by TWillis takes his legs and a (just on the edge of legal height, but effective) tackle from Genge brings down the player taking the offload. France have made 20 metres and have quick ball though.
Minute 15: Earl is over the ball - I'd've called that off his feet because he's not holding his bodyweight, but the ref is fine with it. The ball spills loose, but bounce to Jalibert, who attempts to feed Penaud, but it's a rubbish pass and a worse catch and the ball goes down. This one was talked up as "a certain try" by a pundit or two, but Sleightholme has got him very well covered and we've got other cover coming across anyway, so it's not going on the counter. Big OllieS decides to emphasise that he had Penaud covered by continuing his run and giving him a an unnecessary little shouldercheck. I don't know if Penaud is the least bit intimidated, but the miniscuffle fires the crowd up and doesn't draw too much ire from the ref, so it's okay for the moment.
The scrum sets relatively quickly, but ends in an England free-kick as France drive early and Mitchell wisely decides not to put the ball in. Opportunity to clear our lines.
Minute 12: France opt for goal. Replay shows that Genge does stumble half a step forward as Dupont feigns to pass - it's marginal and a touch harsh, but the right call. In front of the posts and it should be 0-3, but Ramos somehow pulls it to the left.
Points left on the table: England 0 : 3 France
Minute 13: We kick the 22 drop-out just too long to compete and a rushing Freeman gets brutally murdered by Bielle-Biarrey's dancing feet. Thankfully, the rest of the kick chase line is solid and we bring him down on the 10m line. Our rush defence is up and we earn 8m by shutting down the first France move, but unfortunately the next phase we go high again on Meafou and he drags two tacklers 8m backwards.
France go wide and again Freeman is caught sticking too close and not trusting his inside men. He gets away with it by sprinting across to drag Ramos down, but he's lucky. Bielle-Biarrey takes the offload and tries to step inside, but Itoje is there to clear up. France attempt to charge it up again, but we blitz and tackle well, pushing them back behind the halfway line before Jalibert decides to kick. He does it badly and the ball ricochets off Slade's boot. It could go anywhere and comes very close to falling for Sleightholme to run in, but Ramos just gets back to save things and the French get around to prevent the steal.
Minute 14: France run another forward rumble to try and make ground, but England once again tackle low and well and stop it behind the gainline, so Dupont decides to caterpillar and box. It goes long to MSmith in good position again and this time, instead of sending Earl crashing up through the centre, he directs him to the wing, draws a defender with a run of his own, and then sends him crashing up there. Good tactic from England to permanently stage a big runner back with MSmith - didn't work perfectly with Genge the other year, but Earl is the ideal player for that role.
Quick ball, but our first phase is stopped on the gainline so FSmith does a pre-called grubber through - it is potentially on, but the Wonder Kid overhits it and it goes to Ramos rather than bouncing in no-man's land. Freeman and Lawrence on the chase both go in on the ballcarrier, which is poor play as he offloads and France are away on the counter. A particular note for Itoje here, who chases across to force Moefana sideways - the 12 is clearly hoping he can round Itoje and isolate the last man, but Itoje stays with him and keeps the defence connected with sheer effort. It won't go down as a tackle or an involvement, but he stops Moefana from straightening or cutting back inside and forces what could've been a linebreak (from another Freeman defensive mistake!) into a tamely contained ruck on the touchline that TCurry's unlucky not to steal.
France do have the ball though and our defence is at sixes and sevens. If we all drift, then we've got numbers covered, or if we all fly up, then France are there to be caught behind the gainline, but Slade's the only one flying up and he fails to catch Atonio before he can pop an offload away, giving Cros a charge up the middle. A good low tackle by TWillis takes his legs and a (just on the edge of legal height, but effective) tackle from Genge brings down the player taking the offload. France have made 20 metres and have quick ball though.
Minute 15: Earl is over the ball - I'd've called that off his feet because he's not holding his bodyweight, but the ref is fine with it. The ball spills loose, but bounce to Jalibert, who attempts to feed Penaud, but it's a rubbish pass and a worse catch and the ball goes down. This one was talked up as "a certain try" by a pundit or two, but Sleightholme has got him very well covered and we've got other cover coming across anyway, so it's not going on the counter. Big OllieS decides to emphasise that he had Penaud covered by continuing his run and giving him a an unnecessary little shouldercheck. I don't know if Penaud is the least bit intimidated, but the miniscuffle fires the crowd up and doesn't draw too much ire from the ref, so it's okay for the moment.
The scrum sets relatively quickly, but ends in an England free-kick as France drive early and Mitchell wisely decides not to put the ball in. Opportunity to clear our lines.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
Minute 16: We pump the ball high rather than going for touch and it's a great kick - Slade gets under it, but misses his slap-back, which is a real shame as we would've been swarming through. The ball goes off his hand, bounces off his head and we regather, so the ref comes back for the scrum.
Minute 17: England get the nudge on at the scrum and France inch backwards, but Dupont gets the ball out and into midfield. France attempt a couple of pull-backs and get to the outside channel, but England have drifted well and have things covered, so they kick low and long into the 22. MSmith does well to adapt from pressing up into the backline into coming back for the kick - Sleightholme has the kick covered on the pendulum, but it's a nice example of MSmith showing good decision-making at full-back. He then makes it even better by dummying the pop to Sleightholme, turning on a sixpence and stepping away from the French chaser - most full-backs retreating to pick up a low kick would've popped the ball up to the man coming forward, but Bielle-Biarrey has read that and is ready to obliterate Sleightholme, but is fooled entirely and is out of the play. MSmith zig-zags across the pitch, outflanking the French defence and Freeman is getting very excited that a break might be on, but the French chase is still very solid and Marcus makes the right call to kick just as he reaches the 22 and find touch just inside our half. That bit of decision-making saved us giving away a penalty on our 5m line (as Sleightholme was completely isolated) and clears our lines. Great work.
Minute 18: Mauvaka pulls a very nice bit of trickery - arguing with the touch judge about where he's supposed to be standing and then, mid-argument, flicking the ball under-handed to the front man in the French line. New law variations mean that it doesn't even have to pretend to be straight as England aren't contesting - not entirely sure how England are meant to contest considering there's no jump and it's almost thrown outside of the lineout (and not sure what in the letter of the law would stop him from actually passing it to the scrum-half there), but it is legal and I think that's an unintended consequence of the law variations.
France wang it into midfield and try running two phases, but there's no change out of the England defence, so Dupont box-kicks long - too long in fact, as it runs over the tryline. Mitchell considers touching it down, but realises the French chase is non-existent and so runs it back 15m before kicking down the tramlines. Dupont is back to field and feeds Jalibert inside, he feints one way and then comes back to attack the tramlines with Dupont on his shoulder. There's a 3-on-2, but England do well in defence - Mitchell tackles Jalibert and makes sure he stays down, while Sleightholme marks Dupont and then uses his pace to get outside to Penaud (who is running in front of Dupont and forcing a forward pass) when the pass goes. Penaud steps inside, but it's to where our cover defence now is and he has to go sideways to avoid being caught - he switches with Ramos...
Minute 19: ...who is also cutting back against the grain, but that's now two changes of direction which means they're heading the same way they were originally, and our defence is not fooled. Stuart makes a good tackle and Curry clamps in over the ball - possibly questionable if he released properly, but the ref rewards him and it's an England penalty.
FSmith kicks for touch and it's a very decent kick, landing just outside the 22. This is the first time that England have had any possession in the French half, after nearly a quarter of the match. Thankfully, the lineout works - LCD to Itoje quickly up at the front and straight down to Mitchell. The ball goes to midfield and we play a nice move - FSmith feigns like he's giving the short ball to TWillis, pulls it back to Earl running hard, who immediately offloads to Lawrence coming in off a 15 metre run-up. Unfortunately, the French midfield have read it like a book and Moefana meets Lawrence with a technically perfect tackle. Lawrence has carried well enough that he doesn't go backwards and doesn't lose the ball so we'll count that as a draw. It is also very quick ball and FSmith takes it to the line, dummies and draws a defender, to put Sleightholme through a half-gap - he's dragged down, but he makes metres and knocks the French back.
Minute 20: More quick ball and Mitchell has a little snipe before feeding TWillis who brushes off a Meafou tackle and nearly does the same to Cros - the Frenchman literally clings onto a leg to hold him up until more defenders can come. Mitchell snipes again and is impeded by an offside Meafou who also kills the ball at the ruck - possibly should've made more of a scene of being impeded there to win the penalty. The possession is now slow and FSmith decides against chucking it to his backline who are numbered up against, instead running hard himself and taking us up to 5m out.
This is where we need MSmith to impose himself - we've got numbers and space out left and FSmith is buried, but instead the forwards call for it and get it for two phases. Earl offloads to Lawrence, but Barassi does a good job of reading it and makes a meaty tackle before Lawrence can think of passing the ball, leaving him isolated. Genge has been hitting a lot of rucks and putting himself about a lot in this first 20 and, after a very hard passage of play, reacts to French jackalling by diving in off his feet like an exocet, giving Amashukeli an easy call for a French penalty. Shame.
Penaud comes around the ruck, picks up the ball and taps it a good 2 metres in front of the mark. While I'm howling at the television, he sprints at the backpedalling English defence and makes it up to the 22 before FSmith tackles him (and then rolls on the floor to avoid Itoje jackal). Itoje still gets on the ball and the referee puts his arm out and whistle to his mouth for an England penalty, but Itoje gets knocked backwards and rips the ball free as he does - because Penaud is still holding onto it, it goes flying in the air, which is a third penalty of this move, but because the ball has come free, Amashukeli plays on. Dupont catches the loose ball and attacks the left, running against backpedalling front row to draw Slade in before putting in a beautiful pass to hit Barassi at pace. France draw and give to keep the move going, but we've done a phenomenal job to get back and Mitchell is there covering to bring Bielle-Biarrey down on our 10m line. He offloads from the deck however to Ramos running through and we're then utterly broken. MSmith does well to force Ramos to make the pass, but it's going to Dupont on the wing who just has to outpace FSmith to scoooooore, and he drops it.
I'm not putting this one on the counter. Not because I don't think Dupont makes it - while there is a chance one of FSmith and MSmith catches him, I think it is highly unlikely if he catches it cleanly without having to change stride - but because there were three separate, incredibly obvious, penalty offences missed and it would've been an absolute travesty had it resulted in a try. Amashukeli had an absolutely belting game as referee overall and nobody's perfect, but this was not his best minute and I would've been incandescent had a try actually come from this. I don't expect that the TMO would've come back for "Decided to tap the penalty 2m in front of the mark so he was already ahead of most of the opposition" but they should do and it's my counter, so there.
Minute 17: England get the nudge on at the scrum and France inch backwards, but Dupont gets the ball out and into midfield. France attempt a couple of pull-backs and get to the outside channel, but England have drifted well and have things covered, so they kick low and long into the 22. MSmith does well to adapt from pressing up into the backline into coming back for the kick - Sleightholme has the kick covered on the pendulum, but it's a nice example of MSmith showing good decision-making at full-back. He then makes it even better by dummying the pop to Sleightholme, turning on a sixpence and stepping away from the French chaser - most full-backs retreating to pick up a low kick would've popped the ball up to the man coming forward, but Bielle-Biarrey has read that and is ready to obliterate Sleightholme, but is fooled entirely and is out of the play. MSmith zig-zags across the pitch, outflanking the French defence and Freeman is getting very excited that a break might be on, but the French chase is still very solid and Marcus makes the right call to kick just as he reaches the 22 and find touch just inside our half. That bit of decision-making saved us giving away a penalty on our 5m line (as Sleightholme was completely isolated) and clears our lines. Great work.
Minute 18: Mauvaka pulls a very nice bit of trickery - arguing with the touch judge about where he's supposed to be standing and then, mid-argument, flicking the ball under-handed to the front man in the French line. New law variations mean that it doesn't even have to pretend to be straight as England aren't contesting - not entirely sure how England are meant to contest considering there's no jump and it's almost thrown outside of the lineout (and not sure what in the letter of the law would stop him from actually passing it to the scrum-half there), but it is legal and I think that's an unintended consequence of the law variations.
France wang it into midfield and try running two phases, but there's no change out of the England defence, so Dupont box-kicks long - too long in fact, as it runs over the tryline. Mitchell considers touching it down, but realises the French chase is non-existent and so runs it back 15m before kicking down the tramlines. Dupont is back to field and feeds Jalibert inside, he feints one way and then comes back to attack the tramlines with Dupont on his shoulder. There's a 3-on-2, but England do well in defence - Mitchell tackles Jalibert and makes sure he stays down, while Sleightholme marks Dupont and then uses his pace to get outside to Penaud (who is running in front of Dupont and forcing a forward pass) when the pass goes. Penaud steps inside, but it's to where our cover defence now is and he has to go sideways to avoid being caught - he switches with Ramos...
Minute 19: ...who is also cutting back against the grain, but that's now two changes of direction which means they're heading the same way they were originally, and our defence is not fooled. Stuart makes a good tackle and Curry clamps in over the ball - possibly questionable if he released properly, but the ref rewards him and it's an England penalty.
FSmith kicks for touch and it's a very decent kick, landing just outside the 22. This is the first time that England have had any possession in the French half, after nearly a quarter of the match. Thankfully, the lineout works - LCD to Itoje quickly up at the front and straight down to Mitchell. The ball goes to midfield and we play a nice move - FSmith feigns like he's giving the short ball to TWillis, pulls it back to Earl running hard, who immediately offloads to Lawrence coming in off a 15 metre run-up. Unfortunately, the French midfield have read it like a book and Moefana meets Lawrence with a technically perfect tackle. Lawrence has carried well enough that he doesn't go backwards and doesn't lose the ball so we'll count that as a draw. It is also very quick ball and FSmith takes it to the line, dummies and draws a defender, to put Sleightholme through a half-gap - he's dragged down, but he makes metres and knocks the French back.
Minute 20: More quick ball and Mitchell has a little snipe before feeding TWillis who brushes off a Meafou tackle and nearly does the same to Cros - the Frenchman literally clings onto a leg to hold him up until more defenders can come. Mitchell snipes again and is impeded by an offside Meafou who also kills the ball at the ruck - possibly should've made more of a scene of being impeded there to win the penalty. The possession is now slow and FSmith decides against chucking it to his backline who are numbered up against, instead running hard himself and taking us up to 5m out.
This is where we need MSmith to impose himself - we've got numbers and space out left and FSmith is buried, but instead the forwards call for it and get it for two phases. Earl offloads to Lawrence, but Barassi does a good job of reading it and makes a meaty tackle before Lawrence can think of passing the ball, leaving him isolated. Genge has been hitting a lot of rucks and putting himself about a lot in this first 20 and, after a very hard passage of play, reacts to French jackalling by diving in off his feet like an exocet, giving Amashukeli an easy call for a French penalty. Shame.
Penaud comes around the ruck, picks up the ball and taps it a good 2 metres in front of the mark. While I'm howling at the television, he sprints at the backpedalling English defence and makes it up to the 22 before FSmith tackles him (and then rolls on the floor to avoid Itoje jackal). Itoje still gets on the ball and the referee puts his arm out and whistle to his mouth for an England penalty, but Itoje gets knocked backwards and rips the ball free as he does - because Penaud is still holding onto it, it goes flying in the air, which is a third penalty of this move, but because the ball has come free, Amashukeli plays on. Dupont catches the loose ball and attacks the left, running against backpedalling front row to draw Slade in before putting in a beautiful pass to hit Barassi at pace. France draw and give to keep the move going, but we've done a phenomenal job to get back and Mitchell is there covering to bring Bielle-Biarrey down on our 10m line. He offloads from the deck however to Ramos running through and we're then utterly broken. MSmith does well to force Ramos to make the pass, but it's going to Dupont on the wing who just has to outpace FSmith to scoooooore, and he drops it.
I'm not putting this one on the counter. Not because I don't think Dupont makes it - while there is a chance one of FSmith and MSmith catches him, I think it is highly unlikely if he catches it cleanly without having to change stride - but because there were three separate, incredibly obvious, penalty offences missed and it would've been an absolute travesty had it resulted in a try. Amashukeli had an absolutely belting game as referee overall and nobody's perfect, but this was not his best minute and I would've been incandescent had a try actually come from this. I don't expect that the TMO would've come back for "Decided to tap the penalty 2m in front of the mark so he was already ahead of most of the opposition" but they should do and it's my counter, so there.
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
I'm loving the not at all obvious confirmation that M Smith is a natural born 15
.
Great stuff

Great stuff
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Re: England vs France - minute-by-minute
Are you claiming I have an agenda?

At present though, I'm baffled at pundits/casuals/Stephen Jones who claim he was a disaster. Not a single sliver of that so far.
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