1ST TEST

[Oakboy]

When's the team announced? What's the injury list?

[BaldiePete]

No idea when the team will be announced except that it will be before 11am (UK time) on Thursday. Injuries include Cowan-Dickie, Kinghorn, Ringrose & Hansen. I’ve not heard of any others.

[Banquo]

When's the team announced? What's the injury list?

For someone who professes to detest the 'jamboree'

Funnily enough, this is the first time I've been relatively unexcited by a Lions tour.

[Oakboy]

When's the team announced? What's the injury list?

For someone who professes to detest the 'jamboree'

Funnily enough, this is the first time I've been relatively unexcited by a Lions tour.

Oh, I haven't changed my mind about the Lions but I thought I'd try switching on to it this once. I assume your apathy relates to the opposition???

If I was picking the England XV for the first AI and was offered any of the Lions tourists to improve our team, I'm not sure who I'd choose - maybe the Scottish FH and centres. I imagine an Irish fan would make similar claims on different personnel. That's the bit I still fail to understand. Yes, the Lions are a half-decent watch but it cannot compare with watching England for me. I want us to compete with any team in the world, not gang up with others to try to match the SH wonder-boys.

The Farrell call-up is testing me. If he walks on to the pitch in any test my TV is most unlikely to stay on.

[Banquo]

When's the team announced? What's the injury list?

For someone who professes to detest the 'jamboree'

Funnily enough, this is the first time I've been relatively unexcited by a Lions tour.

Oh, I haven't changed my mind about the Lions but I thought I'd try switching on to it this once. I assume your apathy relates to the opposition???

If I was picking the England XV for the first AI and was offered any of the Lions tourists to improve our team, I'm not sure who I'd choose - maybe the Scottish FH and centres. I imagine an Irish fan would make similar claims on different personnel. That's the bit I still fail to understand. Yes, the Lions are a half-decent watch but it cannot compare with watching England for me. I want us to compete with any team in the world, not gang up with others to try to match the SH wonder-boys.

The Farrell call-up is testing me. If he walks on to the pitch in any test my TV is most unlikely to stay on.

Provincial opposition, Farrell call up a bit.

The fans love the lions trip and players still see it as a career high point.

[francoisfou]

When's the team announced? What's the injury list?

tours

For someone who professes to detest the 'jamboree'

Funnily enough, this is the first time I've been relatively unexcited by a Lions tour.

My interest level is definitely lower than past tours - the 1997 one in particular, when I had the privilege of attending two games, including the 2nd Test in Durban that clinched the series.
I’ve difficulty in accepting the selection of the southern hemisphere players, the omission of the Willis brothers and Darcy Graham, and lastly the inexplicable call-up of the out of form Owen Farrell.
However, I’ll still try and watch the first and third Tests. No chance of watching the second as I’ll be somewhere on the road between Calais and Toulouse!

[Cameo]

Okay, here's my prediction of the team:

1. Genge
2. Sheehan
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. McCarthy
6. Chessum
7. Morgan
8. Conan
9. Gibson-Park
10. Russell
11. Freeman
12. Tuipoluto
13. Jones
14. Lowe
15. Keenan
16. Porter
17. Kelleher
18. Stuart
19. Pollock
20. Earl
21. Mitchell
22. M Smith
23. Aki

I think I'm pretty onboard with that if that's the case. I think people will be surprised if no Farrell but seems such a waste if M Smith already had to be on the bench to cover full back. Could put Farrell for Aki, but I suspect he will want Aki's impact if he's not starting.

This is all assuming it is too soon to parachute Darcy Graham in!

[twitchy]

Distant cousins?

[Oakboy]

Okay, here's my prediction of the team:

1. Genge
2. Sheehan
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. McCarthy
6. Chessum
7. Morgan
8. Conan
9. Gibson-Park
10. Russell
11. Freeman
12. Tuipoluto
13. Jones
14. Lowe
15. Keenan
16. Porter
17. Kelleher
18. Stuart
19. Pollock
20. Earl
21. Mitchell
22. M Smith
23. Aki

I think I'm pretty onboard with that if that's the case. I think people will be surprised if no Farrell but seems such a waste if M Smith already had to be on the bench to cover full back. Could put Farrell for Aki, but I suspect he will want Aki's impact if he's not starting.

This is all assuming it is too soon to parachute Darcy Graham in!

Pretty close, I'd guess. Question marks in Farrell's choice could hover over McCarthy (Beirne?) and Morgan (VDF?). That could lead to queries over both Earl and Pollock on the bench perhaps.

Other than the mobility of the back row it's a decent team.

[Galfon]

Okay, here's my prediction of the team:

1. Genge
2. Sheehan
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. McCarthy
6. Chessum
7. Morgan
8. Conan
9. Gibson-Park
10. Russell
11. Freeman
12. Tuipoluto
13. Jones
14. Lowe
15. Keenan
16. Porter
17. Kelleher
18. Stuart
19. Pollock
20. Earl
21. Mitchell
22. M Smith
23. Aki

I think I'm pretty onboard with that if that's the case. I think people will be surprised if no Farrell but seems such a waste if M Smith already had to be on the bench to cover full back. Could put Farrell for Aki, but I suspect he will want Aki's impact if he's not starting.

This is all assuming it is too soon to parachute Darcy Graham in!

Won't be far off, though SmithF as 10 cover ideally, and Lowe / Freeman would be 11/14 (left/right) for sure.

[Cameo]

Apparently Farrell is not on the bench (M Smith is) and Curry is in the team.

[Banquo]

Okay, here's my prediction of the team:

1. Genge
2. Sheehan
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. McCarthy
6. Chessum
7. Morgan
8. Conan
9. Gibson-Park
10. Russell
11. Freeman
12. Tuipoluto
13. Jones
14. Lowe
15. Keenan
16. Porter
17. Kelleher
18. Stuart
19. Pollock
20. Earl
21. Mitchell
22. M Smith
23. Aki

I think I'm pretty onboard with that if that's the case. I think people will be surprised if no Farrell but seems such a waste if M Smith already had to be on the bench to cover full back. Could put Farrell for Aki, but I suspect he will want Aki's impact if he's not starting.

This is all assuming it is too soon to parachute Darcy Graham in!

Pretty close, I'd guess. Question marks in Farrell's choice could hover over McCarthy (Beirne?) and Morgan (VDF?). That could lead to queries over both Earl and Pollock on the bench perhaps.

Other than the mobility of the back row it's a decent team.

McCarthy has been excellent, and Beirne…. hasn’t..

[Banquo]

Okay, here's my prediction of the team:

1. Genge
2. Sheehan
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. McCarthy
6. Chessum
7. Morgan
8. Conan
9. Gibson-Park
10. Russell
11. Freeman
12. Tuipoluto
13. Jones
14. Lowe
15. Keenan
16. Porter
17. Kelleher
18. Stuart
19. Pollock
20. Earl
21. Mitchell
22. M Smith
23. Aki

I think I'm pretty onboard with that if that's the case. I think people will be surprised if no Farrell but seems such a waste if M Smith already had to be on the bench to cover full back. Could put Farrell for Aki, but I suspect he will want Aki's impact if he's not starting.

This is all assuming it is too soon to parachute Darcy Graham in!

Pretty much onboard with that. I’m too lazy to think about the backs bench and permutations. Marcus looks short on confidence and I’d be pretty worried if he had to play 15 if Keenan got crocked early.

[BaldiePete]

Apparently Farrell is not on the bench (M Smith is) and Curry is in the team.

Reported in the Torygraph. Also Beirne at 6, Curry at 7. Pollock not in 23. No mention of other positions.

“ Yet the biggest surprise is that Farrell will not be involved in the Lions squad against the Wallabies, barring any late injuries in training on Wednesday.”


https://archive.ph/smWcK

[Which Tyler]

Apparently Farrell is not on the bench (M Smith is) and Curry is in the team.

Depends which "Apparently" you believe - Irish Times has Owen and Marcus both on the bench

[Banquo]

Apparently Farrell is not on the bench (M Smith is) and Curry is in the team.

Reported in the Torygraph. Also Beirne at 6, Curry at 7.

I'd hate that

[Banquo]

Apparently Farrell is not on the bench (M Smith is) and Curry is in the team.

Depends which "Apparently" you believe - Irish Times has Owen and Marcus both on the bench

and that

[Mikey Brown]

The Farrell ‘discourse’ is painful from every angle, to be honest. It shouldn’t really be much of a conversation but it gets clicks/comments and that’s all that matters.

I don’t actually think F Smith has been much better than M Smith, if at all. He’s had more time at 10 but only covers that position. You don’t get the sense Jones or Freeman are getting much time at club or country as fullbacks anymore.

7 is tough. Morgan has been fantastic, Curry seems to be the breakdown king on attacking ball - despite looking far from his sharpest in other areas - and JVDF seems to be doing a mountain of unseen nitty gritty. Curry is still fast in a straight line but agree he looks a bit cumbersome with all that weight on, certainly in a backrow alongside Chessum and Conan.

Pollock is fun and all, but unless he can play fullback as well I don’t think I’d be picking him. Despite everything Earl does I just can’t take him seriously.

[Banquo]

The Farrell ‘discourse’ is painful from every angle, to be honest. It shouldn’t really be much of a conversation but it gets clicks/comments and that’s all that matters.

I don’t actually think F Smith has been much better than M Smith, if at all. He’s had more time at 10 but only covers that position. You don’t get the sense Jones or Freeman are getting much time at club or country as fullbacks anymore.

7 is tough. Morgan has been fantastic, Curry seems to be the breakdown king on attacking ball - despite looking far from his sharpest in other areas - and JVDF seems to be doing a mountain of unseen nitty gritty. Curry is still fast in a straight line but agree he looks a bit cumbersome with all that weight on, certainly in a backrow alongside Chessum and Conan.

Pollock is fun and all, but unless he can play fullback as well I don’t think I’d be picking him. Despite everything Earl does I just can’t take him seriously.

Faz is a sideshow, agreed
Think Fin Smith has actually had a pretty unfair rap all round- I think he's been fine in scratch sides, taking it to the line, trying to bring others into the game and defending well. Marcus has been pretty ropy for me tbh, missed pen kicks to touch etc....and looked out of place at 15. His confidence looks shot. We are though a bit stuffed for bench cover....Marcus with an hour at 15 would be terrifying tbh as we know they'll target the backfield. He's been ok -ish at 10, but when he replaced Fin at 10 had the same problems.
Agreed on back row, tho Morgan was poor v Argentina been good since. Curry is struggling imo, his hip is in bits.

Earl and Pollock are a conundrum; for all Earl is a dick, he can make significant dents; Pollock again is being called out unfairly for not doing the bits and pieces...which he actually is doing. The fun is what is remembered and unfortunately seems to be defining him in a negative way with some- interesting to see him being used in the lineout. But like you not sure I'd pick him.

[pjm1]

With the forwards, the Lions coaches have access to masses of performance data and know the tactics they are asking the players to perform to. I’m confident that their selections will be based on that.

Interestingly, in the “for the love of the game” podcast, Youngs and Cole talk a lot about the decisions being separated from execution - and focusing on the former re: analysis and ratings. Ultimately though, its outcomes that matter - so when it comes to test time we need to be picking player who make the right decisions and execute on them.

For backs and the subs in particular it’s more of a lottery. Outside of 9, we shouldn’t *need* to replace anyone except for injury… so the quality of replacements is largely down to luck on who (if) is injured. There’s always a trade in picking the subs even when you have a 5:3.

[Banquo]

With the forwards, the Lions coaches have access to masses of performance data and know the tactics they are asking the players to perform to. I’m confident that their selections will be based on that.

Interestingly, in the “for the love of the game” podcast, Youngs and Cole talk a lot about the decisions being separated from execution - and focusing on the former re: analysis and ratings. Ultimately though, its outcomes that matter - so when it comes to test time we need to be picking player who make the right decisions and execute on them.

For backs and the subs in particular it’s more of a lottery. Outside of 9, we shouldn’t *need* to replace anyone except for injury… so the quality of replacements is largely down to luck on who (if) is injured. There’s always a trade in picking the subs even when you have a 5:3.

....where its close, they'll go with something else though. Experience, familiarity one would think; that would have to be the case IF Beirne and Curry start...neither of their headline stats (especially turnovers look great). Experience and familiarity would be a big factor in decision making, that said. Its those micro decisions that make the difference at the next level from the provincial games its true.

Agreed on backs to some extent, though if your goal kicker is having a sh=t day, or you want to close out the game etc....but with 3 you are perforce compromising. Which makes 6:2 a bit daft logically- unless you are a forward

[Which Tyler]

Interestingly, in the “for the love of the game” podcast, Youngs and Cole talk a lot about the decisions being separated from execution - and focusing on the former re: analysis and ratings. Ultimately though, its outcomes that matter - so when it comes to test time we need to be picking player who make the right decisions and execute on them.

And we're back to why coaches love Farrell - he will always make the play that the playbook says - he'll even attempt to if it's beyond his actual capabilities skill-wise.
If the playbook says that in this phase of play, in this quarter of the game, in this position on the pitch, the balkl is kicked high, to land 10m out from the R touchline, 23m out from the tryline; then that's what he'll do - 5 on 2 overlap with half the width of the pitch be damned!
The coaches see him making the decision he was told to; the fans see it being the wrong decision (and poorly executed even then)

[Danno]

Interestingly, in the “for the love of the game” podcast, Youngs and Cole talk a lot about the decisions being separated from execution - and focusing on the former re: analysis and ratings. Ultimately though, its outcomes that matter - so when it comes to test time we need to be picking player who make the right decisions and execute on them.

And we're back to why coaches love Farrell - he will always make the play that the playbook says - he'll even attempt to if it's beyond his actual capabilities skill-wise.
If the playbook says that in this phase of play, in this quarter of the game, in this position on the pitch, the balkl is kicked high, to land 10m out from the R touchline, 23m out from the tryline; then that's what he'll do - 5 on 2 overlap with half the width of the pitch be damned!
The coaches see him making the decision he was told to; the fans see it being the wrong decision (and poorly executed even then)

Which begs the question about the quality of the coaches. When people like Vesty, Blackett et al are letting their charges play heads up, why are international coaches so obsessed with immovable structures (sorry I've gone a smidge Dors there)

[Mikey Brown]

The Farrell ‘discourse’ is painful from every angle, to be honest. It shouldn’t really be much of a conversation but it gets clicks/comments and that’s all that matters.

I don’t actually think F Smith has been much better than M Smith, if at all. He’s had more time at 10 but only covers that position. You don’t get the sense Jones or Freeman are getting much time at club or country as fullbacks anymore.

7 is tough. Morgan has been fantastic, Curry seems to be the breakdown king on attacking ball - despite looking far from his sharpest in other areas - and JVDF seems to be doing a mountain of unseen nitty gritty. Curry is still fast in a straight line but agree he looks a bit cumbersome with all that weight on, certainly in a backrow alongside Chessum and Conan.

Pollock is fun and all, but unless he can play fullback as well I don’t think I’d be picking him. Despite everything Earl does I just can’t take him seriously.

Faz is a sideshow, agreed
Think Fin Smith has actually had a pretty unfair rap all round- I think he's been fine in scratch sides, taking it to the line, trying to bring others into the game and defending well. Marcus has been pretty ropy for me tbh, missed pen kicks to touch etc....and looked out of place at 15. His confidence looks shot. We are though a bit stuffed for bench cover....Marcus with an hour at 15 would be terrifying tbh as we know they'll target the backfield. He's been ok -ish at 10, but when he replaced Fin at 10 had the same problems.
Agreed on back row, tho Morgan was poor v Argentina been good since. Curry is struggling imo, his hip is in bits.

Earl and Pollock are a conundrum; for all Earl is a dick, he can make significant dents; Pollock again is being called out unfairly for not doing the bits and pieces...which he actually is doing. The fun is what is remembered and unfortunately seems to be defining him in a negative way with some- interesting to see him being used in the lineout. But like you not sure I'd pick him.

Yeah, I didn’t necessarily even mean that as a dig against Earl, he has proven a lot of doubters wrong over the last couple of years, but still seems caught between expectations of a 7 and an 8 - or at the least requires a different sort of backrow balance.

I’m not sure where or what specific criticisms of Pollock you mean. I’m hoping there isn’t too much open negativity about him in the general media, beyond being called flash and arrogant (which I’m sure isn’t new for him), but I haven’t seen it. I’m simply saying he’s behind these 3 established (borderline world class) flankers in the core of the role - and that’s no attack on him.

His stats (beyond the flash) are impressive in lots of ways, my main reservation is still mostly his approach of trying to stay on his feet in the tackle. It’s brilliant for turnovers (and assisting tackle stats) if someone is taking the man down, but I might want a more dominant hitter if Australia are still building their game around Valetini, Skelton, Wilson, Ikitau etc. hitting it up in quick succession.

Is there something specific about Curry that makes you say it’s his hip? Obviously that’s the biggest/latest injury concern for him, but feels like he’s always got various niggles. He was so good in the 6 nations that I forgot how recent that hip reconstruction was.

[Banquo]

The Farrell ‘discourse’ is painful from every angle, to be honest. It shouldn’t really be much of a conversation but it gets clicks/comments and that’s all that matters.

I don’t actually think F Smith has been much better than M Smith, if at all. He’s had more time at 10 but only covers that position. You don’t get the sense Jones or Freeman are getting much time at club or country as fullbacks anymore.

7 is tough. Morgan has been fantastic, Curry seems to be the breakdown king on attacking ball - despite looking far from his sharpest in other areas - and JVDF seems to be doing a mountain of unseen nitty gritty. Curry is still fast in a straight line but agree he looks a bit cumbersome with all that weight on, certainly in a backrow alongside Chessum and Conan.

Pollock is fun and all, but unless he can play fullback as well I don’t think I’d be picking him. Despite everything Earl does I just can’t take him seriously.

Faz is a sideshow, agreed
Think Fin Smith has actually had a pretty unfair rap all round- I think he's been fine in scratch sides, taking it to the line, trying to bring others into the game and defending well. Marcus has been pretty ropy for me tbh, missed pen kicks to touch etc....and looked out of place at 15. His confidence looks shot. We are though a bit stuffed for bench cover....Marcus with an hour at 15 would be terrifying tbh as we know they'll target the backfield. He's been ok -ish at 10, but when he replaced Fin at 10 had the same problems.
Agreed on back row, tho Morgan was poor v Argentina been good since. Curry is struggling imo, his hip is in bits.

Earl and Pollock are a conundrum; for all Earl is a dick, he can make significant dents; Pollock again is being called out unfairly for not doing the bits and pieces...which he actually is doing. The fun is what is remembered and unfortunately seems to be defining him in a negative way with some- interesting to see him being used in the lineout. But like you not sure I'd pick him.

Yeah, I didn’t necessarily even mean that as a dig against Earl, he has proven a lot of doubters wrong over the last couple of years, but still seems caught between expectations of a 7 and an 8 - or at the least requires a different sort of backrow balance.

I’m not sure where or what specific criticisms of Pollock you mean. I’m hoping there isn’t too much open negativity about him in the general media, beyond being called flash and arrogant (which I’m sure isn’t new for him), but I haven’t seen it. I’m simply saying he’s behind these 3 established (borderline world class) flankers in the core of the role - and that’s no attack on him.

His stats (beyond the flash) are impressive in lots of ways, my main reservation is still mostly his approach of trying to stay on his feet in the tackle. It’s brilliant for turnovers (and assisting tackle stats) if someone is taking the man down, but I might want a more dominant hitter if Australia are still building their game around Valetini, Skelton, Wilson, Ikitau etc. hitting it up in quick succession.

Is there something specific about Curry that makes you say it’s his hip? Obviously that’s the biggest/latest injury concern for him, but feels like he’s always got various niggles. He was so good in the 6 nations that I forgot how recent that hip reconstruction was.

I mean the spectrum of raving about his flash stuff with no mention of how good the rest of his game is, all the way to the very obvious 'he's crap and too flash' from the likes of Stephen Jones (I know....but very negative; gave him a 4 out of 10, when he'd played really well). There's not much balance in how he's talked about. He's very good, but much like you've done (and very fairly, to be clear), he's critiqued for what he can't do (and I think he knows that sometimes a big hit won't work yet for him- he's still hardening physically, and isn't huge) or overly praised. Suspect the word on Curry and Beirne is driven by similar fears to yours- tho imo both of them have been poor as before

Curry is just broken, he's being rehabbed hip wise from game to game. Its pretty well known in the Prem.