2ND. TEST

[Spiffy]

The bloke I feel for in all of this is poor old Marcus Smith who has really been bugggered about and not given much of a chance to show his stuff at 10. Only two games left and he won't get another run. Probably wishing he'd stayed at home.
Fin Smith has looked sound and reliable enough, but nothing special and a bit dull. Faz has upset the apple cart for both.
I hope Russell stays fit until the end of the tour. If the Lions are sitting on a good lead he will be subbed off to provide a bit of glory for Faz.

[Sandydragon]

Do you think your mates who are there will be happy with (just) wins against this Aussie team? Just asking as I'd expect to be entertained against them.

Ones man’s lack of entertainment is another man’s win. What entertains you? Sports about winning, if you support a side. I’d take England winning the World Cup 3-0 in every game.

Yes, simple answer.

I think I want attractive play when the opposition is relatively weak. The reds are capable of fielding a team that can play attractive rugby without fear of not winning. Obviously, against SA or NZ it would be different. Of course, this coaching crew might not be able to deliver anything other than a functional showing.

I agree about your England comment.

The difference is that the Lions are supposed to be some sort of elite step up, aren't they? Arguably, on paper they would be ranked above the current No 1 in the world whereas Aus are 7th or whatever.

Would they be no 1 in the world? On paper perhaps there’s an argument, although south Africa would have a few words about that. But as a team, they will never be as cohesive as a national side due to the tour length. Any coach who wants to execute a complex game plan will probably fail.

[Which Tyler]

IMO, winning is the most important thing, but it's not the only thing.
If it was, we'd applaud bloodgate, poaching, doping (chemical or financial), Rassie fuckwittery, etc etc.

But... this is the Lions. It's about more than just the results; it's also about the romance. If it's just another match, then its reason for existing has gone.

The Lions is a scratch side, made up of the best that 4 nations can provide. There's no-one on tour (from the beginning) who isn't there on merit. No-one who's a big drop off from the contenders. It's not like Morgan (or Hogg on previous tours) is a DEI hire who's got no business sharing a rugby pitch with these luminaries.

It's also a scratch team; even after 5-6 weeks together.
I've usually got no patience for "pick on form" - because when you have time, you appreciate the form is temporary and class is permanent, and you trust to come good at some point. But in a scratch team, with minimal drop-off in class, form actually matters.
Personally, I'd say that class gets you on the tour. Once there, everyone starts from zero - form gets you in the test team.
I also get that that's a tough mindset to ask of a professional coach who's accustomed to trusting the class to shine through in time.

If we're going to have quotas, then they should be very low (1 from each nation in the 23); but having a spread of nations should be part of deciding between 2 very closely matched players. Form > Balance > Nationality > Class.

[Big D]

Kinghorn can kick if need be. Has done so for Toulouse.

From what I can see he’s converted 10 P/C this season so not a frontline kicker nor necessarily someone you’d want taking pressure kicks in a test.

In any case you’d also have to use two back subs to cover one injury.

Kinghorn only kicks for Toulouse when Ramos isn’t playing and he is definitely not a reliable kicker. He missed a few easy ones when Edinburgh experimented playing him at 10 and similarly for Scotland. He played at 10 against Australia in an out of window international and had a fairly simple penalty to win the match with the last kick but he missed it.

Since then he has kicked in massive games for Toulouse successfully when needed. He'd be fine if called upon IMO.

[Spiffy]

So Faz can't take place kicks any more for fear of injuring himself. So he's obviously not fully fit.
But what a clever ploy - this way he can't be blamed for missing any. But you know he might be courageous and selfless enough to attempt a match-winning but self-crippling sitter under the posts on full time.

[Danno]

So Faz can't take place kicks any more for fear of injuring himself. So he's obviously not fully fit.
But what a clever ploy - this way he can't be blamed for missing any. But you know he might be courageous and selfless enough to attempt a match-winning but self-crippling sitter under the posts on full time.

Is there a source for this please?

[Mikey Brown]

So Faz can't take place kicks any more for fear of injuring himself. So he's obviously not fully fit.
But what a clever ploy - this way he can't be blamed for missing any. But you know he might be courageous and selfless enough to attempt a match-winning but self-crippling sitter under the posts on full time.

That would be the ultimate. Like Bruce Willis at the end of that film where they blow up mars or whatever it is.

[Mikey Brown]

Armageddon. That’s the one.

[paddy no 11]

I think it was called the bus that couldn't slow down

[Banquo]

IMO, winning is the most important thing, but it's not the only thing.
If it was, we'd applaud bloodgate, poaching, doping (chemical or financial), Rassie fuckwittery, etc etc.

But... this is the Lions. It's about more than just the results; it's also about the romance. If it's just another match, then its reason for existing has gone.

The Lions is a scratch side, made up of the best that 4 nations can provide. There's no-one on tour (from the beginning) who isn't there on merit. No-one who's a big drop off from the contenders. It's not like Morgan (or Hogg on previous tours) is a DEI hire who's got no business sharing a rugby pitch with these luminaries.

It's also a scratch team; even after 5-6 weeks together.
I've usually got no patience for "pick on form" - because when you have time, you appreciate the form is temporary and class is permanent, and you trust to come good at some point. But in a scratch team, with minimal drop-off in class, form actually matters.
Personally, I'd say that class gets you on the tour. Once there, everyone starts from zero - form gets you in the test team.
I also get that that's a tough mindset to ask of a professional coach who's accustomed to trusting the class to shine through in time.

If we're going to have quotas, then they should be very low (1 from each nation in the 23); but having a spread of nations should be part of deciding between 2 very closely matched players. Form > Balance > Nationality > Class.

Of course no sport is win at all costs, but that is what they are there to do, and the romance comes from being the best of the best of B and I, and a coach putting this together to achieve the win. So agreed!
Where it gets denatured is the convenience call ups, but pragmatism trumps romance here

[Banquo]

So Faz can't take place kicks any more for fear of injuring himself. So he's obviously not fully fit.
But what a clever ploy - this way he can't be blamed for missing any. But you know he might be courageous and selfless enough to attempt a match-winning but self-crippling sitter under the posts on full time.

Is there a source for this please?

He was nursing his groin in the latter days at Racing and has had to do so before in his career.

[BaldiePete]

From what I can see he’s converted 10 P/C this season so not a frontline kicker nor necessarily someone you’d want taking pressure kicks in a test.

In any case you’d also have to use two back subs to cover one injury.

Kinghorn only kicks for Toulouse when Ramos isn’t playing and he is definitely not a reliable kicker. He missed a few easy ones when Edinburgh experimented playing him at 10 and similarly for Scotland. He played at 10 against Australia in an out of window international and had a fairly simple penalty to win the match with the last kick but he missed it.

Since then he has kicked in massive games for Toulouse successfully when needed. He'd be fine if called upon IMO.

That’s fair. Every aspect of his game has improved since he signed for Toulouse. Proper competition for places can do that to a player.

[francoisfou]

From what I can see he’s converted 10 P/C this season so not a frontline kicker nor necessarily someone you’d want taking pressure kicks in a test.

In any case you’d also have to use two back subs to cover one injury.

Kinghorn only kicks for Toulouse when Ramos isn’t playing and he is definitely not a reliable kicker. He missed a few easy ones when Edinburgh experimented playing him at 10 and similarly for Scotland. He played at 10 against Australia in an out of window international and had a fairly simple penalty to win the match with the last kick but he missed it.

Since then he has kicked in massive games for Toulouse successfully when needed. He'd be fine if called upon IMO.

Indeed he has and would be.
He’s become a fixture in Toulouse’s first choice XV and has developed a big-match temperament.

[Oakboy]

Ones man’s lack of entertainment is another man’s win. What entertains you? Sports about winning, if you support a side. I’d take England winning the World Cup 3-0 in every game.

Yes, simple answer.

I think I want attractive play when the opposition is relatively weak. The reds are capable of fielding a team that can play attractive rugby without fear of not winning. Obviously, against SA or NZ it would be different. Of course, this coaching crew might not be able to deliver anything other than a functional showing.

I agree about your England comment.

The difference is that the Lions are supposed to be some sort of elite step up, aren't they? Arguably, on paper they would be ranked above the current No 1 in the world whereas Aus are 7th or whatever.

Would they be no 1 in the world? On paper perhaps there’s an argument, although south Africa would have a few words about that. But as a team, they will never be as cohesive as a national side due to the tour length. Any coach who wants to execute a complex game plan will probably fail.

In the build up to THIS match, would you say that the Australian XV can be expected to be more cohesive than the Lions? Recent results, the Irish representation and AustraIia's ranking suggest otherwise, I'd have thought.

I suppose losing the Scottish centre pairing will not help but it's marginal. Extra Aussie physicality might disrupt but beyond that??

[paddy no 11]

Those aus half backs were at nothing last week, can't believe they've been retained...........would need a serious turn around from them to reach integrated status

[p/d]

Those aus half backs were at nothing last week, can't believe they've been retained...........would need a serious turn around from them to reach integrated status

This.

Though great to see Valetini back. Cracking player to watch

[pompey-zebra]

Those aus half backs were at nothing last week, can't believe they've been retained...........would need a serious turn around from them to reach integrated status

This.

Though great to see Valetini back. Cracking player to watch

Perhaps Schmidt thinks they'll have a better platform to play off this week with Valetini and Skelton back.

[p/d]

Those aus half backs were at nothing last week, can't believe they've been retained...........would need a serious turn around from them to reach integrated status

This.

Though great to see Valetini back. Cracking player to watch

Perhaps Schmidt thinks they'll have a better platform to play off this week with Valetini and Skelton back.

Yep. Let’s hope so. Plus Lynagh with first cap out of the way might relax into the tempo better

[Galfon]

..
Yep. Let’s hope so. Plus Lynagh with first cap out of the way might relax into the tempo better

Thought Lynagh settled ok in 2nd half when on front foot when BIL dropped off - did look bit on the slight side ( in fact is same height/wt. as Eng. best FH just back from Americas, so will probs. suffer same fate in selection..) Considered to be a tough character having said that.

[Banquo]

..
Yep. Let’s hope so. Plus Lynagh with first cap out of the way might relax into the tempo better

Thought Lynagh settled ok in 2nd half when on front foot when BIL dropped off - did look bit on the slight side ( in fact is same height/wt. as Eng. best FH just back from Americas, so will probs. suffer same fate in selection..) Considered to be a tough character having said that.

Be surprised if Tom got 100 + caps tbh. Mind I was surprised that Ford has only started in about 2/3 of his caps.

[Donny osmond]

One day I'll make it to a Lions game, and I guess going to the MCG would be as good as it gets.

What would be your ultimate Lions venue?

[twitchy]

Old man grumble - List the kick-off time at the actual time.

[twitchy]

Coss of the toin.

[Donny osmond]

Early signs are ... not good for the Lions, to say the least. Aus are full of intent and energy and the Lions haven't got out of 2nd gear

6 - 0

[Donny osmond]

Better few minutes for bil

5 - 6