AIs squad announced

[FKAS]

Ilione apparently out of the squad injured as well. Puja, you jinxy git.

England squad
Forwards
Fin Baxter (Harlequins)
Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Coles (Northampton Saints)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Sale Sharks)
Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Theo Dan (Saracens)
Ben Earl (Saracens)
Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens)
Jack Kenningham (Harlequins)
Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale Sharks)
Guy Pepper (Bath Rugby)
Henry Pollock (Northampton Saints)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)

Backs
Henry Arundell (Bath Rugby)
Noah Caluori (Saracens)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints)
Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (Exeter Chiefs)
George Ford (Sale Sharks)
Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints)
Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints)
Cadan Murley (Harlequins)
Max Ojomoh (Bath Rugby)
Raffi Quirke (Sale Sharks)
Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Fin Smith (Northampton Saints)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins)
Ben Spencer (Bath Rugby)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers)

[Mikey Brown]

Tom Curry is fit?!

[Puja]

Radwan dropped, and replaced by Caluori being promoted from apprentics to being a full part of the squad. Wild, especially after the game Radwan put in at the weekend, but obviously Caluori did something special in the training camps.

Kenningham sneaking in out of nowhere as well, as a replacement for Rodd. Still no Dombrandt, despite the Ilione injury. Can't believe TCurry's actually fit, is he?

Puja

[Puja]

Ilione apparently out of the squad injured as well. Puja, you jinxy git.

He didn't come off injured during the game - that one's not on me!

Surprised FSmith's not concussed after the weekend tbh.

Puja

[Puja]

Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears)
Fin Baxter (Harlequins)

Luke Cowan-Dickie (Sale Sharks)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Theo Dan (Saracens)

Will Stuart (Bath Rugby)
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers)
Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale Sharks)

Maro Itoje (Saracens)
Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Coles (Northampton Saints)
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens)

Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Ben Earl (Saracens)
Jack Kenningham (Harlequins)
Guy Pepper (Bath Rugby)
Henry Pollock (Northampton Saints)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)



Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints)
Ben Spencer (Bath Rugby)
Raffi Quirke (Sale Sharks)

George Ford (Sale Sharks)
Fin Smith (Northampton Saints)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins)

Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints)
Max Ojomoh (Bath Rugby)
Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)

Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (Exeter Chiefs)
Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints)
Henry Arundell (Bath Rugby)
Noah Caluori (Saracens)
Cadan Murley (Harlequins)
Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks)

Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers)

[fivepointer]

Calouri is a bit of a surprise. A really bold selection to be fair to SB. Ilione is desperately unlucky but i think Kenningham is a good pick. Not convinced by Dan as our 3rd hooker, nor Isiekwe. 6 wings is one or two too many. Tom Curry continues to defy all logic and comes in out of nowhere.

[Captainhaircut]

Going to be nervy few weeks because depth at loosehead, hooker, lock, scrum half and full back is very poor.

Team from that for 1st test? Maybe the below. Think Underhill has to start with instructions to end Valentini any time he gets the ball.

How do we feel about IFW left wing when he primarily plays right wing? Had hoped he might have played left for Exeter this season since PBB played right last year but obviously getting no help there.

Genge
LCD
Heyes
Itoje
Chessum
Pepper
Underhill
Earl
Mitchell
Fsmith
Dingwall
Freeman (Lawrence)
IFW
Roebuck (Freeman)
steward

Baxter
George
Stuart
Coles
Pollock
Quirke
Ford
Lawrence (roebuck/CCS)

[Puja]

Going to be nervy few weeks because depth at loosehead, hooker, lock, scrum half and full back is very poor.

Team from that for 1st test? Maybe the below. Think Underhill has to start with instructions to end Valentini any time he gets the ball.

How do we feel about IFW left wing when he primarily plays right wing? Had hoped he might have played left for Exeter this season since PBB played right last year but obviously getting no help there.

Genge
LCD
Heyes
Itoje
Chessum
Pepper
Underhill
Earl
Mitchell
Fsmith
Dingwall
Freeman (Lawrence)
IFW
Roebuck (Freeman)
steward

Baxter
George
Stuart
Coles
Pollock
Quirke
Ford
Lawrence (roebuck/CCS)

I still remain baffled by the idea of putting Freeman at 13 when we've got Lawrence in belting form. It's not like there's any synergy from playing him alongside Dingwall given they've barely played centre alongside each other. Keep Freeman at 11 so that IFW can play 14.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Going to be nervy few weeks because depth at loosehead, hooker, lock, scrum half and full back is very poor.

Team from that for 1st test? Maybe the below. Think Underhill has to start with instructions to end Valentini any time he gets the ball.

How do we feel about IFW left wing when he primarily plays right wing? Had hoped he might have played left for Exeter this season since PBB played right last year but obviously getting no help there.

Genge
LCD
Heyes
Itoje
Chessum
Pepper
Underhill
Earl
Mitchell
Fsmith
Dingwall
Freeman (Lawrence)
IFW
Roebuck (Freeman)
steward

Baxter
George
Stuart
Coles
Pollock
Quirke
Ford
Lawrence (roebuck/CCS)

Yep, our depth is being sorely tested in a few positions.

Going to make picking the A team for the NZ game quite a challenge.

[Captainhaircut]

Going to be nervy few weeks because depth at loosehead, hooker, lock, scrum half and full back is very poor.

Team from that for 1st test? Maybe the below. Think Underhill has to start with instructions to end Valentini any time he gets the ball.

How do we feel about IFW left wing when he primarily plays right wing? Had hoped he might have played left for Exeter this season since PBB played right last year but obviously getting no help there.

Genge
LCD
Heyes
Itoje
Chessum
Pepper
Underhill
Earl
Mitchell
Fsmith
Dingwall
Freeman (Lawrence)
IFW
Roebuck (Freeman)
steward

Baxter
George
Stuart
Coles
Pollock
Quirke
Ford
Lawrence (roebuck/CCS)

I still remain baffled by the idea of putting Freeman at 13 when we've got Lawrence in belting form. It's not like there's any synergy from playing him alongside Dingwall given they've barely played centre alongside each other. Keep Freeman at 11 so that IFW can play 14.

Puja

Said this before but not sure I’ve ever seen Freeman have a great game from the left wing. Certainly never for England.

Not convinced Lawrence has the lateral movement to defend 13 at international level and think that’s shared by the coaches. Freeman is technically the man in position at 13 given he played there in our last game with a full squad and we were brilliant that day. Would like to see that continued with.

[Puja]

Going to be nervy few weeks because depth at loosehead, hooker, lock, scrum half and full back is very poor.

Team from that for 1st test? Maybe the below. Think Underhill has to start with instructions to end Valentini any time he gets the ball.

How do we feel about IFW left wing when he primarily plays right wing? Had hoped he might have played left for Exeter this season since PBB played right last year but obviously getting no help there.

Genge
LCD
Heyes
Itoje
Chessum
Pepper
Underhill
Earl
Mitchell
Fsmith
Dingwall
Freeman (Lawrence)
IFW
Roebuck (Freeman)
steward

Baxter
George
Stuart
Coles
Pollock
Quirke
Ford
Lawrence (roebuck/CCS)

I still remain baffled by the idea of putting Freeman at 13 when we've got Lawrence in belting form. It's not like there's any synergy from playing him alongside Dingwall given they've barely played centre alongside each other. Keep Freeman at 11 so that IFW can play 14.

Puja

Said this before but not sure I’ve ever seen Freeman have a great game from the left wing. Certainly never for England.

Not convinced Lawrence has the lateral movement to defend 13 at international level and think that’s shared by the coaches. Freeman is technically the man in position at 13 given he played there in our last game with a full squad and we were brilliant that day. Would like to see that continued with.

New Zealand tour last year?

I will confess not to knowing enough about centre defence to judge Lawrence there, but Blackett never seemed to have a problem with him for Bath and he's neither slow nor stupid, so I'm not convinced it's an issue. Instinctively, I'd rather trust his defensive positioning from 115 games at centre, over that of someone who's only played there 13 times in his whole career, but I do reserve the right to be wrong, cause it's not my area.

Not sure I'd lay too much credence to the Wales game, given the shambles they were that day.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Going to be nervy few weeks because depth at loosehead, hooker, lock, scrum half and full back is very poor.

Team from that for 1st test? Maybe the below. Think Underhill has to start with instructions to end Valentini any time he gets the ball.

How do we feel about IFW left wing when he primarily plays right wing? Had hoped he might have played left for Exeter this season since PBB played right last year but obviously getting no help there.

Genge
LCD
Heyes
Itoje
Chessum
Pepper
Underhill
Earl
Mitchell
Fsmith
Dingwall
Freeman (Lawrence)
IFW
Roebuck (Freeman)
steward

Baxter
George
Stuart
Coles
Pollock
Quirke
Ford
Lawrence (roebuck/CCS)

Yep, our depth is being sorely tested in a few positions.

Going to make picking the A team for the NZ game quite a challenge.

I think that’s a touch dramatic.

Realistically we’re probably missing our first choice 15, second choice 9 and third choice loosehead. Also Atkinson, but hard to know where he is in the pecking order. Arguably Ben Curry is second choice 7 too but that’s not a major concern with Underhill. Pollock and Pepper in the squad. It’ll be a shame if Ilione misses out altogether, but it’s not a quantifiable loss given he’s currently an unknown quantity at test level

As for the A squad, loosehead is probably the only real problem position. It’s pretty straightforward putting together a decent 23 that probably won’t be dissimilar to the A’s last outing.

[SixAndAHalf]

Exciting squad. I’d like to see:

Genge
LCD
Heyes
Itoje
Chessum
Curry
Underhill
Pollock

Mitchell
FSmith
IFW
Dingwall
Freeman
Roebuck
MSmith

George
Baxter
Stuart
Coles
CCS
Earl
Spencer
Lawrence

In the backline and back row there are multiple combinations we could use so it’s a tricky one. I’ve gone with a Saints heavy approach given we mimick their attacking patterns but would be happy with any combination really.

Im very high on Pollock and Roebuck so would have them in any combination. Full back is the position I’m least confident on but have gone for MSmith given South Africa aren’t on the docket.

[FKAS]

Not sure I'd be keen to see Baxter and Stuart on the bench. I'd rather play them for the first half and then bring on Genge and Heyes from the start of the second. More impact ball in hand.

Genge, LCD, Stuart
Chessum, Itoje
TCurry, Earl, Underhill
Mitchell, F Smith
Dingwall, Lawrence
IFW, M Smith, Freeman

George, Baxter, Heyes, CCS, Pollock, Spencer, Ford, Roebuck

That's what I'm expecting come team announcement time. I'd be pretty happy with that, as already mentioned I'd switch the props round and then unload the bench front row at halftime. I think we're a little hamstrung with the backrow, had Ilione been got a 6:2 might have been on the cards with Smashing Backrow using CCS, Pollock and Ilione to inject fresh carrying to the backrow over the course of the second half.

[Stom]

Not sure I'd be keen to see Baxter and Stuart on the bench. I'd rather play them for the first half and then bring on Genge and Heyes from the start of the second. More impact ball in hand.

Genge, LCD, Stuart
Chessum, Itoje
TCurry, Earl, Underhill
Mitchell, F Smith
Dingwall, Lawrence
IFW, M Smith, Freeman

George, Baxter, Heyes, CCS, Pollock, Spencer, Ford, Roebuck

That's what I'm expecting come team announcement time. I'd be pretty happy with that, as already mentioned I'd switch the props round and then unload the bench front row at halftime. I think we're a little hamstrung with the backrow, had Ilione been got a 6:2 might have been on the cards with Smashing Backrow using CCS, Pollock and Ilione to inject fresh carrying to the backrow over the course of the second half.

Are we getting closer in opinions or something?

I'd go with pretty much that, save Pollock at 8 over Earl. Except I wouldn't have both Smith's and Ford in the 23, that's overkill. And while Roebuck was great, I might go for Arundell in the 23 shirt for...x factor.

I feel sorry for Murley not taking his chance, as he seems to have blown it now. So many wing options around, it's pretty scary. But we're left looking for an 8 again...sigh.

[Captainhaircut]

Do we think there’s any chance at all that Freeman might play at full back?

[Danno]

I'd rather not. He's one of the first names on the sheet at wing for me and I'm really tired of playing people out of position. If he has the larger part of a season at FB (or 13 for that matter) for Saints and does well, then cool. But for now I don't see any justification for moving one of the best wingers in the world away from that.

[Captainhaircut]

Wasn’t necessarily advocating for it. Just wondering if it’s a viable option for Borthwick. Particularly as he may want Ford on the bench in future and want Freeman to cover full back whilst starting centre or wing.

[Danno]

Yeah I understand. We wouldn't even be talking about it if Furbank was fit and firing.

I just feel, personally, that Freeman is too good to leave off of the wing right now, he's got everything you want in a winger and doesn't quite have the fullback playmaker skills that are very much in vogue these days. Leave him on the wing until he proves he's just as capable at 13 or 15 imo.

[Scrumhead]

Not sure I'd be keen to see Baxter and Stuart on the bench. I'd rather play them for the first half and then bring on Genge and Heyes from the start of the second. More impact ball in hand.

Genge, LCD, Stuart
Chessum, Itoje
TCurry, Earl, Underhill
Mitchell, F Smith
Dingwall, Lawrence
IFW, M Smith, Freeman

George, Baxter, Heyes, CCS, Pollock, Spencer, Ford, Roebuck

That's what I'm expecting come team announcement time. I'd be pretty happy with that, as already mentioned I'd switch the props round and then unload the bench front row at halftime. I think we're a little hamstrung with the backrow, had Ilione been got a 6:2 might have been on the cards with Smashing Backrow using CCS, Pollock and Ilione to inject fresh carrying to the backrow over the course of the second half.

Are we getting closer in opinions or something?

I'd go with pretty much that, save Pollock at 8 over Earl. Except I wouldn't have both Smith's and Ford in the 23, that's overkill. And while Roebuck was great, I might go for Arundell in the 23 shirt for...x factor.

I feel sorry for Murley not taking his chance, as he seems to have blown it now. So many wing options around, it's pretty scary. But we're left looking for an 8 again...sigh.

Yeah Smith x2 + Ford is a bit unnecessary. If we’ve already got the 2 Smiths in the squad, I’d prefer to have Ojomoh or Slade in the 22 shirt.

I don’t think Murley has ‘blown it’. He might have had a mixed debut in Dublin but he was good in Argentina. He suffers from Quins’ inconsistency which is not at helpful with the amount of competition for wing slots and that’s only going to get more difficult when Sleightholme and Muir return from injury. I don’t see that as him blowing it on an individual level though - put him in Arundell’s shirt for Bath and he’d have scored at least as many tries I reckon. I’m 100% confident he’s good enough, there’s just a mad level of competition. You could say something similar for Radwan - he’s doing everything right, he’s just up against a plethora of excellent players.

Freeman and IFW are clear front runners for 11 and 14 with Roebuck first reserve. Then it’s a tough call between Sleightholme, Murley, Arundell and Muir.

Muir was good in Argentina, but given his age and the emergence of Caluori with a similar USP, his England career might be brief.

I could easily see Bracken pushing hard across the next 2yrs plus possibly PBB so the competition on the wing Is only going to get tougher.

A bit like in the back row - very good players who could have had a lot of caps in other eras will end up missing out through no real fault of their own.

[Oakboy]

Does the Willis exclusion decision indicate that SB will go all-out for the RWC build from here with selection? The Calouri and Arundell picks may point to it. If there's a hint of it, might some of the injury-prone players lose out. I suppose T Curry might be the exception.

[Scrumhead]

Possibly … he did specifically say he wants to focus on players who he can build around for the RWC. This is also why I think Slade’s days may be numbered even though he has a central contract.

OTOH, that doesn’t exactly chime with the hooker situation. George is still comfortably one of our best two hookers now, but time waits for no man and I don’t think he will make it to 2027. Persevering with Dan as 3rd choice when others are in demonstrably better form is odd. My hope is that Jibulu is picked for the A squad, rips it up and then makes the 6N squad in Dan’s place.

[Oakboy]

Possibly … he did specifically say he wants to focus on players who he can build around for the RWC. This is also why I think Slade’s days may be numbered even though he has a central contract.

OTOH, that doesn’t exactly chime with the hooker situation. George is still comfortably one of our best two hookers now, but time waits for no man and I don’t think he will make it to 2027. Persevering with Dan as 3rd choice when others are in demonstrably better form is odd. My hope is that Jibulu is picked for the A squad, rips it up and then makes the 6N squad in Dan’s place.

Tuipulotu?

[Epaminondas Pules]

Do we think there’s any chance at all that Freeman might play at full back?

Quite possibly. It all depends on what the spreadsheet functions indicate as the best outlook for a victory! Could be a bloody fun backline!

Mitchell
Smith F
Arundell
Dingwall
Lawrence
IFW
Freeman

Quirke
Smith
Ojomoh (or 6:2)

[Epaminondas Pules]

Possibly … he did specifically say he wants to focus on players who he can build around for the RWC. This is also why I think Slade’s days may be numbered even though he has a central contract.

OTOH, that doesn’t exactly chime with the hooker situation. George is still comfortably one of our best two hookers now, but time waits for no man and I don’t think he will make it to 2027. Persevering with Dan as 3rd choice when others are in demonstrably better form is odd. My hope is that Jibulu is picked for the A squad, rips it up and then makes the 6N squad in Dan’s place.

Tuipulotu?

I'd be surprised if they were both not hookers in the A squad.