EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

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Tigersman
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Tigersman »

Peej wrote:
fivepointer wrote:SA, I think. But for injury he would have gone to Oz I reckon.

Got something about him. He's big, abrasive, has a good engine and decent at line out.
Personally I think he's a bit of a thug that gets schooled by more skillful players.

He's also never a 7. I know Haskell isn't a 7, but there's really no way Williams is. Guy Thompson would be a better bet for 7

He's from Zimbabwe Five pointer.

Peej he did well today and can't remember him being sschooled by many skillful players. (Well no more than your average forward v Back), care to point out some instances you can remember?
Peej
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Peej »

Well Thompson, Young and Jones did one on him when Wasps went to WR. I also remember him being shown up at the Ricoh last year too, when he tried to put a cheap shot on Piutau and was dropped on his arse.

He's still decent enough 6, but he'd never be a 7
Scrumhead
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Scrumhead »

TheNomad wrote:
Scrumhead wrote:
Slightly changing the subject, but Worcester need some credit for blooding English youngsters like Humphreys and Shillcock especially with both getting amongst the tries.
Very much on subject! Have been really impressed by those two

Humphreys looks a like a really good finisher with an excellent step and real strength with the ball, and for a 19 year old Shillcock looks some propsect.

I understand he likes playing 10 but personally I think his game looks well suited to 15. That second try yesterday was taken beautifully - he made it look much easier than it was
I meant changing the subject from Williams/the back row.

I wonder whether Worcester would have taken the same route under Dean Ryan? Arguably it's been driven by injuries to Heem and Pennell, but the kids are taking their chance very well.

Huw Taylor looked decent for the U20s and Singleton and Kitchener looked OK without standing out, so there's some good young talent there.
twitchy
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by twitchy »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37468285

I don't know what is left to say at this point. Does he need to change clubs or take a break from rugby or some thing? Because it's definitely not working at the moment.
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Mellsblue
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Mellsblue »

I thought similar when I read it. Whatever the approach is at the moment it clearly doesn't work.
Digby
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Digby »

A mixed bag from Brown, some good positional play and some good work under the high ball. And one absolute horror French fullback esque moment in defence that nearly gifted a try. Goode looked good, but he often does at this level.
Peej
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Peej »

For Wasps, Daly was a bit shaky. Robson showed how lethal he can be. Cips showed the one absolute moment of magic, tackled pretty well, but that's about it, I think.

Of the outliers, Jones and Thompson showed up well.
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Which Tyler
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Which Tyler »

Bath:
Charlie Ewels - back in his specialist position, but part of a tight 5 (and entire pack... and entire team) that was simply misfiring - put himself about, but to little effect

George Ford - didn't do too badly to start with, but the Leicester backrow... and crowd got to his head, combined with poor ball arriving, and no options outside him, a couple of sliced kicks from hand under presure were atypical, but the whole thing led to a couple of missed kicks at the posts, Bowden going off concussed seemed to be the final straw for Ford's confidence, and ideally we'd have replaced him at that point; if only we weren't down to the bare bones. Kicking 2/4
Jonathan Joseph DNP - leg injury.
Semesa RokoduguniDid really well in a mis-firing team, made something from nothing when he had half a chance; rock solid under the high ball, and let nothing past in defence (did Eddie REALLY tell him he needed to do more in defence? or is that just one of Eddie's bullshit WUMs?)
Anthony WatsonJust looks out of position on the wing to me, he just doesn't seem to read things as well out there. Exciting when he got the ball, and made metres he had no right to, but a little porous in defence.


Excuses: Utterly bossed up front, and didn't put any men into the breakdown, which is always going to be lethal against Tigers - I really hope that's not what Bladders wants us to do as standard - it just wo'nt work in the Prem. Several of the pack were utterly anonymous today, with only Garvey seeming to put in a performance - whilst of the backs, Ford struggled manfully... until he basically ran out of ideas... and form... and confidence; though hindered by having 4 wings and a fullback outside him - Kahn and Roko were the only backs to emerge with any credit in the bank yesterday.
Ravaged by injury at a ground we've notched 1 victory at in the professional era; we were never going to win - but we really should have competed better. The fringe EPS players, Attwood, Thomas showed why they're missing the fringe, rather than inside.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Which Tyler »

Which Tyler wrote:2015-16 Stat.s
Which Tyler wrote:More 2015-16 Stats.

Right, time to take a look

LHP: Work rate is damned good for Mako, and immense for Hepburn; both with ball in hand, and tackling – both give away a few more penalties; but that’s bound to happen if they’re getting involved that much.

HK: George is just better than Hartley in every stat on there except turnovers conceded; they also show Hartley up as a carrier – so ineffective compared to the other, and really no better in measurable defence (though there’s no measure for rucks, mauls or set pieces). It also really shows LCD in a good light as an impact sub – though I’d worry about starting him, and still worry over his line-out work.
THP: Sinckler’s work ball-in-hand is worth noting again; and he’s immensely strong, just not experienced enough yet to be effective in the tight (opinion, no stat.s available). Sinckler rightly ahead of Thomas for impact; though HT seems better in the defensive line.

LK: Ewels not really doing enough in his breakthrough season; there for the experience and potential. Nothing much in it between the rest of them – though it clearly shows Symons as a defensive specialist, rather than a carrier.

FL: Harrison has some really good stat.s there ball-in-hand; though Robshaw and Haskell show why they’re preferred for security. Haskell really has upped his effectiveness in the Worsley role though. Those flankers on the fringe all show why we’re considering them the next bests.

N8: Probably the role with the greatest variation in the stat analysis; which will be more down to how their teams play them, rather than necessarily the individual’s ability – Hughes and Billy obviously dropping back to field kicks more than Clifford and Beamount; surprisingly little to chose elsewhere.


SH: Robson confirmed as being the stand-out candidate of the 4; Care looking the worst

FH: Faz does score more points per match than Ford, which will help his media “ice-man” “kicking virtuoso” reputation; but I’d still say that’s down to Sarries being dominant and Bath being shite last season than anything else. Interesting that despite that Ford seems to be trusted more to actually do something with the ball than Faz (on average, touching the ball 39 times, to 23 times per match) – though Faz does make more clean breaks – is this Wriggles trusting him at the right time? Defenders not expecting him to try? Or him just being a better runner with the ball than Ford? No surprises that Faz (or the Sarries backrow) is more secure in contact; or that Faz both makes and misses more tackles. Cip’s stats really don’t stand out the way his fans would expect them to, once averaged over a season.

CE: TBH, the only real difference the stat.s show is between the battering rams and the rapiers; with JJ, Devo and Smith being the better defenders; and Te’o still being a little inexperienced in union defensive lines.

WG: Stand-out stat.s for Roko; and Jonny May being surprisingly (to me) good at keeping the ball alive. Roko scores the most, makes the 2nd most metres-per-run (behind Wade), and comfortably the best tackle completion rate (and amongst the most work in defence – yet Eddie has allegedly told him to work harder on his defence!). Wade’s defensive stats really do let him down – starkly; fewest tackles made, (almost) most missed.

FB: Haley and Pennell probably the most rounded; Watson comfortably the least involved (opponents afraid to kick to him? Or Bath the least willing/able to get the ball to him?) Least involved, but he scores as many tries as anyone; and seems the best defender. Goode’s turnstile reputation not done any favours by a tackle completion rate of 62% (90% for Watson)
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Stom
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Stom »

After watching the Sarries match, I have a few points to make.

Marler - well, we don't know anything, but hope he has a couple of weeks off.

Buchanan - when he has weeks like this, you can see the potential, but he then has his average week and you see why he's around 6th in line.

Collier - nothing more than AP makeweight.

Sinckler - he is a bundle of energy. Him and Genge at prop would be very, um, interesting. Has a lot to learn, still, but is learning quickly and has a great teacher in Adam Jones.

Merrick - Now that was more like it. First 40 especially, that was by far the best I've ever seen Merrick play. He was physical and abrasive. Previously, he's never really used his sheer physicality to his advantage, but at the weekend he threw himself around to great effect. If he can keep that up, he can nail down the Quins 4 shirt, and maybe then advance. IF...

Robshaw - he may have dropped his intensity slightly so far this season, but that was back to his best. He knows how to make telling interventions, for sure.

Wallace - no thanks (for England).

J.Chisholm - another player I doubted who stepped up. More performances like that, please. Perhaps he's better than i thought.

Care - no thanks (for England).

Swiel & Hopper - AP at best...

Walker - He still needs to be involved more. @WT Perhaps we can get his stats, too?

Brown - wobbly at times, and good at times. Doesn't look completely fit yet. Can he get there and get back to his best?


And on Sarries:

They don't like it when things don't go their way, do they? They become petty bullies when things don't go right for them. And Lozowski showed that it was just the armchair ride making him look great. Not great. At least, not yet.
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Which Tyler
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Which Tyler »

Stom wrote:Walker - He still needs to be involved more. @WT Perhaps we can get his stats, too?
- - - - - - - - - - - T ----A --- Pts -- K --- P --- R --- MR -- CB -- DB - OL -- TC - Tack - MT - LO -- LS - Pen -- Y -- R --- Min
Charlie Walker . 10 --- 0 --- 50 -- 12 -- 10 -- 78 -- 631 -- 19 -- 29 -- 1 --- 23 -- 43 -- 16 --- 0 ---- 0 --- 3 --- 0 --- 0 --- 910
Charlie Walker . 0.9 - 0.0 - 4.4 - 1.1 - 0.9 - 6.9 - 55.5 - 1.7 - 2.5 - 0.1 - 2.0 - 3.8 - 1.4 -- 0.0 - 0.0 - 0.3 - 0.0 - 0.0 - 80
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Stom »

Which Tyler wrote:
Stom wrote:Walker - He still needs to be involved more. @WT Perhaps we can get his stats, too?
- - - - - - - - - - - T ----A --- Pts -- K --- P --- R --- MR -- CB -- DB - OL -- TC - Tack - MT - LO -- LS - Pen -- Y -- R --- Min
Charlie Walker . 10 --- 0 --- 50 -- 12 -- 10 -- 78 -- 631 -- 19 -- 29 -- 1 --- 23 -- 43 -- 16 --- 0 ---- 0 --- 3 --- 0 --- 0 --- 910
Charlie Walker . 0.9 - 0.0 - 4.4 - 1.1 - 0.9 - 6.9 - 55.5 - 1.7 - 2.5 - 0.1 - 2.0 - 3.8 - 1.4 -- 0.0 - 0.0 - 0.3 - 0.0 - 0.0 - 80

Cheers.

So pretty good attacking stats, but selfish and poor defensively :)

If he can fix that, he can be on the fringes for England, I reckon.
Peej
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Peej »

Just on Guy Thompson, this is an interesting read:

http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/eng ... asps-70295

Still don't think it's enough to merit an England call (and I'd actually be interested in seeing his work against Tigers) - but it's a good breakdown of the value he brings to Wasps.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Which Tyler »

Re-arranged the Stats for y'all. Added things like Metres per Run; and Tackle success rates; also updated a few things, where eg statbunker includes the 2016 6N in the 16-17 season for no apparent reason. Have also included the various fringe players we were interested in into the main chart for easier comparison. Minutes played is the total for the season; whereas everything else is average per 80 minutes on the pitch.
2015-16 season
EPS 2015-16.png
2016-17 season after 4 matches (bear in mind that those with minimal game-time will have some very skewed averages at this stage.
EPS 2016-17.png
Overall kicking stats this year are:
Ford: 20/26 = 76.9%
Slade:. 6/7 = 85.7%
Goode: 4/8 = 50.0%

for 2014-15-16
Kicking 2014-15-16.png
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Stom
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Stom »

WTF are Wasps feeding their pack! Those tackle %age stats are insane across the board.
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Which Tyler
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Which Tyler »

Stom wrote:WTF are Wasps feeding their pack! Those tackle %age stats are insane across the board.
Making up for the lack of tackle stats on the wing?
Beasties
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Beasties »

Anyone know what time the announcement is?
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Mellsblue
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Mellsblue »

Not I.

The Times think Lozowski will get the call to cover for the injured Farrell.

That Mike Williams is definately in. Worryingly, Cockerill had this to say about it:
"Some of his skillset needs to improve. He dropped the ball two or three times at the weekend, which you might not get away with in a test matches."

They also gave Thompson and Sam Jones as injury cover for Haskell and Clifford.
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Stom
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Stom »

45-man elite player squad:

Forwards

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks)

Jack Clifford (Harlequins)

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)

Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)

Will Evans (Leicester Tigers)

Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)

Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)

Jamie George (Saracens)

Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)

James Haskell (Wasps)

Paul Hill (Northampton Saints)

Nathan Hughes (Wasps)

Maro Itoje (Saracens)

Sam Jones (Wasps)

George Kruis (Saracens)

Joe Launchbury (Wasps)

Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)

Joe Marler (Harlequins)

Matt Mullan (Wasps)

Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)

Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)

Tommy Taylor (Wasps)

Billy Vunipola (Saracens)

Mako Vunipola (Saracens)

Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers)

Backs
Mike Brown (Harlequins)

Danny Care (Harlequins)

Elliot Daly (Wasps)

Owen Farrell (Saracens)

George Ford (Bath Rugby)

Alex Goode (Saracens)

Mike Haley (Sale Sharks)

Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)

Alex Lozowski (Saracens)

Joe Marchant (Harlequins)

Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)

Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)

Dan Robson (Wasps)

Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby)

Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)

Ben Spencer (Saracens)

Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors)

Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)

Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)

Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)



37 players attending Brighton training camp from 2-4 October

Forwards

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks)

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)

Jamie George (Saracens)

Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints) *injury replacement for James Haskell (Wasps)

Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)

James Haskell (Wasps)

Paul Hill (Northampton Saints)

Nathan Hughes (Wasps)

Maro Itoje (Saracens)

Sam Jones (Wasps)

George Kruis (Saracens)

Joe Launchbury (Wasps)

Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)

Joe Marler (Harlequins)

Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) *injury replacement for Jack Clifford (Harlequins)

Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)

Tommy Taylor (Wasps)

Billy Vunipola (Saracens)

Mako Vunipola (Saracens)

Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers)

Backs
Mike Brown (Harlequins)

Danny Care (Harlequins)

Elliot Daly (Wasps)

Ollie Devoto (Exeter Rugby) *injury replacement for Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)

Owen Farrell (Saracens)

George Ford (Bath Rugby)

Alex Goode (Saracens)

Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)

Joe Marchant (Harlequins)

Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)

Dan Robson (Wasps)

Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby)

Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)

Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors)

Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)

Marland Yarde (Harlequins) *injury replacement for Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)

Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Mikey Brown
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Mikey Brown »

I'm not sure if that's interesting or not. Morgan is a surprise. Vunipola, Beaumont, Hughes and Morgan? Really?

Am I right that it's Genge, Sinkler, Ewels, Evans, Spencer, Lozowski, Merchant, Haley missing out?
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Stom »

To make it more understandable:

45-man elite player squad:

Forwards

Vunipola, Marler, Mullan, Genge
Hartley, George, LCD, Taylor
Cole, Hill, Sinckler
Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Launch, Ewels
Clifford, Robshaw, Jones, Williams, Haskell, Evans
Beaumont, Hughes, Vunipola

Backs

Care, Youngs, Robson, Spencer
Ford, Farrell, Lozowski, Slade
Daly, Te'o, Tuilagi, Joseph, Marchant
May, Nowell, Roko, Watson
Brown, Goode, Haley


37 players attending Brighton training camp from 2-4 October

Forwards

Vunipola, Marler
Hartley, George, LCD, Taylor
Cole, Hill
Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Launch
Robshaw, Jones, Williams, Harrison
Beaumont, Hughes, Vunipola, Morgan


Backs

Care, Youngs, Robson
Ford, Farrell, Slade
Daly, Te'o, Devoto, Joseph, Marchant
Yarde, Nowell, Roko, Watson
Brown, Goode


There's a BR missing from the 37. The RFU site has Haskell down twice, so I don't know who the other player is for sure.

EDIT: Sorry, my mistake, missed Taylor.
Last edited by Stom on Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Stom »

Mikey Brown wrote:I'm not sure if that's interesting or not. Morgan is a surprise. Vunipola, Beaumont, Hughes and Morgan? Really?

Am I right that it's Genge, Sinkler, Ewels, Evans, Spencer, Lozowski, Merchant, Haley missing out?
Marchant is in.

Looking at it, I reckon Evans is in, too...


I think both Hughes and Beaumont are being looked at as potentially covering 6. That means 7 is going to be covered by Harrison and Jones... which could work, I suppose, but is still lacking something, I feel.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Mikey Brown »

From that, I'd love to see Robson, Ford, Watson, Slade, Joseph, Roko, Goode? Daly? Nowell? Watson? Brown?
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Stom »

Mikey Brown wrote:From that, I'd love to see Robson, Ford, Watson, Slade, Joseph, Roko, Goode? Daly? Nowell? Watson? Brown?
I reckon it has to be Goode, but I still reckon he would be shown up defensively...

I do wish Nowell would play FB...
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Post by Mikey Brown »

Just what I was thinking.

I suppose give Goode another go, even if we just end up saying "nope, still can't hack it". I don't like the balance though, if magically we do get two distributors and a ball-passing 9 it would be nice to have some more solid options outside. I think Nowell could do that but god knows when he last played there.
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