Nathan Hughes

[Puja]

Andy Saull huh? All that athleticism and opensideyness would surely take us to a new level.

as would Haskell and Nathan Hughes?

Including the likes of Saull and Seymour does dramatically undercut your point. Say what you like about Haskell, but he is an international quality player. It's dubious whether Andy Saull is a Premiership quality player and the fact that he's a specialist in one area doesn't help very much if he's crap everywhere else.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I don't know what that question even means. I'm not convinced you do either. Is Andy Saull still even playing?

[Bloggs]

I don't know what that question even means. I'm not convinced you do either. Is Andy Saull still even playing?

Why aren't we selecting Neil Back?!?!?!

[Mellsblue]

Andy Saull huh? All that athleticism and opensideyness would surely take us to a new level.

as would Haskell and Nathan Hughes?

Saull is at Leeds/Yorkshire and might struggle to argue he's first choice.

[Scrumhead]

He's a lazy sod. That much is obvious when you watch Wasps play. He's not going to do much grafting, covering, ruck clearing and challenging over the ball. That's just not his game.

Mind you, Puja's analysis (good work that) really does how just how lazy he is.

I suppose it was his first game, in a new side. Maybe he wasn't sure what he should be doing, though you'd expect an international player to at least break into a brisk run from time to time.

We'll see. He's going to play on Saturday and I'd be astonished if he wasn't told to up his workrate. As a flanker, though? I really don't see him as anything other than a number 8.

See, I always knew he was a bit workshy, but I put that down to him being a gloryhunter - evading rucks so he'll be in position for the nice camera-friendly charge. But I just don't fathom why one wouldn't chase after a clean break at top speed. That's not being a team player; that's classic gloryhunting. I just don't even get what's going through his head.

Puja

Me neither. At that point he'd been on the pitch for about 15mins and done more or less nothing so it's not even as though he could claim to have been tired!

[Mikey Brown]

Andy Saull huh? All that athleticism and opensideyness would surely take us to a new level.

as would Haskell and Nathan Hughes?

Saull is at Leeds/Yorkshire and might struggle to argue he's first choice.

But he's still a natural openside, right?

[Mellsblue]

as would Haskell and Nathan Hughes?

Saull is at Leeds/Yorkshire and might struggle to argue he's first choice.

But he's still a natural openside, right?

And left. He's so good he can play both sides of the scrum.

[Puja]

Saull is at Leeds/Yorkshire and might struggle to argue he's first choice.

But he's still a natural openside, right?

And left. He's so good he can play both sides of the scrum.

Versatility?! Smells like a 6.5 to me. Burn him!

Puja

[kk67]

Andy Saull huh? All that athleticism and opensideyness would surely take us to a new level.

as would Haskell and Nathan Hughes?

Including the likes of Saull and Seymour does dramatically undercut your point. Say what you like about Haskell, but he is an international quality player. It's dubious whether Andy Saull is a Premiership quality player and the fact that he's a specialist in one area doesn't help very much if he's crap everywhere else.

Puja

hmmmm,.....your analysis of Hughes is pretty much exactly what I was saying about the Hask during his first 50 caps.

[Puja]

as would Haskell and Nathan Hughes?

Including the likes of Saull and Seymour does dramatically undercut your point. Say what you like about Haskell, but he is an international quality player. It's dubious whether Andy Saull is a Premiership quality player and the fact that he's a specialist in one area doesn't help very much if he's crap everywhere else.

Puja

hmmmm,.....your analysis of Hughes is pretty much exactly what I was saying about the Hask during his first 50 caps.

I'd've compared early Hask to a labador puppy myself. Full of energy, really wants to do things, but not quite sure what or where and more likely to trip over his own legs than anything else.

Puja

[kk67]

I'd've compared early Hask to a labador puppy myself. Full of energy, really wants to do things, but not quite sure what or where and more likely to trip over his own legs than anything else.

Puja

I think his last 6/7 games might have given you rose tinted spectacles. He was lazy.
It used to drive me up the wall seeing him give post match interviews where it was clear he was still as fresh as a daisy. In that respect Jnfg's comparison with Saul and Seymour is apposite. They are 2 players that always emptied the tank.

[Puja]

I'd've compared early Hask to a labador puppy myself. Full of energy, really wants to do things, but not quite sure what or where and more likely to trip over his own legs than anything else.

Puja

I think his last 6/7 games might have given you rose tinted spectacles. He was lazy.
It used to drive me up the wall seeing him give post match interviews where it was clear he was still as fresh as a daisy. In that respect Jnfg's comparison with Saul and Seymour is apposite. They are 2 players that always emptied the tank.

Quite possibly. I was thinking of his stint in New Zealand, where he tried really hard and yet was remarkably ineffective.

Puja

[bitts]

Andy Saull huh? All that athleticism and opensideyness would surely take us to a new level.

as would Haskell and Nathan Hughes?

Including the likes of Saull and Seymour does dramatically undercut your point. Say what you like about Haskell, but he is an international quality player. It's dubious whether Andy Saull is a Premiership quality player and the fact that he's a specialist in one area doesn't help very much if he's crap everywhere else.

Puja

Isn't this basically Jones' point. If there was an international 7 of international quality he'd be in the squad. There isn't, so there's not. Last season I'd have argued Kvesic was worth a risk, but he's hardly been fantastic this year. To be honest, I may not agree with every Jones decision but it's clear he's got a pretty good idea of who will make a good international player and who won't. If he says Kvesic can't cut it, he's probably right.

(still think he's wrong about Harrison though).

[kk67]

It seems to me that when Young James has blood on his shirt, he's played well and I can't deny him his quality in the last series of test games.
But backrow should bleed.

Bloodonthetracksuit........I miss that guy.

[Puja]

While we have this thread open about Hughes, found this interview with Nemani Nadolo interesting: http://www.planetrugby.com/news/intervi ... out-money/

“We have known for years that we have got limited resources, but we don’t let it get to us mate. If anything we are proud of the fact we can punch above our weight sometimes and play against these big nations. Kudos to England for getting £20k a match, good on them.

“For us, when we get the opportunity to play for Fiji we know what we are playing for, and that is pride in the jersey and for the people back home.

“Most of our guys earn money from outside of here – at our clubs – and if [playing for Fiji] was about the money then none of us would be playing. That should give you an insight into how much it means for any of us to play for Fiji.”

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Yep

[16th man]

I'm loathe to jump in on this Hughes is lazy thing. The evidence is pretty damning, but I remember the old, old, old board fulminating about Maggie Lund having the nerve to walk to a ruck, in the game he played against Ireland. A lot of those posters who were quick to launch into him were a bit less rapid to admit they may have been mistaken when, a few weeks later, it came out he'd had a bad head knock and would have struggled to remember his own name let alone what a ruck was.

[Puja]

I'm loathe to jump in on this Hughes is lazy thing. The evidence is pretty damning, but I remember the old, old, old board fulminating about Maggie Lund having the nerve to walk to a ruck, in the game he played against Ireland. A lot of those posters who were quick to launch into him were a bit less rapid to admit they may have been mistaken when, a few weeks later, it came out he'd had a bad head knock and would have struggled to remember his own name let alone what a ruck was.

I believe I defended his High Lord Lund, believing him to be the heir of Back at the time.

I acknowledge your point that one phase doesn't make a game, but this wasn't an isolated example. He literally never went above an amble without the ball apart from when he charged down the SA and got penalised (and even that was hardly a sprint). He attended 5 rucks and for 4 of them he got there too late to do anything. He was, in a word, appalling.

Puja

[p/d]

If Ford had only looked up before chipping over for himself, then he might have caught sight of Robshaw out on the left, at pace, and in acres of space.

[Mellsblue]

If Ford had only looked up before chipping over for himself, then he might have caught sight of Robshaw out on the left, at pace, and in acres of space.

Not sure how you've confused Nathan Hughes and George Ford.

[16th man]

If Ford had only looked up before chipping over for himself, then he might have caught sight of Robshaw out on the left, at pace, and in acres of space.

Not sure how you've confused Nathan Hughes and George Ford.

Same amount of impact at the ruck?

[Beasties]

I think appalling is maybe a tad harsh Puja. I criticised him straight away but on rewatch saw him put a bit of effort in on occasions, granted not enough to warrant approaching adequate. I do think however that we maybe need to just holster the pitchforks having brandished them about the last few days and see what he follows it up with. I'm disappointed he's not being used to rest Billy for this match. How he is used when he comes on will prob depend on how Harrison is playing, ideally Billy will go off at half time and give Hughes a chance to redeem himself for last Sat.

[Mellsblue]

I think appalling is maybe a tad harsh Puja. I criticised him straight away but on rewatch saw him put a bit of effort in on occasions, granted not enough to warrant approaching adequate. I do think however that we maybe need to just holster the pitchforks having brandished them about the last few days and see what he follows it up with. I'm disappointed he's not being used to rest Billy for this match. How he is used when he comes on will prob depend on how Harrison is playing, ideally Billy will go off at half time and give Hughes a chance to redeem himself for last Sat.

'saw him put a bit of effort in on occasions'
I can practically smell the World Cup win.

[Puja]

If Ford had only looked up before chipping over for himself, then he might have caught sight of Robshaw out on the left, at pace, and in acres of space.

The screenshot's misleading - any pass to the left was blocked by Alberts all the way up until the chip.

Puja

[Digby]

If Ford had only looked up before chipping over for himself, then he might have caught sight of Robshaw out on the left, at pace, and in acres of space.

Not sure how you've confused Nathan Hughes and George Ford.

i'd expected p/d to focus on the poppies sewn (stuck?) onto the England shirts which looked a nasty/cheap job, at least the Saffers showed a bit more respect