High Tackle .... present guidelines..what do you think ?

[whatisthejava]

As a coach in the lower levels of the game Im concerned referees won't have the balls to card people. I can see the merits in what World Rugby are trying to do but do have concerns its not going to work.

Im not sure in the lower leagues its such a problem,

I have to say at my level refs are more lenient but thats also to make sure everyone enjoys the game

[Eugene Wrayburn]

What do we want matches remembered for ..being enjoyable or focussing on one players moment of madness and a poor game because of it?

So here is a thought .....in these situations maybe an alternative punishment may be useful where in the correct cicumstances the player is still red card and ejected from the game but a substitute is allowed on after 10 minutes plus a 50m distance penalty.

I know that in many situations a complete dimissal is warranted but what do we as supporters want to see .

Personally I want to see the offending player get the correct punishment..sent off if required. I am also adamant I want this type of tackle removed from the game ..its not rugby as I wish to see it. I would rather the offload took place and my team lost than this type of dangerous tackling took place.

As a coach I pulled players off the pitch if I thought it was reckless and dangerous foul play even if the ref did not see it.

Its just a thought

My view is that you have to have complete dismissal for something you actually want to eradicate from the game. A yellow is an occupational hazard. Red cards are how you get coaches and team mates and supporters to take it seriously.

[ALunpg]

As a coach in the lower levels of the game Im concerned referees won't have the balls to card people. I can see the merits in what World Rugby are trying to do but do have concerns its not going to work.

And interpreted wrongly

[kk67]

The players are coached to cheat at the higher levels. At the lower levels we're more concerned with skill.

[Doorzetbornandbred]

Based on the game my lads played today if the game had been played mid January 2017 there would have been 6 or 7 cards, 3 of them reds. Not one card was handed out...

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Based on the game my lads played today if the game had been played mid January 2017 there would have been 6 or 7 cards, 3 of them reds. Not one card was handed out...

Will that's exactly why it needs to change. If there are 6-7 hits of heads in a single game even at lower levels something is going badly wrong.

[Doorzetbornandbred]

Based on the game my lads played today if the game had been played mid January 2017 there would have been 6 or 7 cards, 3 of them reds. Not one card was handed out...

Will that's exactly why it needs to change. If there are 6-7 hits of heads in a single game even at lower levels something is going badly wrong.

But my point is why aren't referees dishing them out now? Its already illegal to go head high...

[ALunpg]

Are they U16 or less ...some age groups (not all) do not use the yellow card but there is a red card.
If they were not an age group ...in my opinion I would contact the local referees society or the club directly and ask them to follow up.

I assume that the offending players were penalised and warned. From my personal experience these occurrnces are usually policed well at age group matches and indeed the offenders usually substituted at the referees request so we as coaches could take time to re emphasis the issue to the player.

[Doorzetbornandbred]

Are they U16 or less ...some age groups (not all) do not use the yellow card but there is a red card.
If they were not an age group ...in my opinion I would contact the local referees society or the club directly and ask them to follow up.

I assume that the offending players were penalised and warned. From my personal experience these occurrnces are usually policed well at age group matches and indeed the offenders usually substituted at the referees request so we as coaches could take time to re emphasis the issue to the player.

Colts Alunpg, waste of time bringing it up with referees society. The referee in question is poor. Hes not very old and was being fast tracked by the Society to go way up the ladder. Anyhow once we enter the new year it will be interesting to see what happens. A lot of societies are struggling to cover all the games every weekend so you end up stuck with people who tbh aren't up to the job. I don't like slating referees as its a thankless task and without them we'd have no game. I'm quite happy to chat post match with them regarding the lads and anything they may need to improve on in his/her opinion. The better referees will often ask for an opinion on their performance which I think is bloody great.

[Sandydragon]

Are they U16 or less ...some age groups (not all) do not use the yellow card but there is a red card.
If they were not an age group ...in my opinion I would contact the local referees society or the club directly and ask them to follow up.

I assume that the offending players were penalised and warned. From my personal experience these occurrnces are usually policed well at age group matches and indeed the offenders usually substituted at the referees request so we as coaches could take time to re emphasis the issue to the player.

Colts Alunpg, waste of time bringing it up with referees society. The referee in question is poor. Hes not very old and was being fast tracked by the Society to go way up the ladder. Anyhow once we enter the new year it will be interesting to see what happens. A lot of societies are struggling to cover all the games every weekend so you end up stuck with people who tbh aren't up to the job. I don't like slating referees as its a thankless task and without them we'd have no game. I'm quite happy to chat post match with them regarding the lads and anything they may need to improve on in his/her opinion. The better referees will often ask for an opinion on their performance which I think is bloody great.

At the amateur level, getting a ref at all can be an achievement. Some of the uni games I played in, we were happy if the ref was equally shyte to both teams.

[ALunpg]

SANDY ...Yes .. i understand the problems from first hand from organising local leagues or local age group and universities inter divisions.,it is not easy. The usual answer now is to get players trained to level 1.

The norm was the away coach refereed ... the vast majority were very good on issues of foul play as best they can interpret them.

DOOR Sad to hear that the local ref society is not responsive... I found ours good ..in fact they challenge coaches etc to come along to meetings and often the referees will come and give updates to the clubs when asked.

[kk67]

Are they U16 or less ...some age groups (not all) do not use the yellow card but there is a red card.
If they were not an age group ...in my opinion I would contact the local referees society or the club directly and ask them to follow up.

I assume that the offending players were penalised and warned. From my personal experience these occurrnces are usually policed well at age group matches and indeed the offenders usually substituted at the referees request so we as coaches could take time to re emphasis the issue to the player.

Colts Alunpg, waste of time bringing it up with referees society. The referee in question is poor. Hes not very old and was being fast tracked by the Society to go way up the ladder. Anyhow once we enter the new year it will be interesting to see what happens. A lot of societies are struggling to cover all the games every weekend so you end up stuck with people who tbh aren't up to the job. I don't like slating referees as its a thankless task and without them we'd have no game. I'm quite happy to chat post match with them regarding the lads and anything they may need to improve on in his/her opinion. The better referees will often ask for an opinion on their performance which I think is bloody great.

Yeah,...that surprises me as well.
The Societies will have better information than the coaches on the quality of a ref as they've been assessing the ref' for several years.
We all have bad games,....I had one a few weeks ago, but the coaches opinions of ref's are generally a woeful assessment. Until you've taken the whistle as a regular Saturday/Sunday routine, no amount of reffing your team as a coach gives you better vision than the people who are trained for it.
Nothing like as detailed as the Societies analysis.

On the few occasions when I've had problems with a coach,......they've subsequently turned out to be a dickhead with a history of being a dickhead. It's worth bearing in mind that the reffing community meets at least once a month and we discuss who is the biggest dickhead in our region. Playing or non playing staff.
But,.....Societies vary.

[Doorzetbornandbred]

Are they U16 or less ...some age groups (not all) do not use the yellow card but there is a red card.
If they were not an age group ...in my opinion I would contact the local referees society or the club directly and ask them to follow up.

I assume that the offending players were penalised and warned. From my personal experience these occurrnces are usually policed well at age group matches and indeed the offenders usually substituted at the referees request so we as coaches could take time to re emphasis the issue to the player.

Colts Alunpg, waste of time bringing it up with referees society. The referee in question is poor. Hes not very old and was being fast tracked by the Society to go way up the ladder. Anyhow once we enter the new year it will be interesting to see what happens. A lot of societies are struggling to cover all the games every weekend so you end up stuck with people who tbh aren't up to the job. I don't like slating referees as its a thankless task and without them we'd have no game. I'm quite happy to chat post match with them regarding the lads and anything they may need to improve on in his/her opinion. The better referees will often ask for an opinion on their performance which I think is bloody great.

Yeah,...that surprises me as well.
The Societies will have better information than the coaches on the quality of a ref as they've been assessing the ref' for several years.
We all have bad games,....I had one a few weeks ago, but the coaches opinions of ref's are generally a woeful assessment. Until you've taken the whistle as a regular Saturday/Sunday routine, no amount of reffing your team as a coach gives you better vision than the people who are trained for it.
Nothing like as detailed as the Societies analysis.

On the few occasions when I've had problems with a coach,......they've subsequently turned out to be a dickhead with a history of being a dickhead. It's worth bearing in mind that the reffing community meets at least once a month and we discuss who is the biggest dickhead in our region. Playing or non playing staff.
But,.....Societies vary.

I personally know two of our assessors and the Society President in the county KK and they don't rate the lad, hes gone back down the pile so to speak to get more experience. Give you an idea of what hes like he was lined up to referee a semi final of the seniors cup in another county and the match previous to the semi he was given an assessor to watch his performance. He proceeded to award 61 penalties with no yellow cards at all... he never did the semi final game. Its funny that you say coaches opinions are generally woeful, in what way?

[kk67]

I personally know two of our assessors and the Society President in the county KK and they don't rate the lad, hes gone back down the pile so to speak to get more experience. Give you an idea of what hes like he was lined up to referee a semi final of the seniors cup in another county and the match previous to the semi he was given an assessor to watch his performance. He proceeded to award 61 penalties with no yellow cards at all... he never did the semi final game. Its funny that you say coaches opinions are generally woeful, in what way?

Well,...someone promoted him before demoting him. So your Society chiefs ain't all that.

Upon retirement we old farts have 2 directions. Ref' and stay part of the active game or coach and start to live life vicariously through your charges.
I chose the more difficult option.

[kk67]

The problem with "sure the referees will sort it out with sensitivity" is that they aren't and won't. Because some feckwit in a studio or agroup of them in a message board will always say "Bloody referee ruined the game it's not tiddlywinks".

This is a real problem which isn't going away. Lower tackles will actually make the game more attractive both in terms of the sort of play with the ball and rucking game most of like to see and to the casual observer or sideline mother not seeing their players/kids carted off.

Silly arse legal fecks. You feckers think law dictates rugby.
It's unfortunate that you don't actually understand rugby law,.....and rugby law is a mystery.

[Doorzetbornandbred]

What level referee are you then KK out of interest?

[kk67]

What level referee are you then KK out of interest?

I'm only 8+1....I was 43yrs old before I started reffing for the society and in retrospect I should have retired earlier. It was only the fractured shoulder blade that started me reffing. I never had any intention to become a ref'.
It just sort of happened while I was injured.