Should Israel be banned from Rugby

[belgarion]

If the citizens of Rugby want to ban Israel from entering I'm OK with it

[rowan]

If the citizens of Rugby want to ban Israel from entering I'm OK with it

The resemblance to Apartheid South Africa has just become too great to ignore.

[rowan]

It looks like Israel's running out of friends, and the relationship between the current Obama administration and Israel is frosty, at best. They're also accusing Britain of running interference against them.

The only group that would give them the time of day are the Russians and their motley bunch of lackeys.

Britain Pulled the Strings and Netanyahu Warned New Zealand It Was Declaring War: New Details on Israel's Battle Against the UN Vote

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.pre ... 6DAA5DB9EC

New Zealand replies:

riting this week in the The New Zealand Herald, the country’s biggest daily, Janfrie Wakim urged that “New Zealand, as the Western country most identified with UNSC 2334, needs to show Israel there is a cost” if it continues to ignore world opinion and violate Palestinian rights.

Wakim, spokesperson for the New Zealand Palestine Solidarity Network, proposes that the country could refuse to accept imports or Israeli visitors from the occupied West Bank and could ditch the cooperation agreement signed last year between Israel and the New Zealand Film Commission.

“We can put a stop to a range of economic and academic collaboration between Israel and New Zealand,” Wakim adds.

With a population of under five million, New Zealand has a history of standing up to bigger powers.

Precisely because it is small, its politicians are more accessible and arguably more receptive to public campaigns. And if New Zealand shifts its policy, that could in turn influence the actions of other governments.

So activists in New Zealand may want to preempt any backlash by urging their government now to declare publicly – as have Sweden, the Netherlands, Ireland, the European Union and the United States – that boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) activism is a free speech right.

In the 1980s, New Zealand angered the United States by declaring itself a “nuclear-free zone,” effectively banning visits to its ports by US navy ships – a policy that came about due to popular pressure on the government.

In the 1970s, New Zealand, along with Australia, took France to the International Court of Justice over the latter’s nuclear bomb tests in the Pacific.

New Zealand sued France again after French spies bombed the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior in Auckland harbor in 1985, killing photographer and anti-nuclear campaigner Fernando Pereira.

And New Zealand campaigners can arguably claim credit for turning the sporting boycott of apartheid South Africa into an international phenomenon with their mass protests and disruptions of the 1981 tour by the whites-only Springbok rugby team.

In 2004, New Zealand even imposed diplomatic sanctions and jailed two Israeli agents over efforts to steal New Zealand passports, likely for use in clandestine operations or assassinations.

Among the measures she proposes, Wakim urges the government of recently appointed Prime Minister Bill English to instruct the New Zealand state pension fund, called the Superannuation Fund, to follow the lead of financial institutions in other countries by divesting from Israeli banks that finance settlements.

In 2012, the Superannuation Fund divested from several Israeli firms involved in the construction of settlements.

“And [Foreign Minister] Murray McCully can tell Netanyahu we don’t like countries declaring war on New Zealand for pointing out what international law is,” Wakim concludes. “He could tell him Netanyahu doesn’t need to send his recalled ambassador back to New Zealand until Israel behaves.”

Given the precedents, Israel has good reason to be worried when the New Zealand public stirs.

Full story here: https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/al ... ment-53141

[morepork]

NZ has been aggressively courting Israeli tech entities over the past year as it looks to sell off as much early stage ip as it's underpaid scientists and engineers can churn out. For every pro-Palestine piece in that shameful rag of a periodical there are two counter arguments that aggressively side with Israeli settlers. NZ politicians would suck off an Israeli businessman whilst being pegged by a Saudi sheik as a Persian politician wanks off over their face if they thought it would help them sell out. They will do as they are told, don't worry about that.

[rowan]

NZ has been aggressively courting Israeli tech entities over the past year as it looks to sell off as much early stage ip as it's underpaid scientists and engineers can churn out. For every pro-Palestine piece in that shameful rag of a periodical there are two counter arguments that aggressively side with Israeli settlers. NZ politicians would suck off an Israeli businessman whilst being pegged by a Saudi sheik as a Persian politician wanks off over their face if they thought it would help them sell out. They will do as they are told, don't worry about that.

Wouldn't surprise me. I'm not the parochial type and am under no illusions with regards to Kiwi foreign policy and the motives therein. It always struck me as a little hypocritical that at around the same time New Zealanders were protesting over that 81 Springbok tour, they played a FIFA World Cup qualifier against Indonesia without a murmur of disapproval over the genocide in Timor. A few years later they were playing Israel themselves - again without a murmur of disapproval. & then there is the fact that at that time Maori land and cultural rights were still being denied. Incidentally, weren't the Americans and British doing nuclear tests in the Aussie Outback around the same time the French were at it in the South Pacific? Meanwhile, the only reason New Zealand can stand up to nuclear-armed Israel is not because they do fearsome hakas or anything; but rather because they are also part of the great American empire and this ultimately comes down to a squabble among siblings.

[morepork]

NZ has been aggressively courting Israeli tech entities over the past year as it looks to sell off as much early stage ip as it's underpaid scientists and engineers can churn out. For every pro-Palestine piece in that shameful rag of a periodical there are two counter arguments that aggressively side with Israeli settlers. NZ politicians would suck off an Israeli businessman whilst being pegged by a Saudi sheik as a Persian politician wanks off over their face if they thought it would help them sell out. They will do as they are told, don't worry about that.

Wouldn't surprise me. I'm not the parochial type and am under no illusions with regards to Kiwi foreign policy and the motives therein. It always struck me as a little hypocritical that at around the same time New Zealanders were protesting over that 81 Springbok tour, they played a FIFA World Cup qualifier against Indonesia without a murmur of disapproval over the genocide in Timor. A few years later they were playing Israel themselves - again without a murmur of disapproval. & then there is the fact that at that time Maori land and cultural rights were still being denied. Incidentally, weren't the Americans and British doing nuclear tests in the Aussie Outback around the same time the French were at it in the South Pacific? Meanwhile, the only reason New Zealand can stand up to nuclear-armed Israel is not because they do fearsome hakas or anything; but rather because they are also part of the great American empire and this ultimately comes down to a squabble among siblings.

Far too simple, and a little Disney. People in positions of influence in NZ politics use these positions to gain leverage with whomever they think they will profit from. USA today, China tomorrow, and so on. They aren't standing up to anything, if the US had vetoed it, McCully and his band of idiots would have asked how high they were required to jump. They are sycophantic sell out arse licking cunts. They've fucked up the country with intensive dairy farming, and IP is the new mantra in the great sell out. At least it was before the TPP got derailed. This is the prime motivation for these people at the UN. It makes me sick.

[rowan]

In fact, an Israeli political officer threatened to 'take down' a British MP. But let's talk about Boris Johnson's idiocy instead.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 15566.html

There is no starker proof of the golden chains in which Israel has entangled the British political class, than the incredible fact that “diplomat” Shai Masot has not been expelled for secretly conspiring to influence British politics by attacking Britain’s Deputy Foreign Minister, suggesting that he might be brought down by “a little scandal”. It is incredible by any normal standards of diplomatic behaviour that immediate action was not taken against Masot for actions which when revealed any professional diplomat would normally expect to result in being “PNG’d” – declared persona non grata.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... -expelled/

[belgarion]

If the citizens of Rugby want to ban Israel from entering I'm OK with it

The resemblance to Apartheid South Africa has just become too great to ignore.

I really think you haven't got a sense of humour. Th e post was meant as a joke not to be taken
seriuosly

[Digby]

Lots of teams should be banned from sports. Everyone who persecutes a population as does Israel, those who don't accord equality to homosexuals, and those who for instance refuse to give women the freedom to play sports and/or to play sports in sensible clothes. Probably not going to happen though

[rowan]

Lots of teams should be banned from sports. Everyone who persecutes a population as does Israel, those who don't accord equality to homosexuals, and those who for instance refuse to give women the freedom to play sports and/or to play sports in sensible clothes. Probably not going to happen though

You sound exactly like the Apartheid apologists of the 1980s (or at least those who defended sporting contacts with SA). & I'm old enough to remember

Yeh, Israel was at it back then too, and there was a genocide in Timor that no one seemed too bothered by. & now you've got NATO & the Saudis bombing the Middle East to smithereens. But about the most useless thing anyone can possibly do is say 'Why pick on one country?'

[cashead]

Way to answer his question. What's the distinction being drawn? Why pick on Israel only? Why not other states that openly persecute a group of people identifiable by a common feature, like specific ethnic groups or members of the LGBT community?

[rowan]

Way to answer his question. What's the distinction being drawn? Why pick on Israel only? Why not other states that openly persecute a group of people identifiable by a common feature, like specific ethnic groups or members of the LGBT community?

You, also, sound exactly like the Apartheid apologists of the 1980s (or at least those who defended sporting contacts with SA). & I'm old enough to remember

Yeh, Israel was at it back then too, and there was a genocide in Timor that no one seemed too bothered by. & now you've got NATO & the Saudis bombing the Middle East to smithereens. But about the most useless thing anyone can possibly do is say 'Why pick on one country?'

[rowan]

But if you want to ask a sensible question, and simply ask 'Why Israel? the answer is perfectly obvious: It is carrying out illegal colonization of Palestinian territories, forcing its impoverished native population to live in an open air prison, while its latest massacre of the natives a couple of years ago claimed over 2000 lives, its policies are racist and tantamount to Apartheid, and its politicians openly support the murderers of indigenous peoples. But you knew that. You're simply being belligerent for the sake of it.

[cashead]

Tell that to the Western Papuan natives, the women in Saudi Arabia (plus a multitude of others) or the LGBT community in your beloved Russia. Or hell, the refugees that wash up over in Australia that have now found themselves in shitholes like Christmas Island or Nauri camps.

Or maybe you're just being an awfully defensive baby. Literally no one has said "leave Israel alone," other than within your imagination, apparently.

[cashead]

Or I could also just say "you sound off like some buttass who only takes up trendy causes that are in vogue because it helps with their street cred or whatever, without an ounce of originality or insight, and all opinions held are merely regurgitated from elsewhere."

Or I could wait for you to provide a satisfactory response to "why is Israel being singled out here, when we maintain contacts with other shitty countries?"

[rowan]

Tell that to the Western Papuan natives, the women in Saudi Arabia (plus a multitude of others) or the LGBT community in your beloved Russia. Or hell, the refugees that wash up over in Australia that have now found themselves in shitholes like Christmas Island or Nauri camps.

Or maybe you're just being an awfully defensive baby. Literally no one has said "leave Israel alone," other than within your imagination, apparently.

Again, you parrot the catch-cries of the Apartheid apologists in the 1980s (or at least those who supported sporting contacts with SA at the time). It is also interesting that you have cited some of NATO's closest allies in your attempts to deflect attention from the issue - with the exception of Russia, which you evidently view with a degree of socially ingrained prejudice. &, no, nothing defensive about addressing the points that are raised on a thread I personally started.


"Or I could also just say "you sound off like some buttass who only takes up trendy causes that are in vogue because it helps with their street cred or whatever, without an ounce of originality or insight, and all opinions held are merely regurgitated from elsewhere."

Or I could wait for you to provide a satisfactory response to "why is Israel being singled out here, when we maintain contacts with other shitty countries?""

So you regard Israel's crimes against the Palestinians as a 'trendy' cause. No doubt you would also have judged Apartheid in South Africa as a 'trendy' cause too, then. There were plenty who did, but you won't get any of them to admit it now - because they've been proved completely and utterly wrong, and they know it. I've already responded to the question of 'why Israel is being singled out' by pointing out that posing such a question is an utterly useless stance to take. I've also answered the question of why Israel at all (a more sensible question but which wasn't actually posed) by listing the foremost of their crimes against humanity.

[cashead]

Tell that to the Western Papuan natives, the women in Saudi Arabia (plus a multitude of others) or the LGBT community in your beloved Russia. Or hell, the refugees that wash up over in Australia that have now found themselves in shitholes like Christmas Island or Nauri camps.

Or maybe you're just being an awfully defensive baby. Literally no one has said "leave Israel alone," other than within your imagination, apparently.

Again, you parrot the catch-cries of the Apartheid apologists in the 1980s (or at least those who supported sporting contacts with SA at the time). It is also interesting that you have cited some of NATO's closest allies in your attempts to deflect attention from the issue - with the exception of Russia, which you evidently view with a degree of socially ingrained prejudice. &, no, nothing defensive about addressing the points that are raised on a thread I personally started.

Criticising the Russian government for their prejudice against the Russian LGBT community equates to "ingrained prejudice," does it? Hahaha, holy shit.

I've also answered the question of why Israel at all (a more sensible question but which wasn't actually posed) by listing the foremost of their crimes against humanity.

Yes, and no one is saying "Israel shouldn't be held accountable," the question being posed is "why just them?"

[rowan]

Criticising the Russian government for their prejudice against the Russian LGBT community equates to "ingrained prejudice," does it? Hahaha, holy shit.

Yes, and no one is saying "Israel shouldn't be held accountable," the question being posed is "why just them?"

No, my comment was in response to your silly 'beloved' comment, and your ingrained prejudice against Russia has been evident on many occasions before, of course. Incidentally, if you want to talk about singling countries out, how is it that you chose Russia as your example, with prejudice against the LGBT community widespread throughout Africa, Asia, Central America and the Caribbean, and even exists within some EU and Latin American nations? So why just Russia, Cashead? GOTCHA!

[cashead]

Criticising the Russian government for their prejudice against the Russian LGBT community equates to "ingrained prejudice," does it? Hahaha, holy shit.

Yes, and no one is saying "Israel shouldn't be held accountable," the question being posed is "why just them?"

No, my comment was in response to your silly 'beloved' comment, and your ingrained prejudice against Russia has been evident on many occasions before, of course. Incidentally, if you want to talk about singling countries out, how is it that you chose Russia as your example, with prejudice against the LGBT community widespread throughout Africa, Asia, Central America and the Caribbean, and even exists within some EU and Latin American nations? So why just Russia, Cashead? GOTCHA!

It's because you're an apologist. Wasn't it obvious?

And you do realise there is a quote button, right?

[canta_brian]

Criticising the Russian government for their prejudice against the Russian LGBT community equates to "ingrained prejudice," does it? Hahaha, holy shit.

Yes, and no one is saying "Israel shouldn't be held accountable," the question being posed is "why just them?"

No, my comment was in response to your silly 'beloved' comment, and your ingrained prejudice against Russia has been evident on many occasions before, of course. Incidentally, if you want to talk about singling countries out, how is it that you chose Russia as your example, with prejudice against the LGBT community widespread throughout Africa, Asia, Central America and the Caribbean, and even exists within some EU and Latin American nations? So why just Russia, Cashead? GOTCHA!

Anyone who holds a different opinion to you is accused of playing the man. Your responses to cashead on this thread just show what an utter hypocrite you are.

[rowan]

Criticising the Russian government for their prejudice against the Russian LGBT community equates to "ingrained prejudice," does it? Hahaha, holy shit.

Yes, and no one is saying "Israel shouldn't be held accountable," the question being posed is "why just them?"

No, my comment was in response to your silly 'beloved' comment, and your ingrained prejudice against Russia has been evident on many occasions before, of course. Incidentally, if you want to talk about singling countries out, how is it that you chose Russia as your example, with prejudice against the LGBT community widespread throughout Africa, Asia, Central America and the Caribbean, and even exists within some EU and Latin American nations? So why just Russia, Cashead? GOTCHA!

Anyone who holds a different opinion to you is accused of playing the man. Your responses to cashead on this thread just show what an utter hypocrite you are.

That in itself was an extremely hypocritical comment, Canta brian, which only exposes your own lack of integrity, judgement, maturity and morality. I have quite patiently and rationally respond to the same questions again and again, despite the fact some of them are really quite pointless - and this on a thread which I personally started for debate in the topic.

[rowan]

But, again, if you want to ask a sensible question rather than just create diversions with silly ad hominems, and simply ask: 'Why Israel? the answer is perfectly obvious: It is carrying out illegal colonization of Palestinian territories, forcing its impoverished native population to live in an open air prison, while its latest massacre of the natives a couple of years ago claimed over 2000 lives, its policies are racist and tantamount to Apartheid, and its politicians openly support the murderers of indigenous peoples.

Classic:

[morepork]

Let's play a game. See how many different threads you can use the phrase"...which only exposes your own lack of...." in your penultimate thin-skinned last word.

[rowan]

It would be defined by how many threads the Russophobe brigade decided to derail with ad hominems - as you've just done youself, once again.

[morepork]

Stop being a fanny. You are an easy target.