Brexit delayed

[Stones of granite]

Not really very significant in itself, but it will no doubt ruffle some feathers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 18706.html

There was a chap interview on Radio 4 a week or so back, so likely Today or PM, and he thought we were already out having voted to leave, so he'll be cross. But other than for people that stupid it's barely news.

I agree, but it's amazing how many people there are that are that stupid.

[Digby]

http://www.thejournal.ie/ukip-wales-mot ... 4-Nov2016/

Yes, well, hard to know where to begin. He's seemingly able to breathe so there must be some brain activity

[Len]

May to give a speech on Tuesday where she is expected to announce the UK is leaving the single market.............

[Sandydragon]

May to give a speech on Tuesday where she is expected to announce the UK is leaving the single market.............

Bit inevitable really. Given the importance that immigration played in the referendum, followed fairly closely by the money paid to the EU, trying to get a solution which didn't control immigration or significantly reduce the amount paid to the EU was likely to flounder. In addition, negotiating anything in two years is crazily optimistic.

Now standby for more legal challenges and full scale rebellion in parliament.

[Len]

May to give a speech on Tuesday where she is expected to announce the UK is leaving the single market.............

Bit inevitable really. Given the importance that immigration played in the referendum, followed fairly closely by the money paid to the EU, trying to get a solution which didn't control immigration or significantly reduce the amount paid to the EU was likely to flounder. In addition, negotiating anything in two years is crazily optimistic.

Now standby for more legal challenges and full scale rebellion in parliament.

Fun times ahead. Going to sit back and point and laugh

[Adder]

Labour has been appalling during this whole process. What an implosion!!! If ever an opposition's voice neaded to be heard.

[WaspInWales]

Don't worry folks, the UK is doing great since Brexit.

Donald says so.

[Sandydragon]

Labour has been appalling during this whole process. What an implosion!!! If ever an opposition's voice neaded to be heard.

Yup. They are a joke and if they are the second largest party after the next general election they will have been lucky.

[kk67]

Labour has been appalling during this whole process. What an implosion!!! If ever an opposition's voice neaded to be heard.

Not easy when 85% of the mainstream media are controlled by right wing oligarchs.

[Adder]

Labour has been appalling during this whole process. What an implosion!!! If ever an opposition's voice neaded to be heard.

Not easy when 85% of the mainstream media are controlled by right wing oligarchs.

I don't think they imploded just because of the media. Another skidmark left by new Labour.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

[Sandydragon]

Labour has been appalling during this whole process. What an implosion!!! If ever an opposition's voice neaded to be heard.

Not easy when 85% of the mainstream media are controlled by right wing oligarchs.

I don't think they imploded just because of the media. Another skidmark left by new Labour.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

Or it could be that they are playing a tune people don't want to listen to. New Labour died years ago, strange that they still get blamed for Labour incompetence.

[Digby]

Labour has been appalling during this whole process. What an implosion!!! If ever an opposition's voice neaded to be heard.

Not easy when 85% of the mainstream media are controlled by right wing oligarchs.

Meh, Corbyn will get coverage of his speeches just because of his role, the problem is he goes silent for long periods, and when he does speak out has if not an inconsistent message then certainly a scattergun approach. Corbyn also tends to be vague and not have a coherent narrative for how he'd actually govern, and so we get no to trident but yes to building the subs which will be empty of the trident missiles they were designed to carry. In essence he's a bloke who rants in pub, not a leader on the national and international stage, and then of course he's further over to the left than most people are in what's essentially a centre right country and he either lacks the savy to realise appointing IRA staff to his team is a shite idea or he just doesn't care.

[Adder]

Not easy when 85% of the mainstream media are controlled by right wing oligarchs.

I don't think they imploded just because of the media. Another skidmark left by new Labour.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

Or it could be that they are playing a tune people don't want to listen to. New Labour died years ago, strange that they still get blamed for Labour incompetence.

Probably... can't say the have shone since.

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[kk67]

Better that someone is telling uncomfortable truths than the opposition are just agreeing with rightwing disinformation.

[morepork]

Not easy when 85% of the mainstream media are controlled by right wing oligarchs.

I don't think they imploded just because of the media. Another skidmark left by new Labour.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

Or it could be that they are playing a tune people don't want to listen to. New Labour died years ago, strange that they still get blamed for Labour incompetence.

What the fuck are you on about? What do people want to listen to? You are happy with the slip and slide we are on currently?

[Sandydragon]

I don't think they imploded just because of the media. Another skidmark left by new Labour.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

Or it could be that they are playing a tune people don't want to listen to. New Labour died years ago, strange that they still get blamed for Labour incompetence.

What the fuck are you on about? What do people want to listen to? You are happy with the slip and slide we are on currently?

What Im on bout is this failure by Corbyn and his supporters to realise that their message isn't appealing to wide sectors of the electorate. Blaming the media or New Labour is getting a bit tiresome. The Corbyn message and its delivery aren't appealing to voters - its really that simple.

As for where we are now, my view is things could be a lot worse, namely as a result of a Corbyn socialist government. The Conservatives need an opposition, but Corbyn is a laughing stock and he is dragging Labour down with him.

[Sandydragon]

I don't think they imploded just because of the media. Another skidmark left by new Labour.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

Or it could be that they are playing a tune people don't want to listen to. New Labour died years ago, strange that they still get blamed for Labour incompetence.

Probably... can't say the have shone since.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

Bit confused - are you suggesting that getting rid of New Labour was a good or bad thing for the Labour party (notwithstanding its ability to win elections of course)?

[morepork]

Or it could be that they are playing a tune people don't want to listen to. New Labour died years ago, strange that they still get blamed for Labour incompetence.

What the fuck are you on about? What do people want to listen to? You are happy with the slip and slide we are on currently?

What Im on bout is this failure by Corbyn and his supporters to realise that their message isn't appealing to wide sectors of the electorate. Blaming the media or New Labour is getting a bit tiresome. The Corbyn message and its delivery aren't appealing to voters - its really that simple.

As for where we are now, my view is things could be a lot worse, namely as a result of a Corbyn socialist government. The Conservatives need an opposition, but Corbyn is a laughing stock and he is dragging Labour down with him.

Is he really as rabid a socialist as is portrayed by the media? Even in NZ his name is a byword for loony lefties in statements that are dismissive of anything other than this mythical centrist ground. Note that there is very little adult debate about policy. How do you expect to have an effective opposition if the opposition is bludgeoned into this space?

[fivepointer]

No, he just isnt very good.

There is certainly an opportunity for a well led centre left party to make real headway at the minute. Alas we have Labour who have committed the grave error of electing a leader who lacks the qualities required of someone in his position. He is so patently out of his depth, comes with such divisive baggage and limited appeal that the party has effectively nobbled itself.

[kk67]

No, he just isnt very good.

You mean he's not good at personality politics..?.
Well the new world order seem to be very good at personality politics.....so we can all be optimistic now that the businessmen are off the leash.

I've never wanted politicians who are good on the telly. That's Kardashian Politics.
I want people who will police the political sphere. God help me but I want bureaucrats who will police the businessmen, the accountants..... and the political sphere.

[Digby]

No, he just isnt very good.

You mean he's not good at personality politics..?.
Well the new world order seem to be very good at personality politics.....so we can all be optimistic now that the businessmen are off the leash.

I've never wanted politicians who are good on the telly. That's Kardashian Politics.
I want people who will police the political sphere. God help me but I want bureaucrats who will police the businessmen, the accountants..... and the political sphere.

Then at least you've got May, who's competent in her role as leader and poor on TV. As opposed to Jeremy who's incompetent in his role as leader and poor on TV. I wouldn't mind that so much if I didn't dislike May's policies so much, but it'd be daft to say it's about personality when May has only recently become the PM

[Sandydragon]

What the fuck are you on about? What do people want to listen to? You are happy with the slip and slide we are on currently?

What Im on bout is this failure by Corbyn and his supporters to realise that their message isn't appealing to wide sectors of the electorate. Blaming the media or New Labour is getting a bit tiresome. The Corbyn message and its delivery aren't appealing to voters - its really that simple.

As for where we are now, my view is things could be a lot worse, namely as a result of a Corbyn socialist government. The Conservatives need an opposition, but Corbyn is a laughing stock and he is dragging Labour down with him.

Is he really as rabid a socialist as is portrayed by the media? Even in NZ his name is a byword for loony lefties in statements that are dismissive of anything other than this mythical centrist ground. Note that there is very little adult debate about policy. How do you expect to have an effective opposition if the opposition is bludgeoned into this space?

Its a space that he has happily and actively moved into. By any definition, he is well to the left of any British government since the 1970s.

With regards to personality, I sympathise with the view that politics should be less about TV appeal and more about competence. But, a leader should be able to communicate effectively. Corbyn contradicts himself within the space of a day and his key subordinates often sing a different tune to his own. How is it an effective opposition that is looking to become a government when they cant even get a clear message out?

[Digby]

What Im on bout is this failure by Corbyn and his supporters to realise that their message isn't appealing to wide sectors of the electorate. Blaming the media or New Labour is getting a bit tiresome. The Corbyn message and its delivery aren't appealing to voters - its really that simple.

As for where we are now, my view is things could be a lot worse, namely as a result of a Corbyn socialist government. The Conservatives need an opposition, but Corbyn is a laughing stock and he is dragging Labour down with him.

Is he really as rabid a socialist as is portrayed by the media? Even in NZ his name is a byword for loony lefties in statements that are dismissive of anything other than this mythical centrist ground. Note that there is very little adult debate about policy. How do you expect to have an effective opposition if the opposition is bludgeoned into this space?

Its a space that he has happily and actively moved into. By any definition, he is well to the left of any British government since the 1970s.

With regards to personality, I sympathise with the view that politics should be less about TV appeal and more about competence. But, a leader should be able to communicate effectively. Corbyn contradicts himself within the space of a day and his key subordinates often sing a different tune to his own. How is it an effective opposition that is looking to become a government when they cant even get a clear message out?

Also his key staff are themselves poor performers, which isn't surprising given the sane options in the labour parliamentary party don't want anything to do with him, but it doesn't help put any sort of credible platform forward

[Eugene Wrayburn]

What Im on bout is this failure by Corbyn and his supporters to realise that their message isn't appealing to wide sectors of the electorate. Blaming the media or New Labour is getting a bit tiresome. The Corbyn message and its delivery aren't appealing to voters - its really that simple.

As for where we are now, my view is things could be a lot worse, namely as a result of a Corbyn socialist government. The Conservatives need an opposition, but Corbyn is a laughing stock and he is dragging Labour down with him.

Is he really as rabid a socialist as is portrayed by the media? Even in NZ his name is a byword for loony lefties in statements that are dismissive of anything other than this mythical centrist ground. Note that there is very little adult debate about policy. How do you expect to have an effective opposition if the opposition is bludgeoned into this space?

Its a space that he has happily and actively moved into. By any definition, he is well to the left of any British government since the 1970s.

With regards to personality, I sympathise with the view that politics should be less about TV appeal and more about competence. But, a leader should be able to communicate effectively. Corbyn contradicts himself within the space of a day and his key subordinates often sing a different tune to his own. How is it an effective opposition that is looking to become a government when they cant even get a clear message out?

It's not a question of moving into the space so much as always having been in it.

[Mellsblue]

Is he really as rabid a socialist as is portrayed by the media? Even in NZ his name is a byword for loony lefties in statements that are dismissive of anything other than this mythical centrist ground. Note that there is very little adult debate about policy. How do you expect to have an effective opposition if the opposition is bludgeoned into this space?

Its a space that he has happily and actively moved into. By any definition, he is well to the left of any British government since the 1970s.

With regards to personality, I sympathise with the view that politics should be less about TV appeal and more about competence. But, a leader should be able to communicate effectively. Corbyn contradicts himself within the space of a day and his key subordinates often sing a different tune to his own. How is it an effective opposition that is looking to become a government when they cant even get a clear message out?

It's not a question of moving into the space so much as always having been in it.

Yep. If anything he's tempered his thoughts on a few issues and moved towards the middle ground, eg the EU and nuclear power, whilst, of course, not fully commiting to the new stance and showing himself to be indecisive.