Slavery.

[Lord Lucan]

Are you free?

[BBD]

the important question is actually, what would you do with your "freedom" if you had it

[WaspInWales]

the important question is actually, what would you do with your "freedom" if you had it

Post videos from YouTube urging the masses to have their red pill moment and to seek the 'truth about...' whatever.

The guy who made that video is a complete douche:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux

It's no surprise Lucan is a fan.

[morepork]

Fucking internets. A platform for all manner of mutant to spew their views on cultural identity and philosophy in laughable pseudo scientific gift wrapping from the dollar shop. Why do all of these weirdos have white supremacy skeletons in their closets?

[WaspInWales]

Stefan Molyneux:

[BBD]

Usually the answer is not fundamentally that different from what you already do, i.e. you already are free, including free to whinge about how you are enslaved when most of our "enslavement" is self imposed or in the form of an exchange relationship for goods and services. If you want to encourage people to opt out of that and live off the grid then I suggest that the internet is probably the worst place to start.

I tried to find a copy of an old joke that sums it up, but couldn't, the premise is that a bloke sees an Indian/aboriginine type fella lying out under a tree and says why don't you get a job, the Indian says why should I do that? the exchange continues with a series of justifications about working hard, getting promoted, earning more and more money and the Indian keeps asking what the point of those achievements is, until eventually the bloke summarises that when he has enough money he can retire from work and just lounge about all day. The punchline (the only bit of the thing I can remember) is "thats what Im doing now"

[Sandydragon]

Usually the answer is not fundamentally that different from what you already do, i.e. you already are free, including free to whinge about how you are enslaved when most of our "enslavement" is self imposed or in the form of an exchange relationship for goods and services. If you want to encourage people to opt out of that and live off the grid then I suggest that the internet is probably the worst place to start.

I tried to find a copy of an old joke that sums it up, but couldn't, the premise is that a bloke sees an Indian/aboriginine type fella lying out under a tree and says why don't you get a job, the Indian says why should I do that? the exchange continues with a series of justifications about working hard, getting promoted, earning more and more money and the Indian keeps asking what the point of those achievements is, until eventually the bloke summarises that when he has enough money he can retire from work and just lounge about all day. The punchline (the only bit of the thing I can remember) is "thats what Im doing now"

I'm guessing that people who have suffered genuine slavery would give their right arm for the opportunity to be paid for their work and to moan about not being free...

[SerjeantWildgoose]

I had an interesting debate in Liberia with my driver (Who was a relatively wealthy Liberian as he earned $300/month) and an American USMC officer. The young officer was of the view that America owed him and his relatives phenomenal reparations in recompense for the kidnapping, enforced transportation and enslavement of his ancestors. I took the view that while slavery was an undeniable wrong, the generations of today and in the future could not be held accountable for the 'crimes' of 200 years ago.

My driver chipped in with a miserably compelling argument. According to him, he would have gladly endured slavery if, 200 years on, his descendants were able to enjoy the opportunities that are available to the African-Americans of today. I suppose you have to be confronted with real hopelessness to see the positive side of slavery?

[Sandydragon]

I had an interesting debate in Liberia with my driver (Who was a relatively wealthy Liberian as he earned $300/month) and an American USMC officer. The young officer was of the view that America owed him and his relatives phenomenal reparations in recompense for the kidnapping, enforced transportation and enslavement of his ancestors. I took the view that while slavery was an undeniable wrong, the generations of today and in the future could not be held accountable for the 'crimes' of 200 years ago.

My driver chipped in with a miserably compelling argument. According to him, he would have gladly endured slavery if, 200 years on, his descendants were able to enjoy the opportunities that are available to the African-Americans of today. I suppose you have to be confronted with real hopelessness to see the positive side of slavery?

Totally agree. Plus, given the role the UK took in eradicating slavery I see no reason to feel bad for something that happened several generations before I was born.

[BBD]

see how easy these bastards forget 800 years of oppression???

Im off to listen to the Wolftones

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Feck your Wolftones I've a Horslips outside!

[BBD]

You'll be needing a bigger shovel

[OptimisticJock]

I work for the nhs and army does that count?

[BBD]

only if you have to buy your own bandages and bullets

[Vengeful Glutton]

Freedom is different things to different people. The sioux indians, or Zulu warriors' concept of freedom would seem odd to us.

Freedom in the 21st century is underpinned by consumerism, and technology.

Curiously, as civilisations advance, they develop similar characteristics to insect colonies.

Whatever your idea of freedom is, remember that it is not true freedom, unless it has to be stolen.

[Vengeful Glutton]

I had an interesting debate in Liberia with my driver (Who was a relatively wealthy Liberian as he earned $300/month) and an American USMC officer. The young officer was of the view that America owed him and his relatives phenomenal reparations in recompense for the kidnapping, enforced transportation and enslavement of his ancestors. I took the view that while slavery was an undeniable wrong, the generations of today and in the future could not be held accountable for the 'crimes' of 200 years ago.

My driver chipped in with a miserably compelling argument. According to him, he would have gladly endured slavery if, 200 years on, his descendants were able to enjoy the opportunities that are available to the African-Americans of today. I suppose you have to be confronted with real hopelessness to see the positive side of slavery?

Slavery, like poverty is a relative phenomenon. Imperial Rome was run by slaves. It probably seemed was as normal to them as corporatism seems to every consumer drone currently "living the dream". The biggest problem facing Roman slaves was the arrival of Christianity; slaves actually rebelled against and resisted being given their freedom! In any case the Romans only started to give slaves freedom to bring taxpayers into existence, to help finance for the onerous bureaucracy that kept the Empire administered.

Contrary to popular belief, the Americans did not abolish slavery, and the British role in abolition was not altruistic; British industrialists lobbied to have it abolished because they were worried about slave labour undercutting their profit margins. No different to the Union opposing the secession of confederate states (the great Emancipator declared that secession was constitutional, and then changed his mind )

[Sandydragon]

Many of the key campaigners in the British anti skavery movement were altruistic and kept up considerable pressure, even passing acts of Parliament that gradually made slave ownership unprofitable until they could get a majority to oppose it.

I'm not suggesting that Britain woke up one day and went on a moral crusade, but given that some want us to feel bad about our history, I see no reason to airbrush out some of the good things that we have done.

[Vengeful Glutton]

Many of the key campaigners in the British anti skavery movement were altruistic and kept up considerable pressure, even passing acts of Parliament that gradually made slave ownership unprofitable until they could get a majority to oppose it.

I'm not suggesting that Britain woke up one day and went on a moral crusade, but given that some want us to feel bad about our history, I see no reason to airbrush out some of the good things that we have done.

Christianity played a bigger role in the abolition movement. Imperial Britain itself had its own practical reasons for hopping on the bandwagon.

I don't disagree that the modern Brit should feel bad about British Imperial history, mind. The bad stuff is always going to be highlighted because that's what gets people yakking.

Mongols, Romans, or more recently, the Nips and Krauts during WW2 were far more brutal. Sadists, as far as I'm concerned. I'm surprised the seppos didn't drop a bomb on Germany, and a few more on Japan.

[zer0]

I'm surprised the seppos didn't drop a bomb on Germany, and a few more on Japan.

Germany surrendering before the Americans were finished development might've had something to do with it.

EDIT: Plus the Red Army had already steamrolled its way to victory, so it would've been utterly superfluous.

[Lord Lucan]

Who is doing what they want right now? do you have to be somewhere tomorrow? does 40 hours or so of your week belong to someone else?
Not sure about Blighty but income tax in the US was only supposed to be paid by companies, somehow it expanded so everyone should pay it, it isn't written into the law.

The problem is we were all born into this system so cannot see it any other way, it feels and looks normal, an example of someone who is not a slave who everyone is familiar with would be a Pikey, they live off their wits, always on the move from the long arm of the inland revenue & others, which is why they are demonized by the media, they are not proper "cows" as the youtube video described us all, which is why there are many other "cows" pointing the finger at them as outlaws.

See how money works for those that don't already know, its quick and straight to the point, I expect there will be many "cows" among you who will put the mockers on it, and thats because you are a fully conditioned "cow."

[Lord Lucan]

Many of the key campaigners in the British anti skavery movement were altruistic and kept up considerable pressure, even passing acts of Parliament that gradually made slave ownership unprofitable until they could get a majority to oppose it.

I'm not suggesting that Britain woke up one day and went on a moral crusade, but given that some want us to feel bad about our history, I see no reason to airbrush out some of the good things that we have done.

Christianity played a bigger role in the abolition movement. Imperial Britain itself had its own practical reasons for hopping on the bandwagon.

I don't disagree that the modern Brit should feel bad about British Imperial history, mind. The bad stuff is always going to be highlighted because that's what gets people yakking.

Mongols, Romans, or more recently, the Nips and Krauts during WW2 were far more brutal. Sadists, as far as I'm concerned. I'm surprised the seppos didn't drop a bomb on Germany, and a few more on Japan.

It would have taken the gloss off the victory, a bit like if Ali had hit Foreman while he was on his way to the canvas, he had his arm cocked ready to deliver but realized it wasn't needed.
It would have been interesting though, to see what an atomic bomb does to a city built from masonry instead of wood. Mind you they would have had a difficult, if not nigh on impossible job of finding a German city that wasn't already pulverized.
On another point, I'd have been tempted to let the Russians devour the whole of Germany, they deserved it. The allied armies could have stayed on the Rhine and stopped any Germans escaping their doom.

[Sandydragon]

Many of the key campaigners in the British anti skavery movement were altruistic and kept up considerable pressure, even passing acts of Parliament that gradually made slave ownership unprofitable until they could get a majority to oppose it.

I'm not suggesting that Britain woke up one day and went on a moral crusade, but given that some want us to feel bad about our history, I see no reason to airbrush out some of the good things that we have done.

Christianity played a bigger role in the abolition movement. Imperial Britain itself had its own practical reasons for hopping on the bandwagon.

I don't disagree that the modern Brit should feel bad about British Imperial history, mind. The bad stuff is always going to be highlighted because that's what gets people yakking.

Mongols, Romans, or more recently, the Nips and Krauts during WW2 were far more brutal. Sadists, as far as I'm concerned. I'm surprised the seppos didn't drop a bomb on Germany, and a few more on Japan.

There was the research in the 1940s that suggested that the price of sugar was making slavery uneconomical, but this has recently been refuted. At the point of abolition, the sugar trade was very profitable.

There are of course strategic reasons why abolishing slavery was also on the table; and strategic reasons during the debate when it was very much off the table.

[morepork]

Lucan, that banking vid is hardly a revelation. I am unhappy with the current attempts to erode financial regulation.

[Vengeful Glutton]

Who is doing what they want right now? do you have to be somewhere tomorrow? does 40 hours or so of your week belong to someone else?
Not sure about Blighty but income tax in the US was only supposed to be paid by companies, somehow it expanded so everyone should pay it, it isn't written into the law.

The problem is we were all born into this system so cannot see it any other way, it feels and looks normal, an example of someone who is not a slave who everyone is familiar with would be a Pikey, they live off their wits, always on the move from the long arm of the inland revenue & others, which is why they are demonized by the media, they are not proper "cows" as the youtube video described us all, which is why there are many other "cows" pointing the finger at them as outlaws.

See how money works for those that don't already know, its quick and straight to the point, I expect there will be many "cows" among you who will put the mockers on it, and thats because you are a fully conditioned "cow."

Usura radix omnia malorum.

Agree about Pikeys btw. I got quite friendly with a few, and they're as free as birds, despite having to live off their wits.

Feral cats are far smarter than their pampered, infantilised & domesticated counterparts, and they're free!

[WaspInWales]

Meh.

I have choice in my life, and to me that choice equates to quite a bit of freedom. A stable home environment where I can live and work in the place of my choosing, where I can bring up my kids where I choose, educate them in a school of my choice and also continue my education as an adult. I also work in a job I enjoy doing, after working quite a few other jobs that I have enjoyed doing. I've worked some shitty jobs too.

I can choose to live my life like a pikey, but then I would have to give up certain comforts that I enjoy now.

My guess is that many of those complaining about this kind of slavery are just simply not happy with their lot. Perhaps they've fucked up any chance they've had at a job they would enjoy doing, perhaps as a result of not doing well enough during their education and possibly even, not being able to work in a system where they're not in charge. Maybe, they've even spent their adult lives getting ridiculously into debt and as a result of the following despair, the only feasible way out for them is to deny the systems that enabled them to get to that stage. The 'legal name' billboards seem to go hand in hand with these kind of people.

I'm free enough to enjoy doing what I want to do on a regular basis. I'm happy with that. Am I free of taxes? No. Am I free of governance? No. Does that make me a slave. Absolutely no.

Yes, the banking system is fucked up. Surely most people would support regulations and restrictions that could help prevent the collapse of such markets, but the OP is an avid fan of Trump who has made it no secret that would like to remove such restrictions and regulations.

Governments, politicians and the law are open to abuse and corruption, but take those systems out of play and you're still left with people who want to take power, con people and manipulate, or all of the above.

As for using 'pikeys' as the gold standard for living. Where does it start and where does it end?

If everyone just went about their business by whatever means, how does that work?

Where do people live? Who builds their dwellings? Where does one's boundaries end? Is everything resolved with a bare knuckle fist fight? What about supply and demand? If you have a product that others want, how do you go about selling it, or manufacturing it for that matter? How about intellectual property of one's designs and inventions?

Again, it just seems like the arguments are made by those who have reached rock bottom in terms of failure and the inability to achieve success.

Listening to some of these twats of YouTube and the like, and I can't help thinking that they are just completely disappointed with where they are. Reduced to begging for donations for their rants in order to pay the bills. Scared of the real world where they think people with a different skin colour, sex or religion may have a better life than themselves.

What is freedom?

Is it to do what you want, when you want, to whomever you want and sod the consequences?

Or is it more about money, and/or the lack of?