EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[Banquo]

JJ is a massive surprise. If it is a straight drop rather than a request from Bath etc, I'd be very, very disappointed. Sinkler is a strange one, too. I had hope of him being first choice by the World Cup. Williams must've been seriously impressive in Argentina.

On Billy's interview on R2, I heard the first five mins. Now, we all know Billy's not the sharpest but for Chris Evans to be taking the piss out of professional, world class athlete about his pre-match routine was effing ridiculous. You're a bloody aging DJ and failed Top Gear presenter. At Billy's age you were driving a forklift around a warehouse and doing local radio. At twice his age you spent a year pissed, travelling round the world shagging Billie Piper (I'll admit to a slight bit of jealousy here) just because you've now run a couple of half marathons what gives you the right to laugh at a pro-rugby player. Smug prat. Rant over.

I thought he was more incredulous than pi55 taking; pretty sure BV also amusingly dropped the f bomb. I'm not sure letting Billy chat without some chaperoning is a great idea, given what he also said re the Lions.

On Evans.....makes me laugh, is worth millions, and has seen his share of decent 'action'- and does raise a bomb for charidee. Fair play, I say- though he is marmite in extremis.

I thought I heard the f word, too.
I'm not totally anti-Evans. I was listening to his show after all. I think he's a bit smug in general, who wouldn't be with his bank balance, but it was this particular example I was calling him a smug prat over. That he's made a success of life and raises plenty for charity I can't argue against. Something that does rankle is that he implores people to give to charity whilst having eight figures worth of cars in his garage. I don't begrudge anyone making loadsa money but don't be holier than thou when you could build a school if you sold the contents of your garage.

Hmm....so you are saying rich people shouldn't waste their time raising money, they should just give their own money away? . Again, don't think he is preachy about the charity, and in fact unashamedly creates events where people 'get something' for the money...which may be a bit too pragmatic, but very effective. As you say, don't like it, don't listen.

[Banquo]

Indicative...yes, just edited.

We may genuinely find out who our best international 13 is soon if JJ is not recalled. Te'o and Daly can't do much more, Slade is as gifted as they come and nobody has had a run at 13 besides Joseph for 3 years.

Joseph was dropped by Bath and said recently that he was distracted last season by off field stuff. Maybe this is the boot up the bum he needs. Eddie has used the stick and got a reaction out of JJ before, so let's wait and see.

fair enough, I just think JJ has done enough to at least have a shot at retaining the jersey; he's got the edge over all of the above in differing ways for me, and delivers internationally.

[Mellsblue]

I thought he was more incredulous than pi55 taking; pretty sure BV also amusingly dropped the f bomb. I'm not sure letting Billy chat without some chaperoning is a great idea, given what he also said re the Lions.

On Evans.....makes me laugh, is worth millions, and has seen his share of decent 'action'- and does raise a bomb for charidee. Fair play, I say- though he is marmite in extremis.

I thought I heard the f word, too.
I'm not totally anti-Evans. I was listening to his show after all. I think he's a bit smug in general, who wouldn't be with his bank balance, but it was this particular example I was calling him a smug prat over. That he's made a success of life and raises plenty for charity I can't argue against. Something that does rankle is that he implores people to give to charity whilst having eight figures worth of cars in his garage. I don't begrudge anyone making loadsa money but don't be holier than thou when you could build a school if you sold the contents of your garage.

Hmm....so you are saying rich people shouldn't waste their time raising money, they should just give their own money away? . Again, don't think he is preachy about the charity, and in fact unashamedly creates events where people 'get something' for the money...which may be a bit too pragmatic, but very effective. As you say, don't like it, don't listen.

Yep I think they should give a lot of their own money away. Why does he need 10 cars? Not saying he doesn't do a lot of good and that he should stop. In fact, I remember the hullabaloo over the auctions he runs on R2, that only the wealthy can afford to get in on the action and why don't the everyday folk get a chance. My thoughts were who gives a s**t about it only being wealthy people, the idea is to raise as much money as possible. As I say, nothing against making money. Just don't have millions of pounds worth of cars, a yacht etc, etc and then pleaded for others to donate money.
Anyway, back to JJ......

[Banquo]

Am I allowed to say that I thought Slade looked pretty good at the weekend? Also that he could play either position because 12 and 13 are literally the same.

you may. It's the same as your judgement on when to pass though.

(though Mikey has been passing a lot more recently)

Slades a good player, just not my idea of a 13 at intl level.

[Banquo]

I thought I heard the f word, too.
I'm not totally anti-Evans. I was listening to his show after all. I think he's a bit smug in general, who wouldn't be with his bank balance, but it was this particular example I was calling him a smug prat over. That he's made a success of life and raises plenty for charity I can't argue against. Something that does rankle is that he implores people to give to charity whilst having eight figures worth of cars in his garage. I don't begrudge anyone making loadsa money but don't be holier than thou when you could build a school if you sold the contents of your garage.

Hmm....so you are saying rich people shouldn't waste their time raising money, they should just give their own money away? . Again, don't think he is preachy about the charity, and in fact unashamedly creates events where people 'get something' for the money...which may be a bit too pragmatic, but very effective. As you say, don't like it, don't listen.

Yep I think they should give a lot of their own money away. Why does he need 10 cars? Not saying he doesn't do a lot of good and that he should stop. In fact, I remember the hullabaloo over the auctions he runs on R2, that only the wealthy can afford to get in on the action and why don't the everyday folk get a chance. My thoughts were who gives a s**t about it only being wealthy people, the idea is to raise as much money as possible. As I say, nothing against making money. Just don't have millions of pounds worth of cars, a yacht etc, etc and then pleaded for others to donate money.
Anyway, back to JJ......

He's not pleading for donations though, other than the standard children in need stuff, but milking rich people for events, and for all we know, may give his own money to other charities. Whatevs

[Oakboy]

Indicative...yes, just edited.

We may genuinely find out who our best international 13 is soon if JJ is not recalled. Te'o and Daly can't do much more, Slade is as gifted as they come and nobody has had a run at 13 besides Joseph for 3 years.

Joseph was dropped by Bath and said recently that he was distracted last season by off field stuff. Maybe this is the boot up the bum he needs. Eddie has used the stick and got a reaction out of JJ before, so let's wait and see.

fair enough, I just think JJ has done enough to at least have a shot at retaining the jersey; he's got the edge over all of the above in differing ways for me, and delivers internationally.

Maybe, that's the point - that he used to deliver but does not any more, to the extent that Eddie requires, whether it's his fault completely or not. His absence may prove your point about his defence, of course.

For years, I did not rate JJ at club level but his performances for England changed my mind. His later performances would not have done, I have to say, and I think something has gone missing from his attacking effectiveness. His place in the pattern of play (presumably, as coached), has meant him not getting the ball that he used to thrive on as we see it. Eddie obviously sees it differently. Is it a failure to conform, a failure to be a bit maverick (in the risk-taking sense) or can he simply not fit the structure being selected around him?

[Banquo]

Indicative...yes, just edited.

We may genuinely find out who our best international 13 is soon if JJ is not recalled. Te'o and Daly can't do much more, Slade is as gifted as they come and nobody has had a run at 13 besides Joseph for 3 years.

Joseph was dropped by Bath and said recently that he was distracted last season by off field stuff. Maybe this is the boot up the bum he needs. Eddie has used the stick and got a reaction out of JJ before, so let's wait and see.

fair enough, I just think JJ has done enough to at least have a shot at retaining the jersey; he's got the edge over all of the above in differing ways for me, and delivers internationally.

Maybe, that's the point - that he used to deliver but does not any more, to the extent that Eddie requires, whether it's his fault completely or not. His absence may prove your point about his defence, of course.

For years, I did not rate JJ at club level but his performances for England changed my mind. His later performances would not have done, I have to say, and I think something has gone missing from his attacking effectiveness. His place in the pattern of play (presumably, as coached), has meant him not getting the ball that he used to thrive on as we see it. Eddie obviously sees it differently. Is it a failure to conform, a failure to be a bit maverick (in the risk-taking sense) or can he simply not fit the structure being selected around him?

Talk me through JJ's last but one game for England. Talk about short memories.
Think about how England played in the last 6N, and your repeated attacks on Youngs, Ford and Farrell as an axis. Think about the quality of ball produced outside 1st phase.

[Mikey Brown]

Am I allowed to say that I thought Slade looked pretty good at the weekend? Also that he could play either position because 12 and 13 are literally the same.

you may. It's the same as your judgement on when to pass though.

(though Mikey has been passing a lot more recently)

Slades a good player, just not my idea of a 13 at intl level.

Not mine either to be honest. Obviously I'm a bit mad for his ball skills but I dread the idea he'll only get a chance outside a poorly balanced Ford/Faz combo, fail to shine, and become another Matthew Tait.

[Banquo]

Am I allowed to say that I thought Slade looked pretty good at the weekend? Also that he could play either position because 12 and 13 are literally the same.

you may. It's the same as your judgement on when to pass though.

(though Mikey has been passing a lot more recently)

Slades a good player, just not my idea of a 13 at intl level.

Not mine either to be honest. Obviously I'm a bit mad for his ball skills but I dread the idea he'll only get a chance outside a poorly balanced Ford/Faz combo, fail to shine, and become another Matthew Tait.

Simpler to trade up on faz at 12 imo, if eddie is set on having ersatz 10's at 12.

[kk67]

you may. It's the same as your judgement on when to pass though.

(though Mikey has been passing a lot more recently)

Slades a good player, just not my idea of a 13 at intl level.

Not mine either to be honest. Obviously I'm a bit mad for his ball skills but I dread the idea he'll only get a chance outside a poorly balanced Ford/Faz combo, fail to shine, and become another Matthew Tait.

Simpler to trade up on faz at 12 imo, if eddie is set on having ersatz 10's at 12.

It seems to be working better than having ersatz 11+14 playing at full back, a situation that England fans had to suffer for so many attempts.

[Banquo]

Not mine either to be honest. Obviously I'm a bit mad for his ball skills but I dread the idea he'll only get a chance outside a poorly balanced Ford/Faz combo, fail to shine, and become another Matthew Tait.

Simpler to trade up on faz at 12 imo, if eddie is set on having ersatz 10's at 12.

It seems to be working better than having ersatz 11+14 playing at full back, a situation that England fans had to suffer for so many attempts.

tallest dwarf type argument

[Tom Moore]

Am I allowed to say that I thought Slade looked pretty good at the weekend? Also that he could play either position because 12 and 13 are literally the same.

you may. It's the same as your judgement on when to pass though.

(though Mikey has been passing a lot more recently)

Slades a good player, just not my idea of a 13 at intl level.

Agree with this. I think that we need one centre who is a strike running threat, and if you have Farrell at 12 and Slade at 13 (for all the other qualities they bring), in terms of running our centre pairing is about as frightening as an enraged baby chicken.

[Banquo]

Am I allowed to say that I thought Slade looked pretty good at the weekend? Also that he could play either position because 12 and 13 are literally the same.

you may. It's the same as your judgement on when to pass though.

(though Mikey has been passing a lot more recently)

Slades a good player, just not my idea of a 13 at intl level.

Agree with this. I think that we need one centre who is a strike running threat, and if you have Farrell at 12 and Slade at 13 (for all the other qualities they bring), in terms of running our centre pairing is about as frightening as an enraged baby chicken.

Both centres imo have to offer a running threat; to me, the as yet untried combo of Teo and JJ is worth a look.

[Mellsblue]

The Times are reporting that Joseph and Sinkler's non-selection are based solely on player performance. The piece goes further to say that Sinkler wouldn't have made the Arg tour were he not picked for the lions and Jones has worries about Joseph ability to impose himself physically on a game.

[Tom Moore]

you may. It's the same as your judgement on when to pass though.

(though Mikey has been passing a lot more recently)

Slades a good player, just not my idea of a 13 at intl level.

Agree with this. I think that we need one centre who is a strike running threat, and if you have Farrell at 12 and Slade at 13 (for all the other qualities they bring), in terms of running our centre pairing is about as frightening as an enraged baby chicken.

Both centres imo have to offer a running threat; to me, the as yet untried combo of Teo and JJ is worth a look.

I'd prefer both, in the same way I'd prefer both to be able to pass and kick.

This seems unlikely though, so at the moment I'd settle for one and a playmaker.

My worry with Te'o and JJ is how much decent ball would get outside the 13 channel. Also, I think the two playmaker option has gone well. I think we could leverage Farrell's lack of run threat with more motion running off him.

[Oakboy]

Both centres imo have to offer a running threat; to me, the as yet untried combo of Teo and JJ is worth a look.

Which F would you drop?

[Oakboy]

Banquo, just read your comments on the GvW thread. I only saw the first 30 minutes so missed Teo's performance. Based on Eddie's squad, with no JJ, we can probably expect Farrell/T'eo at 12/13 with an outside chance of T'eo/Slade at some point. Whilst I would prefer the 2nd pairing, I'd fear that it would be outside Farrell. T'eo at 12 demands Ford's speed and accuracy of pass, IMO.

[Raggs]

Would you take Slade at 13 over Daly?

[Oakboy]

Would you take Slade at 13 over Daly?

I'd want both as things stand. If it was a straight choice I'd probably pick Daley. However, there are no better wingers than Daley, assuming that Watson is at FB. Those two in the back three are certainties in our best XV, IMO. Solomona, May and Nowell can fight for one place unless Brown drinks from the fountain of youth.

[Scrumhead]

Banquo, just read your comments on the GvW thread. I only saw the first 30 minutes so missed Teo's performance. Based on Eddie's squad, with no JJ, we can probably expect Farrell/T'eo at 12/13 with an outside chance of T'eo/Slade at some point. Whilst I would prefer the 2nd pairing, I'd fear that it would be outside Farrell. T'eo at 12 demands Ford's speed and accuracy of pass, IMO.

This is pure speculation. This is a training squad. We're not actually playing a game, so trying to second-guess a side is pointless.

The main quote of Eddie's I'd take away from the Times article is: "I wouldn't jump at shadows". Right now, half of this forum is doing exactly that!

Eddie's intimated that some of his exclusions are intended to be a kick up the ar$e for some players and I very much doubt he will actually leave JJ out of the actual EPS given that it lasts the full season.

To Banquo's earlier point, people have VERY short memories. JJ must be one of our highest scoring players under Eddie (if not the highest). Leaving him out would make 0 sense.

[Mikey Brown]

you may. It's the same as your judgement on when to pass though.

(though Mikey has been passing a lot more recently)

Slades a good player, just not my idea of a 13 at intl level.

Not mine either to be honest. Obviously I'm a bit mad for his ball skills but I dread the idea he'll only get a chance outside a poorly balanced Ford/Faz combo, fail to shine, and become another Matthew Tait.

Simpler to trade up on faz at 12 imo, if eddie is set on having ersatz 10's at 12.

I don't know what this phrase means.

[Oakboy]

Banquo, just read your comments on the GvW thread. I only saw the first 30 minutes so missed Teo's performance. Based on Eddie's squad, with no JJ, we can probably expect Farrell/T'eo at 12/13 with an outside chance of T'eo/Slade at some point. Whilst I would prefer the 2nd pairing, I'd fear that it would be outside Farrell. T'eo at 12 demands Ford's speed and accuracy of pass, IMO.

This is pure speculation. This is a training squad. We're not actually playing a game, so trying to second-guess a side is pointless.

The main quote of Eddie's I'd take away from the Times article is: "I wouldn't jump at shadows". Right now, half of this forum is doing exactly that!

Eddie's intimated that some of his exclusions are intended to be a kick up the ar$e for some players and I very much doubt he will actually leave JJ out of the actual EPS given that it lasts the full season.

To Banquo's earlier point, people have VERY short memories. JJ must be one of our highest scoring players under Eddie (if not the highest). Leaving him out would make 0 sense.

I can see no harm in speculating - or debating to use another word.

Why leave JJ out if he's flavour of the month? He certainly has to do something different/better to get back in, I'd suggest. Most (if not all) of us hope he does just that. Meanwhile, this squad is going to be training with a view to preparing for the first AI without him. Whether it is significant or not in the longer term, someone else will be in the OC slot for the training moves and practise games.

[Banquo]

Agree with this. I think that we need one centre who is a strike running threat, and if you have Farrell at 12 and Slade at 13 (for all the other qualities they bring), in terms of running our centre pairing is about as frightening as an enraged baby chicken.

Both centres imo have to offer a running threat; to me, the as yet untried combo of Teo and JJ is worth a look.

I'd prefer both, in the same way I'd prefer both to be able to pass and kick.

This seems unlikely though, so at the moment I'd settle for one and a playmaker.

My worry with Te'o and JJ is how much decent ball would get outside the 13 channel. Also, I think the two playmaker option has gone well. I think we could leverage Farrell's lack of run threat with more motion running off him.

agreed with the first statement; I'm not dogmatic over having a playmaker, unless they are also a running threat.

Ford and Faz have shown to good effect off first phase against weaker defences with that use of runners in motion as it were; but I can't get past Faz's lack of threat and iffy defence as a 12. I'd much prefer he and Ford (and whoever) to duke it out for 10.

I'm not worried over the Teo, JJ and width piece really; I think if JJ had the likes of Watson zooming up outside him, it'd all work; both Teo and JJ have decent handling ability, though I'd agree they are runners by instinct. The key is having the threat in midfield, with the ability to get over the gainline; with the back row/pack we may well be selecting, going wide willy nilly isn't likely a great idea.

[Banquo]

Not mine either to be honest. Obviously I'm a bit mad for his ball skills but I dread the idea he'll only get a chance outside a poorly balanced Ford/Faz combo, fail to shine, and become another Matthew Tait.

Simpler to trade up on faz at 12 imo, if eddie is set on having ersatz 10's at 12.

I don't know what this phrase means.

Not my issue

Faz is picked as a playmaker at 12; I think Slade would be a trade up at 12, certainly in attack.

[Banquo]

Banquo, just read your comments on the GvW thread. I only saw the first 30 minutes so missed Teo's performance. Based on Eddie's squad, with no JJ, we can probably expect Farrell/T'eo at 12/13 with an outside chance of T'eo/Slade at some point. Whilst I would prefer the 2nd pairing, I'd fear that it would be outside Farrell. T'eo at 12 demands Ford's speed and accuracy of pass, IMO.

before I answer, can you reply to my question over JJ's last but one game for England?

(Ford, Teo, and JJ would be my choice for england today)