2023 RWC Host Poll

[Beerlicious]

Okay, there is one single reason big enough alone.
Because their government is not reliable at all. Up to a case where they didn't allow the women's 7s team to take part in the Olympics and imposing laws on the Union how to handle certain thing. De facto the SA Union should be expelled for this and would be in every other sport. It is good for all the rugby players and fans that they aren't, but to award them a world cup in this situation is wrong.

This alone is the end of this story. When they sorted out their inner problems they should have their chance. As of now. No way.

[rowan]

So in your view the problems between the government and the rugby union are the former's fault, even though we can see with our own eyes that the game at the top level in South Africa remains overwhelmingly dominated by the 9% white minority? That would be consistent with your other views on the republic and the continent of Africa itself. Others might regard these problems as being the fault of the SARFU for failing to integrate sufficiently fully a generation after the end of Apartheid. But that is a matter for South Africa to resolve on its own. If World Rugby is going to take a stand and deprive the SARFU on this basis, it punishes the entire nation of South Africa - which is obviously not appropriate. So I disagree with you on two counts here: Firstly, it is the SARFU which is primarily at fault in its dispute with the government. Secondly, penalizing the entire nation for this would do more harm than good. In fact, it wouldnt do any good at all. Conversely, snubbing the republic's bid for a 4th time in succession would only serve to alienate the government and non-white majority further. On the other hand, we do know that the 1995 World Cup proved hugely successful in the republic and was a major unifying force. Regrettably successive administrations failed to build on it, however. So if World Rugby genuinely wants to help the situation in South Africa - its second biggest and most successful community - the best thing it could possibly do is send its showpiece event back there for the first time in the professional era and revive the euphoria and togetherness that were so clearly evident when Madiba handed over the trophy to Pienaar 22 years ago.

[Beerlicious]

In my view no government should ever question the independency of any union in any sport.
And stop playing this stupid race card. Gets boring. My south african friends of diverse backgrounds see it quite like me (apart from that you off course always wish to have a RWC in your country).

So you are saying that the Union is not capable of holding a RWC as they are not even capable of dealing with their own government.
That's even worse....

[rowan]

"no government should ever question the independency of any union in any sport."

Seems you imagine yourself on some kind of moral crusade with this. Well, sorry to inform you, that's a load of hogwash. Of course governments need to intervene where issues such as racism are concerned. In fact, they have an obligation to intervene. So don't act so surprised and indignant that you keep drawing the race card. It might actually have something to do with the nature of the comments you're making. & telling me about what your imaginary friends think is what's really boring here

So you are saying that the Union is not capable of holding a RWC as they are not even capable of dealing with their own government.

Strange, I'm sure I was saying exactly the opposite - that it's an internal issue, which needs to be resolved internally, and that punishing the entire nation for the union's failings would be counterproductive, whereas awarding them a long overdue second World Cup might go a long way toward rescuing them from this quagmire by reviving the euphoria and togetherness we witnessed in 1995.

So what's your view here? The government has no right to intervene in its own country's sports, but World Rugby does??

[Beerlicious]

Wait I am asking my imaginary South African friends about that first

Sorry to have waisted my time on you.
Both FIFA and IOC have suspended national unions for government interference. Have a great life.

[rowan]

Wait I am asking my imaginary South African friends about that first

Sorry to have waisted my time on you.
Both FIFA and IOC have suspended national unions for government interference. Have a great life.

Sure, the most obvious example being South Africa in the Apartheid era due to its racist policies - the very issue the current post-Apartheid government is still working to resolve. Logic therefore suggests it is the government which deserves the support of the international administrative body.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Well the French have surely now been eliminated after Ireland won the battle of the 2023 shirts.

[rowan]

Well the French have surely now been eliminated after Ireland won the battle of the 2023 shirts.

What's that about?

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Well the French have surely now been eliminated after Ireland won the battle of the 2023 shirts.

What's that about?

Both wore shirts promoting their bids in the latest 6N match.

[rowan]

Oh, do you have a link to news about that? Sounds interesting.

Meanwhile, Ireland's 19-9 win came almost a year to the day after the win over England by the same scoreline!

[Which Tyler]

Only just noticed this one; Durban have been stripped on the Commonwealth games for 2022 due to lack of government support - having been given the contract 2 years ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/commonwealth-games/39256432

[rowan]

Dumb asses! Well, if they're determined to shoot themselves in the foot (not much happening in the way of promoting their RWC bid at the moment), then perhaps Ireland should get it. It's really a shame it's come down to the 6 Nations YET AGAIN or SA, which isn't showing a lot of enthusiasm right now. & just several months ago it appeared rugby was spoilt for choice . . .

[rowan]

French update:

PARIS (AP) — France wants to stage the 2023 Rugby World Cup in 12 cities across the country if it is awarded the tournament.

The French rugby federation says matches would take place in the cities of Bordeaux, Lens, Lille, Lyon, Marseille, Montpellier, Nantes, Nice, Paris, Saint-Denis, Saint-Etienne and Toulouse.

France is up against Ireland and South Africa for the 2023 hosting rights. The host will be selected in November.

French rugby federation president Bernard Laporte says the "French bid is receiving a broad support from elected representatives in big French cities."

Ireland is looking to host the tournament for the first time, while South Africa hosted and won the 1995 edition. France reached the semifinals as host in 2007, when Laporte was coach.

http://www.sobserver.ws/en/18_03_2017/r ... cities.htm

[rowan]

Mark Keohane's latest column:

South African rugby - indeed the game in Africa - needs the lifeblood of hosting the 2023 Rugby World Cup.

Forget the Durban 2022 Commonwealth Games fiasco that paraded as a disaster on every front and get behind a Rugby World Cup that simply must be in South Africa - and by extension Africa.

The game’s future in South Africa will positively be influenced if this country plays host to rugby’s greatest show for a second time.

To those who were around in 1995, it’s the easiest sell.

For those who weren’t or whose memories have been dulled because of indifferent Springbok and Super Rugby results, don’t confuse being momentarily disillusioned with the Springboks as a reason to shun the chance to host the World Cup or to appreciate the enormous gains for South African Rugby and South Africa (as a country) if the eyes of the world are on yet another South African hosting sporting success story.

This country’s sporting stadiums are magnificent. The people, when it comes to sport in this country, are magnificent. The manner in which 2010’s Soccer World Cup played out was magnificent.

South African rugby, back in 1995, benefitted because of Nelson Mandela’s incredible gesture in embracing the Springboks, the jersey as being representative of a unified South Africa and because of the Springboks winning the title.

Continues here: http://www.sport24.co.za/Columnists/Mar ... 3-20170329

[rowan]

Then pull finger and start promoting the bid, like the Irish & French have been . . .

Cape Town - SA Rugby president Mark Alexander says it is "imperative" that South Africa hosts the 2023 Rugby World Cup.

The country is hoping to host its first World Cup since 1995 and delegates from World Rugby were in South Africa last month to help ensure that SA Rugby's bidding documents were in order.

The final date for submissions to World Rugby from potential host nations is June 1, with South Africa up against France and Ireland for the rights to host the global showpiece in 2023.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springbo ... e-20170406

[rowan]

My gut feeling is still with another double appointment - Ireland in 2023, SA in 2027; that way appeasing both, bringing the tournament back to the 6 Nations (as World Rugby obviously likes to do every eight years), & giving the troubled SARFU more time to prepare before its long overdue second helping. But that's only my hunch, not my preference. Given World Rugby's track record, that would be in line with their thinking. Of course, there is little doubt SA could stage the tournament tomorrow, and a highly successful tournament at that, provided the government fully backed it. So if the government continues to use the tournament as a political football, they'll only have themselves to blame if they don't get it in 2023.

[rowan]

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I'm surprised that I wasn't aware that they'd had such frequent problems. I guess it's because it's football. This stuff is not rocket science.

Johannesburg football stadium crush kills two - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-40765349

[rowan]

Wow, talk about seizing upon a tragedy to support ones own prejudices, but that unfortunate incident has nothing to do with this thread. Very sad news nonetheless and let us hope the death toll doesn't rise.

[rowan]

So the Super Rugby final is a sell-out at the 62K capacity Ellis Park Stadium, and the Cape Town 7s are a sell-out. But some people around here are questioning whether South Africa would be able to fill the stadiums for a World Cup tournament in this rugby-mad nation...

[Eugene Wrayburn]

So the Super Rugby final is a sell-out at the 62K capacity Ellis Park Stadium, and the Cape Town 7s are a sell-out. But some people around here are questioning whether South Africa would be able to fill the stadiums for a World Cup tournament in this rugby-mad nation...

Beating in mind the stadium was barely half full for the semi, are you surprised? Selling out games with the chance of making history is not really the issue. It's selling out Georgia v USA that's looking like it's entirely beyond them.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Wow, talk about seizing upon a tragedy to support ones own prejudices, but that unfortunate incident has nothing to do with this thread. Very sad news nonetheless and let us hope the death toll doesn't rise.

So this isn't a stadium that will be used in the RWC? So safety and the supervision thereof should be no concern?

[rowan]

Attendance for the Canes semi-final was just under 40k. Not full stadium but a good-sized crowd for a non-international, non-final by any standards. Again the main issue with Super Rugby, is that it follows provincial and club rugby and there is the international program as well. So that's just too much rugby for the fans to keep showing up at, week in, week out.

South Africans - as we can see - obviously turn out when there's something really big on offer, however; which isn't surprising given they have the second largest rugby-playing community in the world behind England, and the second most successful national team historically behind the All Blacks.

Of course, Georgia v USA would struggle to fill a stadium anywhere, including in France and Ireland as well, so you're just
nitpicking here because you have an obvious bias against the African country and would like to imagine this as an example of disinterest and ineptitude on their part.

Safety issues are of concern everywhere. A quick google will show you there have been incidents all around the world in recent years, not just Africa. Obviously World Rugby will be doing some kind of an inspection on safety standards, if they haven't already, which will be the time to address those issues.

Meanwhile, I see that one of the reasons France have won the 2024 Olympics is that they have failed with several strong bids in the past. It's simply not going to look good for rugbydom if they reject the African bid yet again - without a really good reason. Ireland is a first-time bidder and has zero advantages over SA - quite the opposite, in fact.

[rowan]

Speaking of France they have a very strong bid on the table, with the only real factor counting against them being they hosted just a decade ago. Also, they've just secured the 2024 Olympic, so wouldn't it make more sense to hold a RWC after that event, when all of the stadia and infrstrature is in place, rather than before - when it may not be. That has been one of the issues with Japan 2019, of course. The main stadium will not be ready. So 2027 seems far more appropriate to me for France. 20 years should be the minimum period between tournaments in the same country.

PARIS (AP) — The French rugby federation says it has secured a commitment from the French state to pay the tournament fee to organizers in its bid to host the 2023 Rugby World Cup.

The French federation said on Monday it gave two separate financial guarantees to World Rugby, amounting to just under $480 million (407 million euros).

The first guarantee, underwritten by the French state, is for around $200 million and surpasses the $158 million fee requested by World Rugby. The rest of the money, which has been set aside for organizational costs, will be provided by a French private bank.

French federation president Bernard Laporte said "this commitment reflects the support of French president (Emmanuel Macron) to the organization of the 2023 World Cup."

The French federation declined to reveal the bank's identity.

France is up against Ireland and South Africa for the 2023 hosting rights. The host will be selected in November.

http://sobserver.ws/en/01_08_2017/rugby ... up-bid.htm

[Eugene Wrayburn]

SA franchises have a lot fewer home games (roughly half) of their Irish or French counterparts. The idea that they struggle to get crowds because of sheer numbers of games is ludicrous. That they can only half full a stadium for a very rare home semifinal in a metropolitan area with a population greatly in excess of that of Ireland shows roughly where they are.