More on Syria

[rowan]

So what were you playing at when you tried to link the actions of the Syrian military in Aleppo and US-led airstrikes and started flailing when the source of said images turned out to be rather inconvenient for the agenda you're trying to push?

So you're still blaming the victim, in spite of the accompanying reports by the mainstream media you spend much of your time referencing yourself. Again, that's because you have an imperialist mentality - which is to say, might makes right; the viewpoint that it is permissable for America to be bombing countries all over the world without any kind of authority, while the nations they destroy have no right to defend themselves and will be blamed for the entire affair should they resist. America has no authority to be bombing Syria, and the reports show they have killed countless civilians, including children. This is mass murder on an horrific scale.

[cashead]

If mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport, you'd get a bronze medal, at least.

[WaspInWales]

& from the Guardian in relation to those photos:

A leading human rights group alleges US airstrikes in northern Syria have killed 56 civilians, among them 11 children. The aerial bombing, termed a “massacre” by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR), occurred near Manbij.

(August 3, 2015) -- The air campaign against Islamic State in Iraq and Syria has killed more than 450 civilians, according to a new report, even though the US-led coalition has so far acknowledged just two non-combatant deaths.

More than 5,700 air strikes have been launched in the campaign, which nears its first anniversary this Saturday, with its impact on civilians largely unknown.

Now Airwars, a project by a team of independent journalists, is publishing details of 52 strikes with what it believes are credible reports of at least 459 non-combatant deaths, including those of more than 100 children.

It says there is a "worrying gulf between public and coalition positions" on the campaign's toll on civilians.


But you're still fixated on apportioning blame to the victims, which is missing the point of the photos entirely.

The photos which you used to try and apport blame on the US.

Then you followed that up by using the Guardian and Washington Post to support your claims, even though these are MSM which is wrong is your eyes.

[rowan]

& from the Guardian in relation to those photos:

A leading human rights group alleges US airstrikes in northern Syria have killed 56 civilians, among them 11 children. The aerial bombing, termed a “massacre” by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR), occurred near Manbij.

(August 3, 2015) -- The air campaign against Islamic State in Iraq and Syria has killed more than 450 civilians, according to a new report, even though the US-led coalition has so far acknowledged just two non-combatant deaths.

More than 5,700 air strikes have been launched in the campaign, which nears its first anniversary this Saturday, with its impact on civilians largely unknown.

Now Airwars, a project by a team of independent journalists, is publishing details of 52 strikes with what it believes are credible reports of at least 459 non-combatant deaths, including those of more than 100 children.

It says there is a "worrying gulf between public and coalition positions" on the campaign's toll on civilians.


But you're still fixated on apportioning blame to the victims, which is missing the point of the photos entirely.

The photos which you used to try and apport blame on the US.

Then you followed that up by using the Guardian and Washington Post to support your claims, even though these are MSM which is wrong is your eyes.

Only if you are assuming I wrote the headlines and articles accompanying the photos personally.

[cashead]

No, all you did was regurgitate them, and then argue against the word of the very people who took those photos in the first place in pursuit of an obvious agenda.

[rowan]

No, all you did was regurgitate them, and then argue against the word of the very people who took those photos in the first place in pursuit of an obvious agenda.

Which again misses the point and demonstrates your fixation with apportioning the blame to the victim. The truth is, you know very little about what is going on in Syria. You don't live in this region, you're not speaking with the locals nor reading their media in the local language on a day-to-date basis either. All you have is your mainstream media, a vital tool of the imperial aggressor as it continues to invade and subjugate, leading to millions of deaths, the entire destruction of nations and a refugee tidal wave mostly into Europe. All you have is your imperialist viewpoint, might makes right and the empire's victims are to blame.

[canta_brian]

No, all you did was regurgitate them, and then argue against the word of the very people who took those photos in the first place in pursuit of an obvious agenda.

Which again misses the point and demonstrates your fixation with apportioning the blame to the victim. The truth is, you know very little about what is going on in Syria. You don't live in this region, you're not speaking with the locals nor reading their media in the local language on a day-to-date basis either. All you have is your mainstream media, a vital tool of the imperial aggressor as it continues to invade and subjugate, leading to millions of deaths, the entire destruction of nations and a refugee tidal wave mostly into Europe. All you have is your imperialist viewpoint, might makes right and the empire's victims are to blame.

Have you received a diagnosis for whatever is causing your brain to misfire this badly?

Scroll back and take a look at who has been quoting mainstream media to promote their argument.

Just to help, when it says Rowan at the top of the post, that means it was you.

[cashead]

No, all you did was regurgitate them, and then argue against the word of the very people who took those photos in the first place in pursuit of an obvious agenda.

Which again misses the point and demonstrates your fixation with apportioning the blame to the victim. The truth is, you know very little about what is going on in Syria. You don't live in this region, you're not speaking with the locals nor reading their media in the local language on a day-to-date basis either. All you have is your mainstream media, a vital tool of the imperial aggressor as it continues to invade and subjugate, leading to millions of deaths, the entire destruction of nations and a refugee tidal wave mostly into Europe. All you have is your imperialist viewpoint, might makes right and the empire's victims are to blame.

Hahahahaha, holy shit. Are you actually trying to suggest that anyone calling into question anything you state is some evil genocidal imperialist? And while we're on it, "imperialist!" cries the one who writes apologia for the imperialism of the states that sit outside of the "west."

[Donny osmond]

No, all you did was regurgitate them, and then argue against the word of the very people who took those photos in the first place in pursuit of an obvious agenda.

Which again misses the point and demonstrates your fixation with apportioning the blame to the victim. The truth is, you know very little about what is going on in Syria. You don't live in this region, you're not speaking with the locals nor reading their media in the local language on a day-to-date basis either. All you have is your mainstream media, a vital tool of the imperial aggressor as it continues to invade and subjugate, leading to millions of deaths, the entire destruction of nations and a refugee tidal wave mostly into Europe. All you have is your imperialist viewpoint, might makes right and the empire's victims are to blame.

Well, we have amnesty international as well to be fair.

[rowan]

No, all you did was regurgitate them, and then argue against the word of the very people who took those photos in the first place in pursuit of an obvious agenda.

Which again misses the point and demonstrates your fixation with apportioning the blame to the victim. The truth is, you know very little about what is going on in Syria. You don't live in this region, you're not speaking with the locals nor reading their media in the local language on a day-to-date basis either. All you have is your mainstream media, a vital tool of the imperial aggressor as it continues to invade and subjugate, leading to millions of deaths, the entire destruction of nations and a refugee tidal wave mostly into Europe. All you have is your imperialist viewpoint, might makes right and the empire's victims are to blame.

Have you received a diagnosis for whatever is causing your brain to misfire this badly?

Scroll back and take a look at who has been quoting mainstream media to promote their argument.

Just to help, when it says Rowan at the top of the post, that means it was you.

Scroll back and you will see that I was merely responding to comments attempting to apportion blame to the victim rather than the aggressor, and that the MSM articles you refer to were on the web-page accompanying the photos. So when even the MSM is blaming those it normally serves, that should tell you something. But, once again, that wasn't the point of the photos. Cashead's manic laughter upon the thread should give you an idea of why I thought it necessary to remind people of the human tragedy involved.

[cashead]

Which again misses the point and demonstrates your fixation with apportioning the blame to the victim. The truth is, you know very little about what is going on in Syria. You don't live in this region, you're not speaking with the locals nor reading their media in the local language on a day-to-date basis either. All you have is your mainstream media, a vital tool of the imperial aggressor as it continues to invade and subjugate, leading to millions of deaths, the entire destruction of nations and a refugee tidal wave mostly into Europe. All you have is your imperialist viewpoint, might makes right and the empire's victims are to blame.

Have you received a diagnosis for whatever is causing your brain to misfire this badly?

Scroll back and take a look at who has been quoting mainstream media to promote their argument.

Just to help, when it says Rowan at the top of the post, that means it was you.

Scroll back and you will see that I was merely responding to comments attempting to apportion blame to the victim rather than the aggressor, and that the MSM articles you refer to were on the web-page accompanying the photos. So when even the MSM is blaming those it normally serves, that should tell you something. But, once again, that wasn't the point of the photos. Cashead's manic laughter upon the thread should give you an idea of why I thought it necessary to remind people of the human tragedy involved.

Tell me who posted this to begin with?

There is a distinct lack of appropriate gravitas in some of the above comments. Let's remember what we're discussing here:

Hundreds of Civilians Killed in US-led Air Strikes http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/know/r ... emid=18553

Let's not forget that when called out on your choice of images and the circumstances in which they were taken (one from a blogspot blog and another from the Daily Mail, looking at the image URLs), you tried to dismiss that as propaganda.

[Donny osmond]

This is actually becoming an interesting study on how often one person can be publicly humiliated and still keep proclaiming their own veracity

[rowan]

This is actually becoming an interesting study on how often one person can be publicly humiliated and still keep proclaiming their own veracity

Then stop posting, Donny

http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-has-kil ... ii/5492051

[Donny osmond]

There may be many reasons for me to stop posting, but that sure as shit ain't one of them. [emoji6]

[canta_brian]

I believe that what Rowan is saying si that because amnesty weren't invited to film inside the prison by Assad the testimony of all the people they have spoken to must be false.

The testimony of the people who are evidently alive and well and telling us all about it was not the basis of the articles which grabbed the mainstream American and British media's headlines the other day. Those reports clearly implied torture chambers have been uncovered. That was a deception - blatant propaganda, as I told you.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky

Common conspiracy theories are frequently advanced, and stated as facts by authors including Chossudovsky himself on his website Global Research. A few examples are: The New World Order (conspiracy theory),[18][19] 9/11 conspiracy theories, such as the assertion that the attack on the Twin Towers was a False flag operation,[20][21] The HAARP conspiracy theory, that the installation is a "secret weapon used for weather modification, electromagnetic warfare",[22][23](Also included by Chossudovsky in one of his books.), Global warming conspiracy theory,[24][25] Charlie Hebdo shooting conspiracy theories,[26][27] and the FEMA camps conspiracy theory.[28][29]

I think I will stick with believing amnesty international over a bunch of Internet crackpots thanks.

Sorry to re-post my own....

Globalresearch again Rowan? Not the authoritative source I would have thought someone who claims to be a published journalist would keep quoting.

[rowan]

Surprise, surprise . . .

Amnesty International itself has openly admitted that the summation of the report was fabricated in the United Kingdom at Amnesty International’s office, using a process they call “forensic architecture,” in which the lack of actual, physical, photographic, and video evidence, is replaced by 3D animations and sound effects created by designers hired by Amnesty International.

Amnesty Hired Special Effects Experts to Fabricate “Evidence”

In a video produced by Amnesty International accompanying their report, titled, “Inside Saydnaya: Syria’s Torture Prison,” the narrator admits in its opening seconds that Amnesty International possesses no actual evidence regarding the prison.

There are almost no pictures of its exterior [except satellite images] and none from inside. And what happens within its walls is cloaked in secrecy, until now.

Viewers are initially led to believe evidence has emerged, exposing what took place within the prison’s walls, but the narrator continues by explaining:

We’ve devised a unique way of revealing what life is like inside a torture prison. And we’ve done it by talking to people who were there and have survived its horrors…

…and using their recollections and the testimony of others, we’ve build an interactive 3D model which can take you for the first time inside Saydnaya.

The narrator then explains:

In a unique collaboration, Amnesty International has teamed up with “Forensic Architecture” of Goldsmiths, University of London, to reconstruct both the sound and architecture of Saydnaya prison, and to do it using cutting-edge digital technology to create a model.

In other words, the summation of Amnesty International’s presentation was not accumulated from facts and evidence collected in Syria, but instead fabricated entirely in London using 3D models, animations, and audio software, based on the admittedly baseless accounts of alleged witnesses who claim to have been in or otherwise associated with the prison.


Eyal Weizman, director of “Forensic Architecture,” would admit that “memory” alone was the basis of both his collaboration with Amnesty International, and thus, the basis for Amnesty’s 48 page report:



http://www.globalresearch.ca/fake-news- ... uk/5573847

The accusations are not new, they were being reported last year, the year before that, and the year before that. Basically, since America and its cronies decided to wreck the country like they did Iraq and Libya. So it wasn't news at all, let alone headline news.

So I think we can all agree that:

- there is no actual evidence of torture chambers

- the accusations are based on the testimonies of Assad's enemies

- similar accusations were made again Saddam and Gaddafi

- similar accusations have been made against American allies Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey and Egypt, among others

- such accusations are neither reason nor justification for military intervention in another country

So which part do you disagree with?

Still waiting for that to be answered...

[canta_brian]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterograde_amnesia

[Mellsblue]

First one:

http://www.manu-brabo.com/wire-tales-of-aleppo

Scroll all the way to the right.


Second one:

http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/new ... d612431240


Oh, and here's the first photo used by the Washington Post, crediting it to Brabo.

Good work.

See what you can achieve when you're not throwing around the c word.

[rowan]

Surprise, surprise . . .

Amnesty International itself has openly admitted that the summation of the report was fabricated in the United Kingdom at Amnesty International’s office, using a process they call “forensic architecture,” in which the lack of actual, physical, photographic, and video evidence, is replaced by 3D animations and sound effects created by designers hired by Amnesty International.

Amnesty Hired Special Effects Experts to Fabricate “Evidence”

In a video produced by Amnesty International accompanying their report, titled, “Inside Saydnaya: Syria’s Torture Prison,” the narrator admits in its opening seconds that Amnesty International possesses no actual evidence regarding the prison.

There are almost no pictures of its exterior [except satellite images] and none from inside. And what happens within its walls is cloaked in secrecy, until now.

Viewers are initially led to believe evidence has emerged, exposing what took place within the prison’s walls, but the narrator continues by explaining:

We’ve devised a unique way of revealing what life is like inside a torture prison. And we’ve done it by talking to people who were there and have survived its horrors…

…and using their recollections and the testimony of others, we’ve build an interactive 3D model which can take you for the first time inside Saydnaya.

The narrator then explains:

In a unique collaboration, Amnesty International has teamed up with “Forensic Architecture” of Goldsmiths, University of London, to reconstruct both the sound and architecture of Saydnaya prison, and to do it using cutting-edge digital technology to create a model.

In other words, the summation of Amnesty International’s presentation was not accumulated from facts and evidence collected in Syria, but instead fabricated entirely in London using 3D models, animations, and audio software, based on the admittedly baseless accounts of alleged witnesses who claim to have been in or otherwise associated with the prison.


Eyal Weizman, director of “Forensic Architecture,” would admit that “memory” alone was the basis of both his collaboration with Amnesty International, and thus, the basis for Amnesty’s 48 page report:



http://www.globalresearch.ca/fake-news- ... uk/5573847

The accusations are not new, they were being reported last year, the year before that, and the year before that. Basically, since America and its cronies decided to wreck the country like they did Iraq and Libya. So it wasn't news at all, let alone headline news.

So I think we can all agree that:

- there is no actual evidence of torture chambers

- the accusations are based on the testimonies of Assad's enemies

- similar accusations were made against Saddam and Gaddafi

- similar accusations have been made against American allies Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey and Egypt, among others

- such accusations are neither reason nor justification for military intervention in another country

So which part do you disagree with?

Still waiting for that to be answered...[/quote]

No answer, because you hold the imperialist view and are fixated on trying to win an argument to appease your delusions. For you the fact the world's major superpower is dropping bombs on the other side of the world - yet again - is merely the natural order of things, might makes right, & It's the non-white, non-Christian victims of the super power's bombing who are the villains in the piece, because your mainstream media propaganda tells you so. Your ignorance becomes arrogance, and you claim expertise on an issue you really know nothing about and close your ears to anything which conflicts with your fantasies. Imperialist rampages require brainwashed apologists like you. But you are very much in the minority.

[Donny osmond]

Is it just me...?

[loudnconfident]

No answer, because you hold the imperialist view and are fixated on trying to win an argument to appease your delusions. For you the fact the world's major superpower is dropping bombs on the other side of the world - yet again - is merely the natural order of things, might makes right, & It's the non-white, non-Christian victims of the super power's bombing who are the villains in the piece, because your mainstream media propaganda tells you so. Your ignorance becomes arrogance, and you claim expertise on an issue you really know nothing about and close your ears to anything which conflicts with your fantasies. Imperialist rampages require brainwashed apologists like you. But you are very much in the minority.

Joining this late - may have missed a lot - Rowan you seem to be oblivious to the underlying issue - the 1300+ year old war between Sunni and Shia Islam (and the many problems with Islam as a a belief system). Wrt Aleppo, the MSM missed this one...

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/featur ... Yemen.html

The deputy commander of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Gen. Hossein Salami told the official Iranian news agency (Islamic Republic News Agency) that “The victory in Aleppo will pave the way for liberating Bahrain,” pointing out that Iran has an expansion project that will extend to Bahrain, Yemen and Mosul after the fall of the Syrian city of Aleppo.
Salami said that “the people of Bahrain will achieve their wishes, the Yemeni people will be delighted, and the residents of Mosul will taste victory, these are all divine promises,” as he put it."

For what the Sunnis do to Shias in Yemen, this clip is from a Mosque bombing (The BBC said they were "praying" ) "

https://www.memri.org/tv/worshippers-cu ... bing-yemen

(and we in the West should stay the $%^ out!)

[WaspInWales]

Is it just me...?

Are you asking if you're the only imperialist pig/swine?

I think I can safely say no to that.

[Mellsblue]

Is it just me...?

Are you asking if you're the only imperialist pig/swine?

I think I can safely say no to that.

Yet more answers to questions. This politics board is really starting to go somewhere.

[Donny osmond]

Is it just me...?

Are you asking if you're the only imperialist pig/swine?

I think I can safely say no to that.

No, that answer has been obvious for a while.

No I was asking, albeit obliquely, if anyone else was perplexed by Rowan having an argument with himself.

[rowan]

No answer, because you hold the imperialist view and are fixated on trying to win an argument to appease your delusions. For you the fact the world's major superpower is dropping bombs on the other side of the world - yet again - is merely the natural order of things, might makes right, & It's the non-white, non-Christian victims of the super power's bombing who are the villains in the piece, because your mainstream media propaganda tells you so. Your ignorance becomes arrogance, and you claim expertise on an issue you really know nothing about and close your ears to anything which conflicts with your fantasies. Imperialist rampages require brainwashed apologists like you. But you are very much in the minority.

Joining this late - may have missed a lot - Rowan you seem to be oblivious to the underlying issue - the 1300+ year old war between Sunni and Shia Islam (and the many problems with Islam as a a belief system). Wrt Aleppo, the MSM missed this one...

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/featur ... Yemen.html

The deputy commander of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Gen. Hossein Salami told the official Iranian news agency (Islamic Republic News Agency) that “The victory in Aleppo will pave the way for liberating Bahrain,” pointing out that Iran has an expansion project that will extend to Bahrain, Yemen and Mosul after the fall of the Syrian city of Aleppo.
Salami said that “the people of Bahrain will achieve their wishes, the Yemeni people will be delighted, and the residents of Mosul will taste victory, these are all divine promises,” as he put it."

For what the Sunnis do to Shias in Yemen, this clip is from a Mosque bombing (The BBC said they were "praying" ) "

https://www.memri.org/tv/worshippers-cu ... bing-yemen

(and we in the West should stay the $%^ out!)

Yes, you joined the discussion late and missed a lot. No argument there.

No, I am not oblivious to the Sunni -Shi'ite divide which you incorrectly describe as a 1300 year old war. This is an arrogant presumption, indicative of an imperialist mindset. I happen to live in a Sunni majority nation with a Shi'ite minority, and have done so for 12 years. Guess what, of the many conflicts were have here, that ain't one of them.

For centuries Sunnis, Shi'ites, Christians, Jews and others lived side by side in the Middle East. The Pax Ottomanica was in stark contrast to Europe at the time, which was rife with holy wars. The greater part of the historical conflicts betwen Sunnis and Shi'ites were in reality border wars between the Ottomans and the Safavid Empire of Iran - who actually co-existed peaceful for most of the time, and were not at war at all during the final century of Ottoman history.

It may also interest you to learn that Sunnis and Shi'ites frequently discuss and exchange ideos on religion, and have done so for centuries. Sunnis are actually taught Shi'ite theology as part of their leaning.

With regards to Iran, whilst mainstream media likes to inform us again and again how it is bent on destroying the civilized world, it hasn't actually attacked another country for 300 years (though it has been forced to defend itself on various occasions, mostly from the West or Western-backed regimes such as Saddam's Iraq). Research had shown overwhelmingly that Middle Easterners regard Israel as the greatest threat to regional security, followed by the US and Saudi Arabia. Iran is well down the list.

& as for Yemen, you might be interested to know I have an entire thread running on the topic. Yes, most of the civilian carnage has been created by the Saudi-US coalition, by targetting schools, hospitals, weddings, funerals and just about anywhere else civilians are inclined to amass, while and Britain has contributed substantially through the sale of weaponry used.