RugbyRebels

Which Tyler wrote:

Stom wrote:

morepork wrote:

What, so you are a fan of wooden running, inability to recognise supporting runners, and a pass like a Parkinsonian lemur on methamphetamine?

When the choice is between Brown and Drunken Dennie, then I think you know why he's still in there...

Plus he has dog, and we know how much Eddie loves dogging.

FTFY

Stan Collymore likes this post.

Digby wrote:

kk67 wrote:

Digby wrote:What we don't know about Simmonds and playing 7 is how good he is over the ball.

He's like 'Nipper' from every comic I read when I was young.
He even looks like adult Tin-tin. So does Underhill.

Useful info there, other than I've no idea who Nipper is

Nipper was a young aspiring footballer with a crab claw for a hand. His ambitions to turn pro were hampered due to his penchant for terrorising the derrières of young maidens. Alas the happy go lucky lad 'nipped' one time too many resulting in a disgruntled boyfriend lighting a BBQ and rustling up a light dressing of garlic, ginger and a squeeze of fresh lime

Team’s up.

Care starting and JJ in for Te’o who drops to the bench.

So Lawes and Robshaw then?

England team to face Wales: Brown; Watson, Joseph, Farrell, May; Ford, Care; M Vunipola, Hartley, Cole, Launchbury, Itoje, Lawes, Robshaw, Simmonds.

Replacements: George, Hepburn, Williams, Kruis, Underhill, Wigglesworth, Te'o, Nowell

Thought Te'o would keep his place but JJ hardly weakens the side.

Always expected minimal changes for this game.

Mikey Brown wrote:So Lawes and Robshaw then?

Yep. I’m worried about the breakdown, but I’m not surprised that’s what we’ve gone with.

I’m not too bothered about us stealing their ball - we just need to make sure we support our ball carriers a lot more effectively than we have done recently to retain our own possession.

If we’re careless in contact, Navidi and Moriarty will turn us over.

Joseph coming back in pleases me greatly, as does the fact that Wigglesworth isn't starting. I'm resigned to Robshaw and Lawes now, so overall I'm happy with the side.

Puja

Scrumhead wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:So Lawes and Robshaw then?

Yep. I’m worried about the breakdown, but I’m not surprised that’s what we’ve gone with.

I’m not too bothered about us stealing their ball - we just need to make sure we support our ball carriers a lot more effectively than we have done recently to retain our own possession.

If we’re careless in contact, Navidi and Moriarty will turn us over.

Indeed - it's clearly a tactic not to try to aggressively to steal their ball, but I wish I wasn't as worried about losing our own ball at every tackle. We seem to live very close to the edge and it could go wrong if we're not careful

TheNomad wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:So Lawes and Robshaw then?

Yep. I’m worried about the breakdown, but I’m not surprised that’s what we’ve gone with.

I’m not too bothered about us stealing their ball - we just need to make sure we support our ball carriers a lot more effectively than we have done recently to retain our own possession.

If we’re careless in contact, Navidi and Moriarty will turn us over.

Indeed - it's clearly a tactic not to try to aggressively to steal their ball, but I wish I wasn't as worried about losing our own ball at every tackle. We seem to live very close to the edge and it could go wrong if we're not careful

Does anyone in particular bother you? Nobody strikes me as a problem because they regularly cough up ball. In fact, I can't think of anyone who does it any more often than Billy - arguably one of our best players. My constant gripe is that support players are slow in arriving and that we never have a SH with real physicality and an express pass. The longer the ball is on the ground not being moved the more vulnerable we are obviously. I'd have picked Spencer ahead of Wigglesworth.

I fear the consequences of kicking the ball away more than I fear losing it at the breakdown. Eddie appears to want a kicking SH. Ugh!

Kicking game is my biggest worry. Think this is an area that needs work on. That said the welsh Brad Pitt does play flat so the little dink over the top could be worth a go.

I just guess Jones ain’t worried about competing at the breakdown.

I am hoping that CGS has been set an early goal of smashing Patchell. He does strike me as the weak link in this Welsh attack and a big hit or two early could leave him with one eye out for Courtney for the rest of the game.

Puja

Oakboy wrote:

TheNomad wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:
Yep. I’m worried about the breakdown, but I’m not surprised that’s what we’ve gone with.

I’m not too bothered about us stealing their ball - we just need to make sure we support our ball carriers a lot more effectively than we have done recently to retain our own possession.

If we’re careless in contact, Navidi and Moriarty will turn us over.

Indeed - it's clearly a tactic not to try to aggressively to steal their ball, but I wish I wasn't as worried about losing our own ball at every tackle. We seem to live very close to the edge and it could go wrong if we're not careful

Does anyone in particular bother you? Nobody strikes me as a problem because they regularly cough up ball. In fact, I can't think of anyone who does it any more often than Billy - arguably one of our best players. My constant gripe is that support players are slow in arriving and that we never have a SH with real physicality and an express pass. The longer the ball is on the ground not being moved the more vulnerable we are obviously. I'd have picked Spencer ahead of Wigglesworth.

I fear the consequences of kicking the ball away more than I fear losing it at the breakdown. Eddie appears to want a kicking SH. Ugh!

I’m not thinking of a specific culprit. Occasionally it’s the carrier making a poor decision or getting themselves isolated, but more often than not, we get turned over because the speed/quality of the clear out isn’t good enough.

I’m also a bit worried about the kicking game, but let’s hope we have adapted our tactics a little given the better opposition.

Puja wrote:I am hoping that CGS has been set an early goal of smashing Patchell. He does strike me as the weak link in this Welsh attack and a big hit or two early could leave him with one eye out for Courtney for the rest of the game.

Puja

A Plisson replica would be great ...

Patchell played very well against Scotland but he, Evans and Adams are inexperienced at this level and I would be surprised if we don’t target them in some way.

I’m certainly expecting Ford to drop a few bombs on Evans considering Brown and Watson should have significant aerial superiority.

What aspect of the kicking game is it that you’re all finding so worrying?

Wales like to play with 14 in the line as much as possible and leave Halfpenny to cover the whole backfield, which is great against Scotland running it from everywhere and with few quality kicking options. But against England either Halfpenny will have to play immense on the day or they’ll have to adjust, as we do have a number of good tactical kickers.

Timbo wrote:What aspect of the kicking game is it that you’re all finding so worrying?

Wales like to play with 14 in the line as much as possible and leave Halfpenny to cover the whole backfield, which is great against Scotland running it from everywhere and with few quality kicking options. But against England either Halfpenny will have to play immense on the day or they’ll have to adjust, as we do have a number of good tactical kickers.

Tactical kicking that hits grass, I don't think anyone has a problem with. However too many of our kicks are just "to compete" (which usually means we lose the ball) or are just straight down a full-back's throat. It's a turnover by any other name.

Puja

Oakboy wrote:

TheNomad wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:
Yep. I’m worried about the breakdown, but I’m not surprised that’s what we’ve gone with.

I’m not too bothered about us stealing their ball - we just need to make sure we support our ball carriers a lot more effectively than we have done recently to retain our own possession.

If we’re careless in contact, Navidi and Moriarty will turn us over.

Indeed - it's clearly a tactic not to try to aggressively to steal their ball, but I wish I wasn't as worried about losing our own ball at every tackle. We seem to live very close to the edge and it could go wrong if we're not careful

Does anyone in particular bother you? Nobody strikes me as a problem because they regularly cough up ball. In fact, I can't think of anyone who does it any more often than Billy - arguably one of our best players. My constant gripe is that support players are slow in arriving and that we never have a SH with real physicality and an express pass. The longer the ball is on the ground not being moved the more vulnerable we are obviously. I'd have picked Spencer ahead of Wigglesworth.

I fear the consequences of kicking the ball away more than I fear losing it at the breakdown. Eddie appears to want a kicking SH. Ugh!

You've missed the point- he's not talking about coughing up the ball, but being turned over because we under-resource the breakdown/fail to support the carrier. That's what happens when you play a lock in the backrow, and a blindside at openside, and have system that deliberately puts minimal numbers into the breakdown- its the way we set up to play. It doesnt help that our carriers are that special, and go to deck a bit easily.

Puja wrote:I am hoping that CGS has been set an early goal of smashing Patchell. He does strike me as the weak link in this Welsh attack and a big hit or two early could leave him with one eye out for Courtney for the rest of the game.

Puja

I think Patchell is pretty talented, and plays a lot flatter than Biggar. His weakness is cramp!

Timbo wrote:What aspect of the kicking game is it that you’re all finding so worrying?

Wales like to play with 14 in the line as much as possible and leave Halfpenny to cover the whole backfield, which is great against Scotland running it from everywhere and with few quality kicking options. But against England either Halfpenny will have to play immense on the day or they’ll have to adjust, as we do have a number of good tactical kickers.

The aspect we showed last week of exiting using overlong kicks caught on the full by the Italian 15. Plus our not very good box kicking. Exit play then.

Puja wrote:I am hoping that CGS has been set an early goal of smashing Patchell. He does strike me as the weak link in this Welsh attack and a big hit or two early could leave him with one eye out for Courtney for the rest of the game.

Puja

There you go:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... ugby-union

Danno wrote:

Puja wrote:I am hoping that CGS has been set an early goal of smashing Patchell. He does strike me as the weak link in this Welsh attack and a big hit or two early could leave him with one eye out for Courtney for the rest of the game.

Puja

There you go:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... ugby-union

Well, not quite Courtney...............

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:I am hoping that CGS has been set an early goal of smashing Patchell. He does strike me as the weak link in this Welsh attack and a big hit or two early could leave him with one eye out for Courtney for the rest of the game.

Puja

I think Patchell is pretty talented, and plays a lot flatter than Biggar. His weakness is cramp!

I think any inexperienced fly-half has a weakness to an early crunch from a big nasty forward. He's a talented player, but lets see how his temperament is at the top level.

p/d wrote:

Danno wrote:There you go:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... ugby-union

Well, not quite Courtney...............

I suspect he's talking about JJ going for the intercept - not quite sure how our defence would line up to have Joseph marking Patchell?!

Good to see he's got an eye on it. Some more choice quotes in the bbc copy of the article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42989860

"The pressure on him is going be enormous. It's whether he has the bottle to handle it," Jones said.

"We'll find out on Saturday.

"He hasn't played much Test rugby at all. He is going to have [Chris] Robshaw at him, [Owen] Farrell at him, [Danny] Care at him - all guys that have played a lot of Test rugby.

"Wales see themselves on a self-proclaimed roll at the moment. So we will see how they deal with Twickenham, and deal with us.

"They have got a number of players that are going to struggle with the expectation."

I like the bolded bit - that's the kind of disdain that we need to treat Wales with!

Puja

Puja wrote:

Timbo wrote:What aspect of the kicking game is it that you’re all finding so worrying?

Wales like to play with 14 in the line as much as possible and leave Halfpenny to cover the whole backfield, which is great against Scotland running it from everywhere and with few quality kicking options. But against England either Halfpenny will have to play immense on the day or they’ll have to adjust, as we do have a number of good tactical kickers.

Tactical kicking that hits grass, I don't think anyone has a problem with. However too many of our kicks are just "to compete" (which usually means we lose the ball) or are just straight down a full-back's throat. It's a turnover by any other name.

Puja

Yep. Basically it's an unforced error.

There's nothing wrong with a tactical kicking game ... when the tactical kicks go where they're supposed to go: into empty space in the oppo 22, behind the back three (turning them around which puts them under pressure), into touch after a penalty, etc.

But if that doesn't happen then you've either got:

(A) an up and under in mid-field, which is basically a 50/50 proposition. There might be times when that's preferable, i.e. the lone fullback getting scragged by 4 incoming mongrels, but otherwise it's swapping possession for a 50/50 chance at possession a small way up-field. Not good percentage rugby imho. In other words, half the time it's a turnover.

or

(B) a turnover.

Nobody expects every kick to go where it should. But modern 1st fives (fly-halves I think you call them up there) and fullbacks are expected to be 80% plus accurate with their kicks, whether goal kicking or positional kicking. if you're not, then you only kick the ball in those rare (well, they should be rare, or you've got bigger problems) situations when not to do means you get stampeded and give away 7 points.

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:I am hoping that CGS has been set an early goal of smashing Patchell. He does strike me as the weak link in this Welsh attack and a big hit or two early could leave him with one eye out for Courtney for the rest of the game.

Puja

I think Patchell is pretty talented, and plays a lot flatter than Biggar. His weakness is cramp!

I think any inexperienced fly-half has a weakness to an early crunch from a big nasty forward. He's a talented player, but lets see how his temperament is at the top level.

p/d wrote:

Danno wrote:There you go:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... ugby-union

Well, not quite Courtney...............

I suspect he's talking about JJ going for the intercept - not quite sure how our defence would line up to have Joseph marking Patchell?!

Good to see he's got an eye on it. Some more choice quotes in the bbc copy of the article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42989860

"The pressure on him is going be enormous. It's whether he has the bottle to handle it," Jones said.

"We'll find out on Saturday.

"He hasn't played much Test rugby at all. He is going to have [Chris] Robshaw at him, [Owen] Farrell at him, [Danny] Care at him - all guys that have played a lot of Test rugby.

"Wales see themselves on a self-proclaimed roll at the moment. So we will see how they deal with Twickenham, and deal with us.

"They have got a number of players that are going to struggle with the expectation."

I like the bolded bit - that's the kind of disdain that we need to treat Wales with!

Puja

You said he was the weak link, I don't think he is. You could use your target the 10 piece against any side; Betsen did it to the highly experienced Wilko once, memorably. I prefer the JJ option of muddling his decision making, preferably both methods in any case, as go smash the 10 is de facto these days

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: I think Patchell is pretty talented, and plays a lot flatter than Biggar. His weakness is cramp!

I think any inexperienced fly-half has a weakness to an early crunch from a big nasty forward. He's a talented player, but lets see how his temperament is at the top level.

p/d wrote:
Well, not quite Courtney...............

I suspect he's talking about JJ going for the intercept - not quite sure how our defence would line up to have Joseph marking Patchell?!

Good to see he's got an eye on it. Some more choice quotes in the bbc copy of the article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42989860

"The pressure on him is going be enormous. It's whether he has the bottle to handle it," Jones said.

"We'll find out on Saturday.

"He hasn't played much Test rugby at all. He is going to have [Chris] Robshaw at him, [Owen] Farrell at him, [Danny] Care at him - all guys that have played a lot of Test rugby.

"Wales see themselves on a self-proclaimed roll at the moment. So we will see how they deal with Twickenham, and deal with us.

"They have got a number of players that are going to struggle with the expectation."

I like the bolded bit - that's the kind of disdain that we need to treat Wales with!

Puja

You said he was the weak link, I don't think he is. You could use your target the 10 piece against any side; Betsen did it to the highly experienced Wilko once, memorably. I prefer the JJ option of muddling his decision making, preferably both methods in any case, as go smash the 10 is de facto these days

Maybe I misspoke - I think he's the place to attack Wales's backline. He's good, but inexperienced and his 12 and 9 aren't exactly veterans. Plus so much of Wales's play goes through him that, if we can rattle him, we're a step closer to victory.

Puja