RugbyRebels

fivepointer wrote:Seems to me there is a lowering of expectations for this series of matches, which contrasts with Eddie's usually upbeat comments.
As ever, its results that matter. And they do matter this autumn.
He can point to a worryingly long injury list in mitigation, but he has still selected his squad - leaving out a number of form players - and he has to produce winning teams.
4 out of 4 might be a stretch but i dont think its unreasonable to expect at least 3 wins.

3/4, I agree with, 5P. The problem is the RFU. What is their benchmark?

Digby wrote:

Timbo wrote:Hmmm...the bashful, slightly embarrassed look on Farrell’s face being described as smug shows that he will never win over a niche section of England’s fan base.

If he plays well nobody will care about his face, nobody cared about Guscott when he played well and he has little of the modesty Farrell has. The issue is far more resulting from role, style and performance

Indeed. No doubt he has the game for the top table, and definitely has the heart and fire in him that we generally crave from our lead players. What grates most is commentators and pundits alike ignoring his failings when such failings are highlighted in those challenging for his berth.

Oakboy wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Seems to me there is a lowering of expectations for this series of matches, which contrasts with Eddie's usually upbeat comments.
As ever, its results that matter. And they do matter this autumn.
He can point to a worryingly long injury list in mitigation, but he has still selected his squad - leaving out a number of form players - and he has to produce winning teams.
4 out of 4 might be a stretch but i dont think its unreasonable to expect at least 3 wins.

3/4, I agree with, 5P. The problem is the RFU. What is their benchmark?

this close to the WC that should be their minimum. That said, after the last 12 months, a courageously hard fought draw v Japan might be deemed a step forward.........

Timbo wrote:Hmmm...the bashful, slightly embarrassed look on Farrell’s face being described as smug shows that he will never win over a niche section of England’s fan base.

Yeah I've slagged him off quite a lot but that wasn't what I was seeing either. My issue is that he knows he has built this reputation (aura if you will, lol) and now sees it as his duty to be as loud and obnoxious as possible at every opportunity.

As with most our problems it's more a matter of balance, roles and tactics than individuals.

p/d wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Jones is right to say that only the RWC matches matter in terms of results .

You really think he is right? To me that is just a throw away comment to justify a poor run of results and the debacle that awaits us this November.

Jones is Mourinho. Over rated and full of guff.

sack him and lets move on

Absolutely agree. I've seen enough.

The guy has lost the plot.

He came in and talked about how England should be the number 1 team in the world, we should and will be the best, now he doesn't care about the results in the AIs having lost a load of games already this year.

He talked about building a dominant pack, which he most certainly hasn't done. He talked about a load of things and hasn't done any of them. His player selection is shit too.

p/d wrote:

Digby wrote:

Timbo wrote:Hmmm...the bashful, slightly embarrassed look on Farrell’s face being described as smug shows that he will never win over a niche section of England’s fan base.

If he plays well nobody will care about his face, nobody cared about Guscott when he played well and he has little of the modesty Farrell has. The issue is far more resulting from role, style and performance

Indeed. No doubt he has the game for the top table, and definitely has the heart and fire in him that we generally crave from our lead players. What grates most is commentators and pundits alike ignoring his failings when such failings are highlighted in those challenging for his berth.

This.

p/d wrote:

Digby wrote:

Timbo wrote:Hmmm...the bashful, slightly embarrassed look on Farrell’s face being described as smug shows that he will never win over a niche section of England’s fan base.

If he plays well nobody will care about his face, nobody cared about Guscott when he played well and he has little of the modesty Farrell has. The issue is far more resulting from role, style and performance

Indeed. No doubt he has the game for the top table, and definitely has the heart and fire in him that we generally crave from our lead players. What grates most is commentators and pundits alike ignoring his failings when such failings are highlighted in those challenging for his berth.

Indeed. He is basically immune to criticism. When he has a poor game, it’s always glossed over.

Then again, it also irritates me that every armchair fan on social media wails over Cipriani being selected decrying Ford’s apparently ‘poor form’ without any real idea of who is in form and who isn’t. Honestly, I think most people’s opinions are based mainly on media hyperbole - certainly based on attendance and viewing figures anyway.

Scrumhead wrote: Then again, it also irritates me that every armchair fan on social media wails over Cipriani being selected decrying Ford’s apparently ‘poor form’ without any real idea of who is in form and who isn’t. Honestly, I think most people’s opinions are based mainly on media hyperbole - certainly based on attendance and viewing figures anyway.

We all talk about balance. It applies to arrogance too. Cipriani's arrogance is factually based on flair/skill and does not irritate.

Farrell's arrogance is an in-your-face provocative suggestion that aggravates like hell - his place-kick ritual is cringeworthy, for example.

Ford is simply not arrogant enough. Unobtrusive efficiency is great in a blindside but Joe Public wants his FH to rule the roost and run the game. I would still like to see Ford as captain (and Farrell out of the side) for a few games. I just do not want Ford in the XV if Farrell is at 12.

Oh, and I absolutely hate this co-captain bollocks. It smacks of ruling by committee.

Scrumhead wrote:

p/d wrote:

Digby wrote:
If he plays well nobody will care about his face, nobody cared about Guscott when he played well and he has little of the modesty Farrell has. The issue is far more resulting from role, style and performance

Indeed. No doubt he has the game for the top table, and definitely has the heart and fire in him that we generally crave from our lead players. What grates most is commentators and pundits alike ignoring his failings when such failings are highlighted in those challenging for his berth.

Indeed. He is basically immune to criticism. When he has a poor game, it’s always glossed over.

Then again, it also irritates me that every armchair fan on social media wails over Cipriani being selected decrying Ford’s apparently ‘poor form’ without any real idea of who is in form and who isn’t. Honestly, I think most people’s opinions are based mainly on media hyperbole - certainly based on attendance and viewing figures anyway.

The Cipriani position is purely a preference. I am nonplus whether it is Ford or Cips, on form both merit inclusion. What then becomes important is which is most suited to Jones' ambitions for England, and as we haven't got a bloody clue what they are we must assume that having left and right footed kickers at 10 and 12 is a luxury Farrell and Jones deem inferior to that of a 10 who will stick to the script.

That or they straight up just don't like him.

Oakboy wrote:
Oh, and I absolutely hate this co-captain bollocks. It smacks of ruling by committee.

Jones way to ensure: 'they will play irrespective of form etc.'..........that and fecking finishers. Half expect him to turn up in a shell suit and drive the final nail into the coffin.

Oakboy wrote:

Scrumhead wrote: Then again, it also irritates me that every armchair fan on social media wails over Cipriani being selected decrying Ford’s apparently ‘poor form’ without any real idea of who is in form and who isn’t. Honestly, I think most people’s opinions are based mainly on media hyperbole - certainly based on attendance and viewing figures anyway.

We all talk about balance. It applies to arrogance too. Cipriani's arrogance is factually based on flair/skill and does not irritate.

Farrell's arrogance is an in-your-face provocative suggestion that aggravates like hell - his place-kick ritual is cringeworthy, for example.

Ford is simply not arrogant enough. Unobtrusive efficiency is great in a blindside but Joe Public wants his FH to rule the roost and run the game. I would still like to see Ford as captain (and Farrell out of the side) for a few games. I just do not want Ford in the XV if Farrell is at 12.

Oh, and I absolutely hate this co-captain bollocks. It smacks of ruling by committee.

I am a big Cipriani fan, but let's be honest about it, he has some arrogance beyond just the flair/skill point you make. He also clearly felt for a long time that he was special enough to get away with stupid shit. Goes away on a pre-season tour with 40 other guys and again it's him that does something wrong etc... he's clearly been pretty arrogant in his career beyond his flair on the field and whilst you might not like Farrell, he's not guilty of the same and he's obviously super motivated and pulls with the team/mission. Same for Ford obviously.

This has got the point of people discussing big brother or love island personalities.

Lots of people that are good at sport are arrogant. It comes with the territory. I don't want to have them come home and have dinner with my family. I just want to watch them run around on a rugby pitch every now and then.

twitchy wrote:This has got the point of people discussing big brother or love island personalities.

Lots of people that are good at sport are arrogant. It comes with the territory. I don't want to have them come home and have dinner with my family. I just want to watch them run around on a rugby pitch every now and then.

I wouldn't want George Ford over for dinner. His borderline OCD would turn him into a quivering mess!!!

Stom wrote:

twitchy wrote:This has got the point of people discussing big brother or love island personalities.

Lots of people that are good at sport are arrogant. It comes with the territory. I don't want to have them come home and have dinner with my family. I just want to watch them run around on a rugby pitch every now and then.

I wouldn't want George Ford over for dinner. His borderline OCD would turn him into a quivering mess!!!

get him to sweep the drive.

twitchy wrote:This has got the point of people discussing big brother or love island personalities.

Lots of people that are good at sport are arrogant. It comes with the territory. I don't want to have them come home and have dinner with my family

What about someone like Ana Ivanovic? I wouldn't mind if she came over for dinner.

TheDasher wrote:

twitchy wrote:This has got the point of people discussing big brother or love island personalities.

Lots of people that are good at sport are arrogant. It comes with the territory. I don't want to have them come home and have dinner with my family

What about someone like Ana Ivanovic? I wouldn't mind if she came over for dinner

was the 'for dinner' necessary when 'me' would have done

TheDasher wrote:

twitchy wrote:This has got the point of people discussing big brother or love island personalities.

Lots of people that are good at sport are arrogant. It comes with the territory. I don't want to have them come home and have dinner with my family

What about someone like Ana Ivanovic? I wouldn't mind if she came over for dinner.

I concur, forgive me.

p/d wrote:

TheDasher wrote:

twitchy wrote:This has got the point of people discussing big brother or love island personalities.

Lots of people that are good at sport are arrogant. It comes with the territory. I don't want to have them come home and have dinner with my family

What about someone like Ana Ivanovic? I wouldn't mind if she came over for dinner

was the 'for dinner' necessary when 'me' would have done

P/D, good to have your humour back. Now, if you only had a decent avatar again . . .

TheDasher wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Scrumhead wrote: Then again, it also irritates me that every armchair fan on social media wails over Cipriani being selected decrying Ford’s apparently ‘poor form’ without any real idea of who is in form and who isn’t. Honestly, I think most people’s opinions are based mainly on media hyperbole - certainly based on attendance and viewing figures anyway.

We all talk about balance. It applies to arrogance too. Cipriani's arrogance is factually based on flair/skill and does not irritate.

Farrell's arrogance is an in-your-face provocative suggestion that aggravates like hell - his place-kick ritual is cringeworthy, for example.

Ford is simply not arrogant enough. Unobtrusive efficiency is great in a blindside but Joe Public wants his FH to rule the roost and run the game. I would still like to see Ford as captain (and Farrell out of the side) for a few games. I just do not want Ford in the XV if Farrell is at 12.

Oh, and I absolutely hate this co-captain bollocks. It smacks of ruling by committee.

I am a big Cipriani fan, but let's be honest about it, he has some arrogance beyond just the flair/skill point you make. He also clearly felt for a long time that he was special enough to get away with stupid shit. Goes away on a pre-season tour with 40 other guys and again it's him that does something wrong etc... he's clearly been pretty arrogant in his career beyond his flair on the field and whilst you might not like Farrell, he's not guilty of the same and he's obviously super motivated and pulls with the team/mission. Same for Ford obviously.

Agreed but I was responding to Scrumhead's point about what armchair fans see on the TV.

p/d wrote:

TheDasher wrote:

twitchy wrote:This has got the point of people discussing big brother or love island personalities.

Lots of people that are good at sport are arrogant. It comes with the territory. I don't want to have them come home and have dinner with my family

What about someone like Ana Ivanovic? I wouldn't mind if she came over for dinner

was the 'for dinner' necessary when 'me' would have done

Look, this is not the playground of the local sixth form let’s stick to rugby......I’d like Abbie Brown over for dinner.

So from the squad:

Hepburn, Moon
Hartley, George
Sinckler, Williams, Schonert
Kruis, Itoje, Lawes, Ewels, Stooke
Wilson, Rhodes, Hill, Shields
Curry, Underhill
Mercer, Morgan
Care, Youngs, Wigglesworth
Ford, Farrell
Slade, Lozowski, Tuilagi, Te'o
May, Nowell, Earle, Cokanasiga, Ashton
Brown, Daly


We assume that Lawes and Lozowski are unavailable. All the talk seems to be that Rhodes will start, presumably at 6. The gossip also suggests Farrell will be at 10. So will Jones pick:

1. Hepburn
2. Hartley
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Rhodes
7. Curry
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. May
12. Tuilagi
13. Slade
14. Nowell
15. Daly

16. George
17. Moon
18. Williams
19. Ewels
20. Robshaw
21. Care
22. Ford
23. Brown

I'm preparing for...

Moon
Hartley
Williams
Itoje
Kruis
Shiels
Rhodes
Morgan
Youngs
Farrell
May
Te'o
Tuilagi
Daly
Brown

Stom wrote:I'm preparing for...

Moon
Hartley
Williams
Itoje
Kruis
Shiels
Rhodes
Morgan
Youngs
Farrell
May
Te'o
Tuilagi
Daly
Brown

I thought I was the pessimist!! Having said that, your team would not surprise me - except that Jones might be stupid enough to start Brown on the wing again.

Who are the certs?
Hartley, Itoje, Youngs, Farrell, Daly.....and........
You could start either LH or TH in the front row. I think it will be Moon and Williams but wouldnt bet against Hepburn and Sinckler.
If Lawes is ruled out Kruis will surely come in to partner Itoje - or could Itoje play 6?
Nothing is fixed in the back row. I'd like to think Curry is a guaranteed starter but you just never know. 8 is between Morgan and Mercer, while 6 could go any one of 4 ways.
Youngs has always been Eddie's preferred 9 so I think he will start. Farrell will play, its just where that is to be determined.
If they are fit, I reckon Te'o and Manu will play centre, though having a secondary playmaker in Slade does have considerable attractions.
I'm sure Daly will play but FB or wing? If FB, then I fully expect to see Ashton restored.

Can anybody suggest anything much to be optimistic about? I'm struggling beyond Tuilagi blasting a hole or two and May/Daly getting the ball in space. In every other position I can see cause for concern.