How's the nerves?

[Billyfish]

Have to agree of course, England the better team, but that's not saying much. Wales didn't actually play. It was like the 90s.

[Hwyl dda]

When Wales wake up from the Gatball gameplan we seem to score tries and play rugby - SHOCK!!!!!

[normanski]

Was a close call for touch, But England by far the better side

That's the sadness. England far quicker at the breakdown and look certs for the slam. We did score three tries (one lucky) to one. A bottle of red wine is awaiting.

[Not me]

It has been emotional, Warren and many thanks for everything you have done. But please can you now bugger off.


Please don't forget Rob.

[WaspInWales]

Nerves = shot.

Right result though but fwcking hell.

[hawkaye]

Where was Warbs for most of the match?? Bigger is an unreliable defender - misses crucial tackles. AWJ off the pace. GD wants too much time getting the ball out. Forwards not clearing out - too slow to the breakdown
Webb much better - gave more time to the backs and took time away from defenders.
LW good game at full back.
Undone by poor 1st half line out, scrum penalties, breakdown penalties defence and missed tackles.
England far more solid and higher tempo rugby.

[Buggaluggs]

It has been emotional, Warren and many thanks for everything you have done. But please can you now bugger off.


Please don't forget Rob.

Don't forget we were losing to France & England by 30+ points before Warren came. Now a 4 point loss or a 9 point win is disappointing. Have to keep it in perspective.

[Not me]

It has been emotional, Warren and many thanks for everything you have done. But please can you now bugger off.


Please don't forget Rob.

Don't forget we were losing to France & England by 30+ points before Warren came. Now a 4 point loss or a 9 point win is disappointing. Have to keep it in perspective.

Need to be far more ambitious than that. Surely we want to be the best in the world? He has it too easy and is not challenged enough. He is untouchable, as are some of his players and it needs to change.

We can be unbelievably good, but it is always too little too late.

[MrK]

My thoughts

Front Row: Id persist with Evans and Lee, but surely Owens has to start, Id also look at Dee/Otten as the 3rd Hooker
Second Row_ AWJ hasnt delivered this 6N, he takes the ball still all the time, that said, Brad didnt do much either, Clart has to start, not bothered whether its Brad or AWJ who partners him
Back Row: Outside of Faletau Id honestly look at options versus Italy, Id like to see Moriaty at 6, Im assuming Sam is ou so Tips at 7. Lydiate and Warburton both need more game time before they come back from injury.

Half Backs - Id be tempted to go Priestland (never thought Id be saying that), but happy to give Biggar a go outside the far superior Webb. Davies is an impact sub at best, his service is shocking.
Centre: Im not sure what options weve got but it just doesnt look offensively affective.
Back 4 - North and Williams stay, we need a solution for the other wing though.,..whens 1/2p back.

Coaches: Something has to change, far too predictable. But it wont.

[Billyfish]

Agree Biggar not been good this season. Don't agree Davies is better than Webb but Davies has dropped off too. I'd be wary though, Webb and Priest were getting much better quicker ball. Baldwin doesn't seem as effective this season, should have given way to Ken a couple of games ago. Awj has been good, not at his best today. Tipuric is too lightweight, need to bring someone else on and agree Warbs and Lyders brought back too early praps. There's no reason to have Cuthbert in the team and no reason to have Anscombe on the bench.

[glamorganmorgan]

Biggar has done some good things this season, but today was not one of his best. Davies was giving him some rubbish to deal with in the first half.
Priestland could start against Yr Eidal , maybe with Webb. AWJ has not looked himself for a couple of games, so Clarts must start , with Brad or AWJ.

if Warbs not able to play we need an open side, not Tips. there are a couple of dynamic 7s around. Ken Owens must start, and bring another hooker in. Where is Hibbo? oh and Cuthbert should never play again.

[Lord Llandaff]

it would appear that North was certainly not in touch and thus we wuz robbed!

[glamorganmorgan]

I think they only started to play when a message went on reminding them that it is Hammy's birthday

[UKHamlet]

I think they only started to play when a message went on reminding them that it is Hammy's birthday

DAT true

[Sourdust]

Being serious for a moment, I'm increasingly starting to think this is indeed "Plan B", such as it is. Stick to Plan A rigidly, don't fuck about or we'll drop you. UNLESS there's 10 minutes to go and we're getting rogered. Then, and only then, you can have a go.

I don't buy the "England were tired" line. It was too sudden (and they're too fit) for that. They didn't let us run at them like that. They weren't suddenly giving us more space and time to pass. We changed tack, and they couldn't live with it.

Of course, it's high risk. We won't always score 14 unanswered points doing that. We'll leave gaps and maybe (horror of horrors!) throw an intercept. That's why it's only acceptable to the coaches when the game is realistically gone, and there's "nothing to lose". The horrible irony is, had Wales realized they had "nothing to lose" at 16-0, it could have been different.

[Graigwen]

That was truly terrible. England deserved to win. Itoje was very good technically.

I'll join the Cuthbert must go campaign, dire today. If more ambitious rearrangements are not going to be made, then simply replacing Cuthbert with Amos would be a start, there is no risk in that against Italy.

.

[Graigwen]

...and Webb looked sharp.

[Sandydragon]

Welsh players who looked the part today:
Owens
Charteris did his thing in the mauls and made some tackles.
Faletau.
Webb ( although benefitting from much quicker ball)
Liam Williams

Add to that, Priestland wasn't bad and Foxy had some nice touches.
Biggar looked off the pace, charge down aside.

The players looked disinterested in the first half. England were well up for it, but we looked out of sorts. I'm not sure it was physical tiredness given the change of tempo in the second half, are the players confused with the new tactics (assuming they exist)?

Whatever the issue is, we could have been 30 points down at the break and wouldn't have had any cause to complain at that.

[Sandydragon]

It has been emotional, Warren and many thanks for everything you have done. But please can you now bugger off.


Please don't forget Rob.

Don't forget we were losing to France & England by 30+ points before Warren came. Now a 4 point loss or a 9 point win is disappointing. Have to keep it in perspective.

That's is a fair point.

But, we were blown away up front in the first half. That was 1990s era stuff. If the English team was as developed as the one of the last nineties, that would have been a slaughter.

[Billyfish]

It has been emotional, Warren and many thanks for everything you have done. But please can you now bugger off.


Please don't forget Rob.

Don't forget we were losing to France & England by 30+ points before Warren came. Now a 4 point loss or a 9 point win is disappointing. Have to keep it in perspective.

That's is a fair point.

But, we were blown away up front in the first half. That was 1990s era stuff. If the English team was as developed as the one of the last nineties, that would have been a slaughter.

Yah. They will be better next year, Ireland will have their full team back, France might even click. We need to kick on or at the very least blood more players so we don't end up with undercooked/off form players on the pitch.

[Lord Llandaff]

It has been emotional, Warren and many thanks for everything you have done. But please can you now bugger off.


Please don't forget Rob.

Don't forget we were losing to France & England by 30+ points before Warren came. Now a 4 point loss or a 9 point win is disappointing. Have to keep it in perspective.

That's is a fair point.

But, we were blown away up front in the first half. That was 1990s era stuff. If the English team was as developed as the one of the last nineties, that would have been a slaughter.

I don't believe it is a fair point.

The French team of any era in the last 50 years bar the last 3 or 4 would have beaten us comfortably 2 weeks ago. As you imply in your own reply the 90s settled England would have scored all the points available to them in that first half and could easily have been 40 points up. In reality we were damn lucky not to be 30 points down at half time yesterday.

Furthermore, I don't think with a coach who has been in place for 8 years and with 4 years left to run, we should be taking any joy out of a narrow defeat. I never did when Henry, Hansen, Ruddock or Jenkins were in charge and I ain't now.

The fact is that yet again, with the best players WE have had in a generation we have been in a position where in order to win we have had to do something miraculous. This is directly the result of a gameplan that is so negative that if things don't go to plan (as with the half, or in Dublin in 2014) we have no answer. In the RWC v England we somehow got out of jail. Yesterday the odds were always against us somehow managing it again and sure enough we failed.

[Sandydragon]

Don't forget we were losing to France & England by 30+ points before Warren came. Now a 4 point loss or a 9 point win is disappointing. Have to keep it in perspective.

That's is a fair point.

But, we were blown away up front in the first half. That was 1990s era stuff. If the English team was as developed as the one of the last nineties, that would have been a slaughter.

I don't believe it is a fair point.

The French team of any era in the last 50 years bar the last 3 or 4 would have beaten us comfortably 2 weeks ago. As you imply in your own reply the 90s settled England would have scored all the points available to them in that first half and could easily have been 40 points up. In reality we were damn lucky not to be 30 points down at half time yesterday.

Furthermore, I don't think with a coach who has been in place for 8 years and with 4 years left to run, we should be taking any joy out of a narrow defeat. I never did when Henry, Hansen, Ruddock or Jenkins were in charge and I ain't now.

The fact is that yet again, with the best players WE have had in a generation we have been in a position where in order to win we have had to do something miraculous. This is directly the result of a gameplan that is so negative that if things don't go to plan (as with the half, or in Dublin in 2014) we have no answer. In the RWC v England we somehow got out of jail. Yesterday the odds were always against us somehow managing it again and sure enough we failed.

In the 90s we had no hope, in any game, against top opposition. We went to Twickenhsm expecting to get slaughtered, and were. Now, yesterday's result is a surprise.

Gatland has brought a level of fitness and discipline we didn't have previously. That's not t deny that this season has been poor, or that our results against SH teams have been abysmal in terms of games won.

I hope yesterday is a wake u call. Let's not pretend that this is he 1990s all over again, but changes must be made.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Welsh players who looked the part today:
Owens
Charteris did his thing in the mauls and made some tackles.
Faletau.
Webb ( although benefitting from much quicker ball)
Liam Williams

Add to that, Priestland wasn't bad and Foxy had some nice touches.
Biggar looked off the pace, charge down aside.

The players looked disinterested in the first half. England were well up for it, but we looked out of sorts. I'm not sure it was physical tiredness given the change of tempo in the second half, are the players confused with the new tactics (assuming they exist)?

Whatever the issue is, we could have been 30 points down at the break and wouldn't have had any cause to complain at that.

If ESPN stats are to be believed, despite my impression at the time, Faletau had a poor game defensively - only 5 tackles and 2 missed tackles. Lydiate was amazing - 17 tackles with 1 miss. Warburton only managed 4, with 1 miss; Tipuric made 4 in half the time Warbs had, with no misses. AWJ was solid with 10 and 1 miss. Biggar mixed with 9 but 4 misses. Both centres had poor days on the tackling front, and Cuthbert had a disasterous 4 made, 4 missed. North didn't seem to be part of our defence with 1 tackle and 2 misses. Overall, a tackle success rate of only 75% was disasterous.

The players didn't seem to be able to match England's intensity for the first 50 minutes, but a missed penalty kick to touch and 2 attacking lineouts lost in the first half were hugely damaging to our attempts to get into the game. And Joubert clearly didn't like what we were doing at the breakdown.

Great credit to Biggar for that amazing charge down which at least gave the players some hope, but the fact that our increasingly dominant play from that point didn't yield us another point (while England got another 6) for 20 minutes was fatal to our efforts. Shame about the incorrect touchline call for North at the end - it would have been an outrageous steal. I imagine if we had been playing Scotland or some other minnow North would have been given the benefit of the doubt.

What turned things around in the last 15-20 minutes? Our substitutes? England's? Did our tactics change? Did we play like we had nothing to lose? Did they take their foot off the gas? Were we fitter?
It's nothing new of course - it's how most of our games with decent oppostion end. I would imagine the most significant factors are an increase in our intensity due to desperation allied with marginally superior fitness.

[UKHamlet]

Webb, Priestland, Tipuric and desperation. We started moving the ball and the gaps appeared. It's not rocket science.

[Hwyl dda]

They did have a man in the bin, not that that means we usually score tries!!!